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Blackrock Foundry - Blackhand

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Blackrock Foundry - Blackhand

Postby aggixx » Tue Feb 03, 2015 9:38 pm

Please use this thread to discuss the Blackhand encounter in Blackrock Foundry. As always, please specify raid difficulty when discussing strats - a Heroic tactic may be completely unfeasible in Mythic.
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Re: Blackrock Foundry - Blackhand

Postby Amitty » Sat Feb 07, 2015 8:43 pm

My favorite fight so far in this expansion.

Phase 1 --- Straightforward DPS check. Avoid the mines and the falling stuff. Use Survival Instincts on the Massive demolition. Roar on the falling debris.
Phase 2 --- Best case scenario you will never leave the boss here. Avoid the mines again. If you are assigned on the group that is going on the balcony (the Shattering Smash ability) make sure to get a long Rip and Rake going on the boss before you are knocked back. Right before you are about to be knocked on the balcony you have to carefully position yourself in the circle to land near a lot of small adds which you will proceed to Rake(Thrash), Interrupt and Stun. Careful with mines on your way back.
Phase 3 --- Do not Feral Charge him (if you play with this talent) when you are knocked back by the Massive Shattering Smash since there will be a crater at the spot. Other than that just stay on him and continue as usual. SI if you get Slag Bomb on you, other than that use them on the Smash.

Good fight for us overall.

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Re: Blackrock Foundry - Blackhand

Postby Kraineth » Sun Feb 08, 2015 6:14 am

Found myself fixated a ton of times by the Siegemaker, not entirely sure what causes this. I think if it swaps fixates (current fixate target dies) it targets the closest player including melee, pretty annoying since the 100% damage taken debuff it gets when kited over a mine is pretty sweet.

Overall a pretty strong fight for feral, we'll see how mythic shakes out though.

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Re: Blackrock Foundry - Blackhand

Postby Xero » Mon Feb 09, 2015 3:25 am

This is THE feral fight.

Our mobility and single target damage is so rewarded.

I think sending a feral up is pretty stupid. On command burst is needed (rets, boomkins, etc.), we're better off tunelling boss I think.

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Re: Blackrock Foundry - Blackhand

Postby Terias » Mon Feb 09, 2015 9:43 am

Amitty wrote:Do not Feral Charge him (if you play with this talent) when you are knocked back by the Massive Shattering Smash since there will be a crater at the spot.


Does the slag crater actually do damage though? I was under the impression that until he casts slag eruption they are dormant.

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Re: Blackrock Foundry - Blackhand

Postby Dysheki » Tue Feb 10, 2015 2:31 am

You can skull bash the knock back in p3. Still used DB for oh shit moments (should only happen in p3, but I've used it in p1 to get away from bombs, seldom in p2 unless the boss gets pulled suddenly without warning to the other side).

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Re: Blackrock Foundry - Blackhand

Postby Tremnen » Tue Feb 10, 2015 2:52 am

who were the lucky ferals that downed this first week. Our kill was illusive. Also the seigemaker in P2 triggered some of my garrosh WAs so i think it is just like the iron star in Mythic Garrosh where it fixates based on proximity from time to time.

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Re: Blackrock Foundry - Blackhand

Postby Terias » Tue Feb 10, 2015 3:50 am

Managed to down it after a couple hours, the key to the fight is really just landing every impale and getting the adds down while minimizing avoidable damage in phase 2. Once we got p2 down it only took 4 attempts.

I feel like p3 is a lot easier than some guilds are making it. It was really easy with the strat we used - we might been able to fit 3 more smashes on the platform by the end of the fight. I watched some videos/streams with guilds doing yolo strats that used the entire platform up in 4 smashes, ours looked very controlled in comparison.

P3 is just moving quickly to minimize damage loss, keeping the bosses movement and placement under control (so he's not running all over while impales and smashes are going out), and leaving room for the bombs when you reposition after a smash. You also don't need to use every single person in every single smash, which is something I saw a lot of guilds doing - bomb debuffs should stay out, the other tank should stay out (taunt on the smash and bring to your new position immediately so people can get in place), and we let a healer and some less mobile dps stay out. Called them in as backups later.

There are a lot of classes that can just instantly teleport/blink/charge/step back to the boss right away.

Good fight for feral, but there's not much for you to do but not step on a bomb and hope everyone else does mechanics properly.

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Re: Blackrock Foundry - Blackhand

Postby aggixx » Tue Feb 10, 2015 6:38 pm

If you're standing right in the center of the boss' hit box when the floor breaks you'll fall directly on top of him every time.
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Re: Blackrock Foundry - Blackhand

Postby Friednug » Fri Feb 13, 2015 1:52 am

Pawkets I saw you post on another thread on mmo-champ regarding a similar issue but it was for Automated Shredders in SoO. I'm hoping you can help me out with this, because I have tried quite a few things and its just not working. Its triggering every impaling throw during p2. Ok so what I am trying to do is write an aura for Blackhand.

Conditions:

1: Event: Mark of Death - Cast Success - Duration 5 seconds. (This is just the simple way I have got to set up Impaling throw)
2: Siegemaker - Unit NOT alive
3: boss1/Blackhand - Health sub 70%

Reasoning for this is we have a melee soak the Impaling if there is no siegemaker out. Sadly, watching unit frames is hard for some of my raid...

This is currently what I have tried.

Spoiler: show
function()
for i=1,GetNumGroupMembers() do
local unit="raid"..i.."target"
if UnitExists(unit) and UnitName(unit) == "Siegemaker" then return false end
end
return true
end


This is another version.

function(_,unit)
return unit and UnitName(unit.."target")=="Siegemaker"
end

This is another version. Which was the one you posted but with the target name changed.

Trigger Type: Custom
Event Type: Event
Event(s): COMBAT_LOG_EVENT_UNFILTERED

function(event, _, cEvent, _, _, _, _, _, _, destName)
if destName == "Siegemaker" then
return true
end
end


With all of them though it is not working the way I'm wanting. Any help you could offer would be appreciated. The part that is tripping me up is of course figuring out how to write - is Siegemaker alive, I want to know if it is NOT alive.

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Re: Blackrock Foundry - Blackhand

Postby inseedious » Mon Feb 16, 2015 2:29 pm

This is a very good fight for us. Blackhand is currently still in progress, and I think my leader is following a wrong tactic, cause we were used to a much better progress in previous contents. He told all dpsers to save 3 min CDs for the beginning of phase 2 (so no inc CDs), in order to make phase 2 smoother and line up the next 3 min CD with the beginning of phase 3, to fully benefit from BL. I understand his reasons and I know phase 1 won't cost healers much mana, so it can last more time without any problem, but I think we reach phase 3 a bit "unloaded", cause we should have reach it at least 30 seconds before, even though phase 2 is lasting the same in both tactics.

I tried to convince him to get rid of that tactic, for the following reasons:
- this fight is balanced taking into account all raid using all 3 big CDs, sacrifying one of them sounds like a "handicap" for a tough fight like this;
- we would however use the third CD, maybe right after BL but still fine;
- at least melees are gonna be 100% attacking the boss in phase 2, so it isn't actually a gain for melees to pop CDs at the beginning of phase 2, when there isn't much to avoid;
- we reach phase 3 with at least 2-3 dead people and we seem to be really tired at that point (I mean resources wise, not mentally)
- (feral specific) my class is so CD dependent that the 3 min CD is part of my rotation, sacrifying one of them means a dps loss of about 5k. In addition, popping my last berserk during BL isn't actually a dps gain, as I would more likely end up capping energy because of phase 3 mechanics.

It would be really useful to read your thoughts about this. I'm pretty sure I gave him good reasons, also because all Blackhand kills I've seen don't use this tactic.

Edit: Blackhand down, but still interested in your opinions.
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Re: Blackrock Foundry - Blackhand

Postby Monopedia » Mon Feb 23, 2015 9:15 am

Just wondering how correct I am to not be part of the knock-back group in p2 on heroic.
Clearly we are far from the best suited for this and the raid has far better options to do so. My raid has much better options, however I'm trying to explain and justify why I should not be going up, especially to a Sub Rogue who feels that even as Feral I should be killing the platform adds also.

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Re: Blackrock Foundry - Blackhand

Postby Amitty » Mon Feb 23, 2015 10:02 am

Both Feral and Sub Rogue should be on the boss at all times. Warrior, Ret, DK, WW and Boomkin are better options for the Soldiers.

You can tell them that damage wise it's more beneficial to the raid group if you stay on the boss since your single target is stronger than that of other melees which have better ramp up time and can easily deal with the adds on the balcony. But they can still choose to ignore that and send you up there to do the dirty work.

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Re: Blackrock Foundry - Blackhand

Postby Dwade » Mon Mar 02, 2015 11:08 am

Well my guild disbanded this week so I was brought in for a trial in another guild on this fight, was my first time attempting it so it was kind of a trial by fire if you will. I love this fight, I feel like the mechanics of it compliment us very well. Lots of self-healing lets the healers basically ignore you outside of a few instances. All bombs and such are easily avoided thanks to our high movement speed. That skull bash tip from Dysheki and the tip about standing right in the middle for the first fall from Aggixx were very useful. I was on the boss the entire time, a few of the people wanted me to go up as some sort of trialing rite, but the RL had enough sense to immediately tell them feral aoe was too weak for it.
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Re: Blackrock Foundry - Blackhand

Postby Zarzul » Tue Mar 03, 2015 9:03 am

Huge Gz, with BH Myhtic kill, Stenhaldi. Hope you share ure POV soon, and drop a tip or two.

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Re: Blackrock Foundry - Blackhand

Postby Zekke » Tue Mar 03, 2015 8:26 pm

Zarzul wrote:Huge Gz, with BH Myhtic kill, Stenhaldi. Hope you share ure POV soon, and drop a tip or two.


Second, also specifically if you did balcony duty how that was for feral. Dasima made it sound like you did balconies on MMO-champ.
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Re: Blackrock Foundry - Blackhand

Postby Stenhaldi » Sun Mar 08, 2015 6:07 am

Some remarks.

Feral can solo a balcony wave on mythic with incarnation/berserk/nature's vigil. Actually just incarnation (without berserk) is usually enough, but I didn't want any chance of failing. You generally can't solo a group in less than 22 seconds, though, so you can't be going on every second smash if you're planning to solo one. Also, you'll want to use survival instincts to survive the smash if it's just you and a tank splitting it, but make sure you still have a SI charge for the exploding siegemaker explosion.

Interrupt/stun the iron soldiers to delay them leveling up. They level in 12 casts (28 seconds). Level up increases their current health by 50% (so if they're already low it's not a big deal).

Cenarion Ward doesn't work on the balconies -- the incendiary shot damage doesn't trigger it. Too bad, as it would have been an amazing survival tool in phase 1.

If you're melee on mythic, you should be going to balconies or baiting the mortars (or both). Ranged are much better than melee for boss/siegemaker damage in phase 2.

In phase 3, you can survive a smash (with 3 other people soaking it) without cooldowns if you're topped -- with ninth life glyphed it'll do about 260k followed by 38k per second. So you can take a rogue's place if something happens. Note if you skull bash back you'll take another 70k damage from the molten slag.

Coordinate stampeding roars in phase 3 to help the raid soak falling debris (it comes every 40 seconds). You can't solo it yourself without external cooldowns, though (770k base damage).

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Re: Blackrock Foundry - Blackhand

Postby artsdruid » Mon Mar 09, 2015 11:44 am

i watched your vid stenhaldi, thought it was interesting that you could solo the balconies, gonna have to try it this upcoming week on heroic at least. pretty nifty

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Re: Blackrock Foundry - Blackhand

Postby Gwindor » Tue Mar 10, 2015 4:48 am

My guild has told me that either I need to level/gear a rogue alt, or switch to boomkin for Mythic Blackhand. My RL flat out told me that zero feral druids have been in for the fight, and that we'll be running only 3 rogues for melee.

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Re: Blackrock Foundry - Blackhand

Postby Hamwich » Tue Mar 10, 2015 9:31 am

For Heroic Difficulty,

While this is a typical single target fight, the exception being if you are on the stands, because of the heavy movement involved, is it better to roll high mastery / multi-strike, or do you treat it like a pure single target fight and use higher crit items?

I have both pole arms, both acidic jaws and the helm off maidens, and can go any where from 38% Crit / 65% mastery / 20% Multi to 35% Crit and 72% Mastery / 17% multi....

Seems like the heavier mastery build is better, but haven't successfully killed him yet...

Your thoughts?

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Re: Blackrock Foundry - Blackhand

Postby Tinderhoof » Tue Mar 10, 2015 12:40 pm

Gwindor wrote:My guild has told me that either I need to level/gear a rogue alt, or switch to boomkin for Mythic Blackhand. My RL flat out told me that zero feral druids have been in for the fight, and that we'll be running only 3 rogues for melee.

While I won't suggest you call your RL an idiot I suggest you link him Stenhaldi's PoV kill of Mythic Blackhand.

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Re: Blackrock Foundry - Blackhand

Postby Gwindor » Tue Mar 10, 2015 3:27 pm

@Tinderhoof Linked video. Was told that Stenhaldi is selfish and probably hurt progression by playing feral over switching to moonkin or playing a better class for the fight. Started leveling a rogue today...

Edit: I guess one of the large reasons is that we don't have any rogues at all in our raid comp, and supposedly you "must" have three. Myself and two of the other melee were designated to level and play rogues.

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Re: Blackrock Foundry - Blackhand

Postby Amitty » Tue Mar 10, 2015 7:52 pm

:lol:

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Re: Blackrock Foundry - Blackhand

Postby Eltur » Tue Mar 10, 2015 10:14 pm

Gwindor wrote:@Tinderhoof Linked video. Was told that Stenhaldi is selfish and probably hurt progression by playing feral over switching to moonkin or playing a better class for the fight. Started leveling a rogue today...

Edit: I guess one of the large reasons is that we don't have any rogues at all in our raid comp, and supposedly you "must" have three. Myself and two of the other melee were designated to level and play rogues.

:roll:

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Re: Blackrock Foundry - Blackhand

Postby RareBeast » Mon Apr 27, 2015 12:59 pm

We are working on Heroic Blackhand and I had a very frustrating raid tonight! Everytime one of the tanks took the marked for death and got knocked back, then the other tank got knocked to the balcony, the boss would turn around and smack me before the first tank could get back in range to taunt. Died 5 times in 6 attempts to boss agro and I am sure the tanks must be doing something wrong or I would have read about similar issues.

Does anyone have any insight on how the tanks could handle this without Blackhand turning me into kitty paste?

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