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Blackrock Foundry - Blackhand

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Re: Blackrock Foundry - Blackhand

Postby Varn » Wed Apr 29, 2015 4:03 am

Yes, actually, about the kitty paste. Let yourself (and any other melee lucky enough to be tunneling him) get knocked up in the first or second smash; and jump right back down again.
The deal is, the smash resets threat to zero, which is happening to your tanks. At least the way my guild does it, the tanks lose control of him for a second or two fairly frequently after a smash; but if you've been hit, the highest aggro person will then be a ranged, and they have more than enough time to taunt before he hits them.

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Re: Blackrock Foundry - Blackhand

Postby RareBeast » Wed Apr 29, 2015 8:59 am

Excellent - thanks for that advice! Was getting so discouraging playing the fight (I feel) really well and still dieing continually while we are wiping to mechanics that are nothing to do with melee. Even if I do go up on balconies it is not a particularly difficult fight for melee.

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Re: Blackrock Foundry - Blackhand

Postby Dysheki » Wed Apr 29, 2015 2:20 pm

I've never had this problem with our tanks but remember prowl during incarnation is a threat drop as well. Using that at the end of incarnation should help.

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Re: Blackrock Foundry - Blackhand

Postby RareBeast » Wed Apr 29, 2015 8:33 pm

Another fantastic point. Threat has been such a non-issue for so long now that threat drops just haven't been on my radar for so long.....

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Re: Blackrock Foundry - Blackhand

Postby Itharius » Sun May 03, 2015 3:20 pm

I'm going to be going up on the 4th smash (once we actually reach it) to clear out balcony as feral druid, on mythic difficulty. Any tips? I will have berserk/incarnation up. I'm thinking I'll just pop berserk/incarnation and rake + shred + shred + ferocious bite on each target, since they have 245k health a piece, rather than doing the much more iffy lunar inspiration/rake/rip strategy where you rely on dots to kill the iron soldiers.

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Re: Blackrock Foundry - Blackhand

Postby Nayni » Sun May 03, 2015 3:44 pm

Itharius wrote:I'm going to be going up on the 4th smash (once we actually reach it) to clear out balcony as feral druid, on mythic difficulty. Any tips? I will have berserk/incarnation up. I'm thinking I'll just pop berserk/incarnation and rake + shred + shred + ferocious bite on each target, since they have 245k health a piece, rather than doing the much more iffy lunar inspiration/rake/rip strategy where you rely on dots to kill the iron soldiers.


Land
Pop Dash
Pop Inc
Rake
Rake
Berserk
Rake
TF
Rake

You rake all of them, once if u hit 5 CP you blow FB on the one ur one and continue

Turn around and clean up the ones that are still alive. (Most of the time just raking them another time is enough since the stun will stop them from lvl'ing up and the dot wiill finish then).

If you do it properly, u'll have 6 seconds of incar left to get back to the boss and rake it for full dmg.
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Re: Blackrock Foundry - Blackhand

Postby Tinderhoof » Mon May 04, 2015 2:42 pm

I would also recommend taking both NV, and CW and use both. You can never have to much healing on yourself when you are up there.

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Re: Blackrock Foundry - Blackhand

Postby TheLOOGE » Mon May 04, 2015 2:56 pm

Incoming balcony damage doesn't trigger CW for whatever reason. You can still opt to take Ward for other points in the fight, but if you take it expecting it to come through for you on balconies, you're going to have a bad time. This is one of the few instances I would take YG over CW...

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Re: Blackrock Foundry - Blackhand

Postby Tinderhoof » Mon May 04, 2015 3:10 pm

YG doesn't heal enough often enough to actually do anything meaningful in the time it takes. CW can actually save your life during the 1st and 3rd phases. NV regardless anytime you are using cooldowns.

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Re: Blackrock Foundry - Blackhand

Postby msrobinson » Mon May 04, 2015 8:50 pm

How do we feel about renewal then? If CW doesn't proc in p2, then we are looking for a "holy shit save me" button in phase 1 and phase 3. If we are being forced to use cenarion ward on CD, then maybe there is a problem with our healers. I mean, if we are getting that close to dying more than once every 2 minutes, then there might be a problem with the healers.

Renewal has the advantage of being off global as well, so we don't risk losing any damage from being forced to make the decision of using an ability at an opportune time vs dying.

It's an underused ability, and I'm just looking to be a hipster and see if it has any merit.

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Re: Blackrock Foundry - Blackhand

Postby TheLOOGE » Tue May 05, 2015 4:16 pm

But you're not really being forced to use CW on cd the ENTIRE fight. CW can be useful on this fight certainly, but had to correct the record that CW could be used on balconies -- it won't trigger from damage taken on balconies and thus is not useful exclusively in that regard.

Renewal, however, is still a loser talent I think. I can only think of maybe one fight in the entirety of Foundry where Renewal might be 'ok.' Flamebender's Firestorm. Even then, Ward can still do more healing than Renewal if the HoT crits twice or three times, which isn't far fetched considering we're running with ~40% crit these days. And it's only on a 30 second cooldown. Yes it's on the GCD, but like the rest of the Feral playstyle, it requires some degree of forethought and proper usage.

Going back to p1, p3 Ward usages -- any ancillary healing you do to yourself is always a plus in my book. No reason not to pop it for every demolition.

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Re: Blackrock Foundry - Blackhand

Postby msrobinson » Tue May 05, 2015 5:06 pm

Fair point. Using cenarion ward in each demo phase is certainly a boon. I think Renewal might be worth taking if you are only taking cenarion ward for a moment of oh shit burst healing. If ever black hand comes to that (y don't need cenarion ward during demo), then perhaps renewal might overtake it.

Depends on your reasoning behind the pick, as always, I suppose. Good insight. Thank you.

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Re: Blackrock Foundry - Blackhand

Postby ecolove » Sun May 10, 2015 5:18 am

A question that has been on my mind in regards to BH mythic:

Doing the balcony in phase 2 you're stunned in air and can only pop INC when you've landed on the stands (effectively losing a GCD if you land close to mobs).
Do you INC before going up there (as a result getting improved rake on the boss before you take the smash) or do you wait and pop it when you're out of the stun effect (thereby getting maximum relevant uptime of INC). Also, if you're switching weapons for mastery proc: do you swap before going or do you swap when landing on the balcony?

We killed the boss a while ago, but I will not rest until I have found my optimal way of performing on this fight.

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Re: Blackrock Foundry - Blackhand

Postby Alteredbeast » Thu Jun 04, 2015 1:44 pm

We killed this last night!! Wish I would have read your post sooner Ecolvo. I was on smash 4 on the far balcony and could not get back in time to hit the boss with rake buffed with inc. I think casting it right before the smash and getting a buffed rake on BH makes perfect sense. Good call

I was having trouble with leaving the odd one up with a few hp. I found saving my trigger ensured a full balcony clear every time. Especially useful as we didn't have anybody going up for smash 6 and so needed a full balcony clear on my smash.
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Re: Blackrock Foundry - Blackhand

Postby Nich » Thu Jun 11, 2015 12:10 pm

Got our Heroic kill a few hours ago, after perhaps 40-50 wipes (far too many being p1 or p2 brainfarts).

Because of our raid comp, I took LI and went up on balconies for p2 (ret pally went with a tank on the other side). Rake, moonfire on each add and then rip whenever I had 5cp. Saved SI, tried to keep rejuv up, HT on myself unless an elemental shaman came for the trip. I think I maybe used thrash for any clumps of 3-4 adds together? Saved my 3min cds for boss use (out of the gate in p1, when up about a minute into p2, and towards the latter part of p3 after the raid had used hero).

I'd be interested in seeing how things go if I dropped LI and the dps warrior went up instead of me, but I'm not sure there's enough trust in a warrior who complains about lack of mobility at the best of times, even spamming victory rush.

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Re: Blackrock Foundry - Blackhand

Postby Alteredbeast » Thu Jun 11, 2015 1:32 pm

IMHO rip isn't very useful up there. I much preferred FB to kill them before they leveled up.
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Re: Blackrock Foundry - Blackhand

Postby versy » Fri Jun 12, 2015 12:15 pm

I was asked to go feral on blackhand over balance..i was allowed to just tunnel blackhand all the way through and when i looked at the kill log i ranked 10,i nearly fell off my seat,so dont let anyone tell you that feral is not "viable" over balance on blackhand hc and mythic..

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Re: Blackrock Foundry - Blackhand

Postby Nich » Sat Jun 13, 2015 1:46 am

Alteredbeast wrote:IMHO rip isn't very useful up there. I much preferred FB to kill them before they leveled up.
I was really only multi-dotting up there. Rake and moonfire seemed to basically kill them, so rip plus rake meant more energy for the next moonfire etc, but I see your point.

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Re: Blackrock Foundry - Blackhand

Postby TheLOOGE » Sat Jun 13, 2015 3:17 pm

versy wrote:I was asked to go feral on blackhand over balance..i was allowed to just tunnel blackhand all the way through and when i looked at the kill log i ranked 10,i nearly fell off my seat,so dont let anyone tell you that feral is not "viable" over balance on blackhand hc and mythic..


Yes, months and months later, and numerous ilvls higher than the content was designed for, you are right. Any spec, comp, or quite frankly, number of raiders will be "viable" at this point in the content cycle.

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Re: Blackrock Foundry - Blackhand

Postby Kojiyama » Sun Jun 14, 2015 2:11 am

Right now, I actually feel like Ferals are pretty decent for this fight due to the way the burn phases are structured and since it is very easy to solo a balcony as Feral.

The weakness of Feral here is that they have no immunities to soak any mechanics with and Balance can handle two balconies very easily.

I ended up being Balance (/grr Khellan! :D) although we compressed our strat and I ended up only going on a single balcony. Probably could have gone Feral in the end, but didn't want to risk re-learning the fight at that stage. However, for learning and flexibility, Balance was better because I could be backup on more balconies and had the option to go up on the 6th or 7th even if we didn't use it.

Feral DPS is strong in P3 since you will have your cooldowns up, and I think that is a big strength. However, P2 is really the meat of the fight. I'd probably take a Feral over a lot of other melee DPS, but it still won't be high on the priority list for most raid leaders. One seems reasonable to fill in the balcony gap left by the initial jump down and two Balance druids if you can't field 3, though. Ferals are still probably one of the best classes to send up as a filler balcony clear.

Just tunneling the boss doesn't really sound super useful for progression, though. At that point, you may as well just bring another Hunter/SP/Rogue who can soak cinders or clear bombs.
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