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Hellfire Citadel - Gorefiend

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Hellfire Citadel - Gorefiend

Postby aggixx » Tue Jun 23, 2015 7:33 pm

Please use this thread to discuss the Gorefiend encounter in Hellfire Citadel. As always, please specify raid difficulty when discussing strats - a Heroic tactic may be completely unfeasible in Mythic.
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Re: Hellfire Citadel - Gorefiend

Postby Dwade » Wed Jun 24, 2015 9:29 am

Came close to killing this dude but we ran out of raid time. Displacer is great for running the void zones out and I took typhoon and vortex for add control in the death realm. Unfortunately our 3min cds are not lining up with the boosted damage phase, wonder if it would be worth it to hold off until then.
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Re: Hellfire Citadel - Gorefiend

Postby Ikkman » Wed Jun 24, 2015 1:17 pm

Killed last night... During his weakened state I was normally getting about the last 10 seconds of it with CDs up... im considering keeping the same use CDs at begin for burst then not use CDs as soon as they come up again... Pop 2nd pot and CDs in 2nd weakened phase with lust and GG.

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Re: Hellfire Citadel - Gorefiend

Postby Tumpor » Thu Jun 25, 2015 4:11 am

In Heroic it's definitely worth it holding off CD's for the second phase. You can use any 2 minute CD's because they will be up again the first time 2nd phase hits (in ferals case that would be trinkets and TF of course). After that the 2nd phase reoccurs every 3 minutes. Feral has such high burst that the reduced damage in phase 1 doesn't hurt us as much.

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Re: Hellfire Citadel - Gorefiend

Postby Niff » Thu Jun 25, 2015 10:00 am

Did this boss yesterday in heroic mode safed cds for first feast phase and they were rdy for the next feast phase. I dont think it is a problem to safe your cds in the first 2 mins you will sky rocking the dmg meters at the feast phase with cds+trinkets+ht+pot

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Re: Hellfire Citadel - Gorefiend

Postby Alteredbeast » Thu Jun 25, 2015 12:11 pm

Doh... I Displacer Beast into the water under the boss one pull, then off the side when dropping a debuff the next pull. Both kill you so be careful...
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Re: Hellfire Citadel - Gorefiend

Postby Kraineth » Thu Jun 25, 2015 12:49 pm

Dwade wrote:Came close to killing this dude but we ran out of raid time. Displacer is great for running the void zones out and I took typhoon and vortex for add control in the death realm. Unfortunately our 3min cds are not lining up with the boosted damage phase, wonder if it would be worth it to hold off until then.


They actually line up decently well, you get 10seconds at the end of the first phase and full duration on the second.

The burn phase is not actually at 2mins and then every 3mins, it is more like 2:10 and then every 3:10 because of the delay during his transition.

I would only recommend saving CDs on the pull if it won't cost you a CD usage, which will be extremely difficult, and almost guaranteed in mythic if there are 3 burn phases.

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Re: Hellfire Citadel - Gorefiend

Postby aggixx » Fri Jun 26, 2015 10:36 am

When the Feast of Souls phase is ending it can be better to bite than reapply Rip to maximize benefit from the vulnerability.

Seed of Creation will be clearly the best trinket for this fight. Its also likely that 4pT17 is superior to 4pT18 (especially when using Seed) even at a significant item level cost.
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Re: Hellfire Citadel - Gorefiend

Postby Itharius » Sun Jun 28, 2015 3:53 pm

aggixx wrote:When the Feast of Souls phase is ending it can be better to bite than reapply Rip to maximize benefit from the vulnerability.

Seed of Creation will be clearly the best trinket for this fight. Its also likely that 4pT17 is superior to 4pT18 (especially when using Seed) even at a significant item level cost.

I can't imagine a scenario where feral isn't the best damage specialization in the game for this fight. The synergy of a 50 second berserk with a 1 minute burn phase is unreal.

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Re: Hellfire Citadel - Gorefiend

Postby Kojiyama » Mon Jun 29, 2015 1:28 pm

Kraineth wrote:They actually line up decently well, you get 10seconds at the end of the first phase and full duration on the second.

The burn phase is not actually at 2mins and then every 3mins, it is more like 2:10 and then every 3:10 because of the delay during his transition.

I would only recommend saving CDs on the pull if it won't cost you a CD usage, which will be extremely difficult, and almost guaranteed in mythic if there are 3 burn phases.


I'm not totally sure this is accurate. From the logs last night, Gorefiend cast Feast of Souls at 2:02.968 and the buff faded at 3:02.983. On Heroic on Tuesday, he gains the first buff at 2:03-3:03 and the second buff at 5:12-6:10.

Pretty sure that holding 3 minute cooldowns at the start of the fight is the right thing to do here, but 2 minute trinkets are fine to use on the pull.

Even if you did get 10 seconds as you mentioned, you would have to waste a GCD during Feast to use Incarnation and wouldn't really get enough value out of the first set of cooldowns to justify using it on the pull IMO.

Additionally, the first set of Shadow of Death doesn't go out until around 2-2.5s into the fight which means if you pop your cooldowns at the start you might 'die' 7-8s into the fight and waste a big chunk of your cooldown period anyway. If you wait 2.5s until the Shadow of Death goes out, you definitely are not going to be able to get any value out of 3 minutes for the first Feast, even if it was delayed by 10 seconds.
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Re: Hellfire Citadel - Gorefiend

Postby Nayni » Tue Jul 07, 2015 5:51 pm

Mythic:

- Feral is really good at burning.
- Tier 17 is by far the best option to wear, the 4piece does massive amounts of damage (reference from a night of wiping: http://i.imgur.com/tKhUY0H.jpg)
- Take Displacer for sudden movements (Touch of doom, fast movement in the shadow realm)
- Use Survival Instinct wisely, u'll probably need atleast one during Feast.
- Nature's Vigil can do alot of healing during Feast.
- I'm currently using Bash and Mass Root to control Shadowy Constructs inside the realm to stop them from going out or delaying them as good as possible.


Overall pretty good boss for feral I'd say, not super melee friendly, but Feral defo fits in any raid comp and has good stuff to offer.
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Re: Hellfire Citadel - Gorefiend

Postby aggixx » Fri Jul 10, 2015 4:02 am

I disagree, not a good fight for feral at all on Mythic IMO. The damage you do to the boss over any other class does approximately nothing to help you kill the boss because he will die during the 3rd Feast no matter what, and we're abysmal (pretty much the worst spec barring irrelevant ones) at dealing with any of the adds but the Gorebound Spirit. Unless you're facing the enrage somehow I think you could make a strong case for feral being the worst spec for this fight.
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Re: Hellfire Citadel - Gorefiend

Postby Nayni » Fri Jul 10, 2015 5:24 am

aggixx wrote:I disagree, not a good fight for feral at all on Mythic IMO. The damage you do to the boss over any other class does approximately nothing to help you kill the boss because he will die during the 3rd Feast no matter what, and we're abysmal (pretty much the worst spec barring irrelevant ones) at dealing with any of the adds but the Gorebound Spirit. Unless you're facing the enrage somehow I think you could make a strong case for feral being the worst spec for this fight.


I'm doing as much damage to constructs when going inside as any other melee (or even ranged at times), while having 2 really good control abliities to stop them from going out. And breaking people out of the realm is just a specific job that's for our DK/Warrior anyway.

Not the mention you can actualy off-heal the healing adds inside aswell if you really want to. It's a very little contribution but every little bit helps :)
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Re: Hellfire Citadel - Gorefiend

Postby aggixx » Fri Jul 10, 2015 5:50 am

You seem to be forgetting about the Gorebound adds, that's what I was talking about. The Essences, Constructs, and finishing off of Corrupted Souls are the primary hurdles of the fight, and we're terrible at assisting with all 3 of those things outside, and average at dealing with them inside.
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Re: Hellfire Citadel - Gorefiend

Postby Grizzlebee » Mon Jul 13, 2015 1:51 pm

Aggixx, about T17 4p being superior, is that because your direct damage abilities deal double damage which then adds Gushing Wounds at that doubled direct damage, which then again gets doubled? Effectively increasing Gushing Wounds damage by 400% compared to Gushing Wounds with no damage modifier?

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Re: Hellfire Citadel - Gorefiend

Postby aggixx » Mon Jul 13, 2015 3:49 pm

Nope, its just strong because you're getting the entire benefit of the set bonus during the vulnerability phase. This sums it up pretty well:
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/wX ... &target=24
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Re: Hellfire Citadel - Gorefiend

Postby susaki » Tue Jul 28, 2015 4:55 am

So you'd still go for the t17 4pc even without seed on this fight?

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Re: Hellfire Citadel - Gorefiend

Postby Dysheki » Tue Jul 28, 2015 12:55 pm

I haven't really paid much attention to feast dps at this point. With the gear and rings available feast dps should be your last concern. Continue to improve add management and corrupted souls to down the boss on mythic.

P.S. I hate this fight.

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Re: Hellfire Citadel - Gorefiend

Postby Kraineth » Tue Jul 28, 2015 7:14 pm

The only thing that is going to make or break kills on this boss now that gear levels are higher is add damage. Your raiders should be calling out if high/full hp adds will be coming out and you should 100% be swapping to them barring any specific assignments (on progression my priority was killing the first gorebound add of each phase and then killing essences and then constructs)

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Re: Hellfire Citadel - Gorefiend

Postby Nephera » Thu Jul 30, 2015 3:23 pm

Old tier was actually an about 20-25k increase for me (even though my usual gear is 725, 720, 716 and 710 ilvl), so I think it's worth it (in case something goes wrong - we actually had a wipe on the third feast once, lol). Playing with the new one didn't seem to make it any easier to deal damage to adds so I figure it doesn't hurt to wear the old tier to get boss down more.

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Re: Hellfire Citadel - Gorefiend

Postby Kojiyama » Fri Jul 31, 2015 8:13 pm

We're just starting progression on this and I have to say I'm a little unconvinced that I should be optimizing for the damage phases.

There is pretty much no way for the T18 set bonuses to not help with all the add control elements, as they just flat-out give you the potential to have more energy to deal with them. (Besides the sheer fact that you are just going to plain do less damage on the adds by using lower ilevel gear in 4 slots even if you never, ever get a OoC proc at the right time.)

Given that the T17 4pc does absolutely nothing to help deal with the hardest part of the fight, it feels slightly wrong to me to use it even if it results in more overall DPS. I feel like I would need to be in a situation where my raid was very consistently getting to the 3rd damage phase with zero issues whatsoever and not having enough damage in the tank to convince me to go that route.

I still need to get some more pulls in on the boss to make a determination, but given that many other classes are doing the same thing (changing out optimal single-target damage for add control spec options) it seems odd to do the opposite.
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Re: Hellfire Citadel - Gorefiend

Postby aggixx » Mon Aug 03, 2015 1:01 am

Yep, that's a reasonable perspective. It depends how much you want to value add damage vs boss damage, and if you're not valuing boss damage at all then clearly t18 is the better option.
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Re: Hellfire Citadel - Gorefiend

Postby Nephera » Mon Aug 03, 2015 6:03 am

That is indeed true, but as the only adds we had problem with were the players souls (and those had people assigned to them that were doing so for the whole fight), I saw no reason to go that way. If the fight is executed properly the ranged should just basically have to execute the skeletons and perhaps essences too. The only add you'd have to worry about is one big add for every phase, since the other one dies from cleave during the feast. Even then, you have no guarantee you'll be up there and not in the stomach, so it shouldn't be so dependant on you (unless you really have problems with tanks dying, but it shouldn't be too much of a problem if they use raids external CDs then). About the adds inside, I had no problem at all with them, dotting them +autoattacks and some shreds, even when they were close (as we have typhoon and a stun for every time we're in).

Then again, there's like four hunters in my guild, a shadow priest and a warlock. We also had two boomkins popping their CDs inside the belly realm and a rotation of people coming in there to help with the adds.

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Re: Hellfire Citadel - Gorefiend

Postby claircy » Mon Aug 03, 2015 5:22 pm

Got my first day to progress on this boss on mythic as feral (used to play boomie for it) today, and I don't think we're too bad to bring for it, though ofc alot of other classes is better with their executes to handle/help with mirrors and skeletons which we aren't that amazing on. I like to play with Wild Charge, Typhoon, Mighty Bash, the wild charge so I can daze the skeletons inside once, or even charge to a skeleton almost going out on high hp, and then using typhoon to get more time to bring the hp on it down. That our ST combo point builder (shred) also slows the enemy for 50% is great, for outside and inside imo. I usually rake + shred the skeletons with medium-high hp assuming they're not too far from boss so they get slowed if they aren't already, and same thing inside the belly. I also try to stand on the edge of Gorefiends hitbox, which is pretty large, and assuming no ranged are too close, so that ranged can more quickly run to me if I get shared fate and vice versa, and if I have to run to place a Touch of Doom it'll be less travel time since I don't play with Displacer Beast.

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Re: Hellfire Citadel - Gorefiend

Postby Tremnen » Mon Aug 17, 2015 1:07 am

What trinkets should I be looking at using on this fight? (progressing on Mythic). I have access to basically every trinket you can have before you get to it besides coil. Assuming I take seed; Is beating heart going to out perform all the other options from this tier because of its reliability and syncing with ring / feasts phases? Soulcap seems like it would be best but its soo tricky to use on this fight I'd rather avoid it I think. Mythic Mirror seems like a good option but It will be useless downstairs and basically just flat agi upstairs and boss damage.

Edit: Also how much does the double proc trick for Censer/Trigger play a role in whether they should be used?

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