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Madness of Deathwing

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Madness of Deathwing

Postby Qbear » Mon Nov 28, 2011 3:49 pm

Please keep all discussion of the 10/25m LFR, Norm, and Heroic difficulties to the Madness of Deathwing encounter limited to this thread only.

Thank you.

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Re: Madness of Deathwing

Postby Serringa » Tue Nov 29, 2011 5:11 pm

All of the hitboxes and shred angles seem very forgiving. The limb tentacles have a 360 degree shred angle, as far as I could tell. Target switching across the blistering tentacles (assuming Alexstraza not up) was a bit of a pain, but their hitboxes are bigger than they appear.

Anticipating the target switches and leaving behind a fresh set of dots makes feral reasonably strong on this fight. The bloods are pretty easy to swipe spam.

On PTR, 25 normal seemed to be tuned much harder than 10 normal. I suspect it will be fixed on live as the difference was pretty obvious, at least to my guildies.

Berserk doesn't line up with the same phase on the 4 platforms. I used it on limb tentacle on pull -> on mutated corruption -> during bloods -> cataclysm burn phase -> after first set of adds in p2. Your mileage may vary depending on raid DPS and PTR to live tuning...

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Re: Madness of Deathwing

Postby Dysheki » Thu Dec 01, 2011 1:28 am

Still verrrrrrrrry tightly tuned on 25 man. Ended up 24 manning it though when we had a holy pally go ret . . . never switched gear so he was holy gear in ret spec and rage logged on the last attempt of the night and we killed it, lol.
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Re: Madness of Deathwing

Postby pureonyx » Thu Dec 01, 2011 10:31 pm

Did anyone else have trouble with not being able to use Feral Charge at all on any platform?

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Re: Madness of Deathwing

Postby Terias » Thu Dec 01, 2011 11:27 pm

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Re: Madness of Deathwing

Postby Konungr » Fri Dec 02, 2011 12:06 am

Think about it logically, have we EVER been able to FC something on a platform this expansion? Magmaw, Sinestra, Ragnaros all tell me that this is not an uncommon occurrence.

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Re: Madness of Deathwing

Postby pureonyx » Fri Dec 02, 2011 12:23 am

Atleast on those others you could FC other adds!

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Re: Madness of Deathwing

Postby Terias » Fri Dec 02, 2011 4:00 pm

I fell asleep after we downed this on 10, forgot to post something I noticed.

You can in fact FC the adds in the last phase. Both the big guys and the tentacles.

Nothing else in this fight appears to be chargable.

Some other notes for anyone interested in advice on the fight:

You can use berserk on every single platform if you pop it early on the first one, and pretty much on CD after that. It lined up so perfectly, it popped back up right after we were pushing deathwing after the first set of adds. We were able to 2 heal the fight - the final phase was incredibly healer intensive, every 5% deathwings raid damage goes up dramatically. Rotate your CD's and your dream cooldown. Took 2 sets of adds in the final phase for my raid to kill him.

Our kill order was Red -> Green -> Blue -> Yellow.

This meant we were able to kill the bolt each time. When blue drops, the regenerating bloods get very hard to aoe down. We weren't able to aoe them down until after I started saving berserk + tf for them, sped up the final phase a lot for us.

If you have competent dps at all, make them kill the blistering tentacles - was not fun tab swapping to mobs that took 3 hits to kill, and our paladin was a lot happier with one less melee running out of the stack.

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Re: Madness of Deathwing

Postby Serringa » Fri Dec 02, 2011 6:28 pm

You can FC the meteor (Elementium Bolt) once it lands. I didn't test FC while it was moving.

I didn't test FC on the regenerative bloods but I suspect it will work too.

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Re: Madness of Deathwing

Postby Terias » Fri Dec 02, 2011 8:39 pm

Unlike the rest of the fight the bloods are not shreddable from the front also.

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Re: Madness of Deathwing

Postby pureonyx » Fri Dec 02, 2011 10:55 pm

Our kill order for 25m was Green, Yellow, Red, Blue. We left Kalecgos alive last in order to be able to aoe down the bloods each time. It's a shame when most swaps are done between the Wing/Arm tentacles and mutated corruptions, yet you cant FC between those.

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Re: Madness of Deathwing

Postby Lorclonil » Mon Dec 05, 2011 12:28 pm

We did this fight on 25 man in this order: Ysera>Nozdormu>Alexstrasza>Kalecgo's

We were having some major issues with the regenerative blood on the 4th platform when we saved Alexstrasza for last and so went back to our original order (shown above.)

Frame rate was a huge issue for me on this fight (I was sitting between 12 and 17 fps for most of it when I normally run in the 30-45 range for 25 man fights.)

Some notes:

Stacking on melee, grouping the regenerative blood together and beginning AoE after the first health regen (10 seconds in) seemed to allow us to burn them without issue.

Single target the blistering tentacles; swipe doesn't seem to work (journal says they are immune to AoE.) Downing Alexstrasza 3rd means you have to kill these tentacles on the 4th platform; We found this easier than having to deal with the Regenerative blood without Kalecgo's buff.

Depending on how quickly you're group is able to down the platforms, Berserk may not be able to be used on each one. I decided against using it on the 3rd and used it at the very start of the 4th (so that it'd be up shortly in to phase 2.)

On phase 2, look for a group of Elementium Fragments (4 can usually be found within swipe range.) Use the Ysera ability Dream to mitigate damage if the Fragments are able to get off a Shrapnel cast.

Usually best for the raid to call to stack close to the wing/arm tentacle when the Elementium Bolt is getting ready to land without Nozdormu's time zone. Feral can charge in just after it lands to begin DPSing it. Might want to toss out Barkskin (and/or SI) to help mitigate the pulsing damage. Make sure to have SI up for phase 2, though, so you might want to not use it on platform 4.

Phase 2 ended a little weird for us. DW had around 1.5-2% health left when, boom, it finished. (This after 3 wipes at between 3 and 4%.)

25 man seems much more tightly tuned than 10 man. 4% wipe the first 10 man attempt after only getting to phase 2 once on 25 man the first day on it. Ended up not downing it on 10 man because of the burning blood bug (stacking twice per second instead of once very two seconds) kicking in.

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Re: Madness of Deathwing

Postby Leafkiller » Mon Dec 05, 2011 6:41 pm

We did this on 10 man using this order: Ysera's Platform; Alexstrasza's Platform; Nozdormu's Platform; Kalecgos' Platform. Dealing with the Blisterings on two platforms was easier than dealing with two non-slowed Elementium Bolts, and any time we did not keep Kalecgos for last we were two slow on the Regenerative Bloods. For the fourth platform we had the entire raid collapse into a disc priest bubble for the Elementium Bolt. As I was tanking at the moment, I positioned slightly closer to the Mutated Corruption than anyone else to make sure the Impale was cast on me.

From a tanking perspective, this fight is mostly about cooldown management. As we worked through this fight, we found stress moments where we were losing tanks which we fixed through effective delegation of cooldowns.

On every platform, I started in kitty while the other tank (also a feral) started on the Mutated Corruption. We each took an Impale on each platform with the other tank taking the first one while I took the second one. On platform 1, we used Barkskin + Dream. On platform 2, Barkskin + SI. On Platform 3, Barkskin + FR + Stay of Execution. On Platform 4, Barkskin + SI, along with a Lay on Hands on me just before the Impale that follows the Elementium Bolt (the Impale comes immediately after the Bolt hits, so there is about 3-4 seconds to get the tank topped off before the Impale damage).

During phase 2, we found that cooldowns were needed for the Elementium Terrors as their Tetanus debuff stacks really quickly. On the first set, my add was killed first, and I rolled Barkskin then Dream then FR + Stay of Ececution (the other feral did something similar). When my add died, our disc priest added Pain Supression to the other feral. On the second set of adds, I rolled, Barkskin, SI and Dream and we again used an external cooldown, Hand of Sacrifice, on the other tank when my add died. It is important to recognize the need for cooldowns on the Terrors because it limits the use of cooldowns by the tanks while the Elementium Fragments were still up (fortunately healing a tank through Shrapnel is not an issue).

After that it was burn and use whatever cooldowns were available. Fortunately we killed Deathwing before the raid wiped...

As a side note, my tanking gear is about half cat gear and the other half dedicated bear gear. My cat ilvl is now 388 and in bear gear it drops to 384. At the start of every platform and during the burn after the Mutated Corruption was dead, I was in cat form with the other feral going bear to pick up the Regenerative Bloods. My effective dps for the fight was just over 31.5k, just below some of the dpsers - decent for an offtank (the main tank was at 19.7k and he is a full time bear with higher mitigation and lower dps than my gear).

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Re: Madness of Deathwing

Postby Dysheki » Tue Dec 06, 2011 3:40 pm

Lorclonil wrote:We did this fight on 25 man in this order: Ysera>Nozdormu>Alexstrasza>Kalecgo's

We were having some major issues with the regenerative blood on the 4th platform when we saved Alexstrasza for last and so went back to our original order (shown above.)


We also were going Kalecgos > Alexstrasza last and had trouble with the 4th set of bloods. We countered this by having two rogues and a resto shaman bring the 4th tentacle to ~80% at the start and then single target the bloods down on the last platform. The healing was a little more intensive but it gave us dps breathing room to finish the adds and not have Cataclysm finish.

And yeah, we decided last week that Kalecgos will have to be saved until the end for our next kill, lol.
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Re: Madness of Deathwing

Postby shinryu » Mon Dec 12, 2011 4:57 am

10man

We were trying Ysera/Kalec/Alexs/Noz originally (despite my claim that blue should be one of the last ones), wasn't till it was obvious blood adds and the arm not dying and Cataclysm wiping us that we went to an order like Leafkiller's (Ysera/Alexs/Noz/Kalec). But the problem is we're still falling behind in finishing off the hand before Cataclysm is cast on Noz, and those blistering tentacle things are raping us >.>

So to that extent, what are some of the better ways to deal with the blistering tentacles? We're composed of Warrior/Pally tank, 2 spriest, mage, myself (on a rogue) and shammy/druid/pally heals. I mean, do we just pop a raid CD and hope for the best while spamming aoe or something?

Also, the blood adds from hemorrhaging also seem to take longer to die on Noz compared to the others...are you supposed to single target them down or aoe? I mean, pretty sure we do basic aoe on the other 2, yet it doesn't seem as potent with ysera and alexs down...

Finally, when we do make it to P4 on Kalec's platform, what exactly are we supposed to do about the elementium bolt? Can it even be killed before it hits? Or do you just pop raid CDs and dps it down after it crashes?

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Re: Madness of Deathwing

Postby Grenache » Mon Dec 12, 2011 9:20 am

For platform 4s bolt, we just bunched the whole raid up inside a pw:barrier 20 yards from the impact zone and then zerged the hell out of it before the second damage pulse 5.2 seconds later. I think we aura masteried also. Unslowed, it's extremely nasty on 25, especially if a second pulse goes off.

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Re: Madness of Deathwing

Postby Leafkiller » Mon Dec 12, 2011 4:10 pm

shinryu wrote:10man

We were trying Ysera/Kalec/Alexs/Noz originally (despite my claim that blue should be one of the last ones), wasn't till it was obvious blood adds and the arm not dying and Cataclysm wiping us that we went to an order like Leafkiller's (Ysera/Alexs/Noz/Kalec). But the problem is we're still falling behind in finishing off the hand before Cataclysm is cast on Noz, and those blistering tentacle things are raping us >.>

So to that extent, what are some of the better ways to deal with the blistering tentacles? We're composed of Warrior/Pally tank, 2 spriest, mage, myself (on a rogue) and shammy/druid/pally heals. I mean, do we just pop a raid CD and hope for the best while spamming aoe or something?

Also, the blood adds from hemorrhaging also seem to take longer to die on Noz compared to the others...are you supposed to single target them down or aoe? I mean, pretty sure we do basic aoe on the other 2, yet it doesn't seem as potent with ysera and alexs down...

Finally, when we do make it to P4 on Kalec's platform, what exactly are we supposed to do about the elementium bolt? Can it even be killed before it hits? Or do you just pop raid CDs and dps it down after it crashes?


Once you lose the haste/slow buff from Noz, it is harder to kill the blood adds and you may need to single target them down rather than AOEing them. While Noz's buff is still up AOE works just fine on them. It is really a question of raid dps.

Blisterings have to be the priority over anything else. We have the ranged start on the ones in the back while melee works on the blisterings that are closest. Make sure everyone understands that the blisterings are immune to AOE.

We do the same thing Grenache mentions for the bolt on platform 4. We collapse the entire raid group into a Power Word:Barrier zone. We also follow that with a Lay on Hands on the tank who is about to eat the Impale. You should be able to do something similar with your pally/shaman raid cooldowns.

As a side note, Stay of Execution is an awesome trinket for dealing with Impales. Unless your raid damage is extremely high, the time spent on each platform is around 2:30 which lines up well with the 2 minute cooldown on SoE. Deferring an extra 57K of damage on the Impales is huge - especially on platform 4. As I mentioned before, I line up my cooldowns so that I have Survival Instincts ready on platform 4, and I am hitting Barkskin + SI + SoE just before the bolt hits. I am also going into the PW:B shield but making sure I am closer to the tentacle than anyone else so I eat the Impale.

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Re: Madness of Deathwing

Postby shinryu » Mon Dec 12, 2011 10:18 pm

Bleh we don't have a healing priest though...guess the next best thing would be a totem + tranq or something? Really it's odd, you'd think we'd have a healing priest, but our 2 priests are pure shadow, and none of the other healers play one...

I think overall raid dps is a problem as well; the bulk of our dps suck lol. The one spriest with the legendary can't even top any fight over me besides Hagara...so yeah. I mean, the odd thing is we're all in quite a bit of H FL gear (besides myself as I swapped to the rogue after we were done with H FL), so it's not like gearing should be an excuse. We had to 3 heal Spine and had to take 2 phases to kill each tendon, and could barely get a tendon down on time when we were trying to 2 heal it...

Guess that's one more question I have, this is a 3 heal fight usually I'm guessing? 2 healing it is probably super rough I'd imagine?

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Re: Madness of Deathwing

Postby Leafkiller » Mon Dec 12, 2011 11:25 pm

Spirit Link Totem + Aura Mastery followed by tree form will work with your raid comp. We are three healing it. There is no way we could two heal it right now. Not sure what to say about dps. Every little bit helps on that fight.

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Re: Madness of Deathwing

Postby Grenache » Tue Dec 13, 2011 2:52 am

Serringa wrote:All of the hitboxes and shred angles seem very forgiving. The limb tentacles have a 360 degree shred angle, as far as I could tell. Target switching across the blistering tentacles (assuming Alexstraza not up) was a bit of a pain, but their hitboxes are bigger than they ..


I also found the Blistering Tentacles hard to target and get range on. Any suggestions for targetting or single target rotation on these? Is it better to mangle rake and start shredding or keep tabbing and putting up bleeds on several. I use threatplates and perhaps I need to adjust the alpha because I had trouble working out which one I was on.

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Re: Madness of Deathwing

Postby shinryu » Tue Dec 13, 2011 4:35 am

Leafkiller wrote:Spirit Link Totem + Aura Mastery followed by tree form will work with your raid comp. We are three healing it. There is no way we could two heal it right now. Not sure what to say about dps. Every little bit helps on that fight.

Yeah, who knows, everyone decided to pick theirs up today or something, was doing much better. Even did 3 heals, so yeah...why people can't play good everyday who knows...

Eh, for the meteor, I just realized I could cloak the shit on my Rogue, so that solved my problems lol. Otherwise we're using Aura+Divine Protection I think, followed by a tranq soon after.

We're still running into problems killing the final arm Kalec's platform though, he always finishes casting Cataclysm before we can kill it; even using Hero isn't getting it down. Should we just ignore the 2nd set of blistering tentacles and try to heal through it in hopes of killing the arm or something? Because either way, it's die to tentacles or die to him finishing Cataclysm, so yeah...dunno honestly. Don't think switching Noz and Kalec around would make it much easier, both provide big buffs that suck when one's missing...

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Re: Madness of Deathwing

Postby Leafkiller » Tue Dec 13, 2011 5:19 am

If you can't do it with Kalec's buff at the end you won't get it done by switching the platform order and the blisterings will wipe you if you don't get them down fast enough. What sort of dps are your tanks doing? We tanked with two ferals, one in full bear gear and in my case a combination of cat and bear gear. Between the two of us we pulled about 53k on our first kill. The 5 dps averaged about 40k dps.

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Re: Madness of Deathwing

Postby shinryu » Tue Dec 13, 2011 7:17 am

Leafkiller wrote:If you can't do it with Kalec's buff at the end you won't get it done by switching the platform order and the blisterings will wipe you if you don't get them down fast enough. What sort of dps are your tanks doing? We tanked with two ferals, one in full bear gear and in my case a combination of cat and bear gear. Between the two of us we pulled about 53k on our first kill. The 5 dps averaged about 40k dps.

I believe our warrior was around 21k usually with pally like...17-18k or so? Dunno really...average dps was about 40k from us as well, couple of us higher like 43k or so. That's what I still honestly don't get, in theory being on my rogue and being melee with the worst gear of the bunch, I should be sucking having to target switch so much, yet I'm still chart topping at 43-46k usually, so yeah...dunno.

Who knows, maybe I'll tell our tanks to slap on a dps trinket or something lol. Oh well, another week and more loot incoming, hopefully doable for us poor saps then (even if there's like no leather drops at all >.>). Just a case of everyone else having to step up their dps I guess, as I really can't manage much more with my old t12.

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Re: Madness of Deathwing

Postby Terias » Tue Dec 13, 2011 8:49 am

My guild had to 2 heal it to do the noz last strat, I should mention. You have to have some seriously good healers to 2 heal this fight.

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Re: Madness of Deathwing

Postby shinryu » Fri Dec 16, 2011 7:03 am

Just a bit of a funny update from me, spent another fun 3 hours wiping on DW (I was surprised by how time seemed to fly, felt like Rag dragged on forever). We started out doing the previous order, then started switching it up when dummys kept dying to the unblocked meteor and being unable to dps it down, then we had our spriest start attacking the one limb we couldn't down in time for the final one, all sorts of weird stuff...then our final try we just went back to the original order and wiped at 4% >.>

So, lesson of the day: if it ain't broke, don't try to fix it lol.

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