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Shannox

Postby Alaron » Sun Jun 26, 2011 2:33 pm

This topic is for discussing Feral DPS tactics and/or general raid strategies for the Shannox encounter.

When discussing, please mention raid size (10/25) and difficulty (normal/heroic).

Good things to know:
- If you are tanking the encounter try to keep an eye on the location of Crystal traps that have gone off. They will cause LOS issues for your healers.
- Bears are great tanks for this fight because dodging the Arching slash will not apply Jagged Tear.

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Re: Shannox

Postby Dysheki » Tue Jun 28, 2011 11:06 am

Just looking through this fight it looks to be a pretty decent chance for melee to attack two targets at the same time (you mean multi-targeting isn't just for ranged?!?!) - at least on normal. Now, let me preface this by saying I didn't do any PTR raid testing (except for a laughable Lord Rhyolith heroic pug), but a similar fight with multiple targets up for melee at the same time from the last tier would be Magmaw. For that fight I would always try to keep bleeds up on the construct as well as Magmaw while sacrificing a lot of savage roar up-time (it was especially useful to FC the construct as soon as it came near since it becomes a free two-cp generator while the construct was high health). It worked relatively well.

Anyhow, with the buff to direct damage do you think it will still be beneficial to multi-rip if you can get decent up-times with it while sacrificing things like direct damage and the newly buffed Savage Roar? While berserking the obvious answer is yes, but outside of berserking is where the curiosity comes into play. Intuition says it will still be useful if you haven't ditched a lot of mastery and, server willing, I'll test it out later - but just curious as to what others think.
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Re: Shannox

Postby Tinderhoof » Tue Jun 28, 2011 12:22 pm

With all of the buffs to direct damage and the minor Rip nerf (ie strength nerf) I don't think keeping rip up on both Shannox and Riplimb will be reasonable.
However with the Rake buff it would be very easy to swap to Riplimb right after refreshing rip on Shannox and Mangle, Rake, then SR and return to Shannox.

Now after the early testing I have been hearing from folks on the PTR forums that Riplimb and Shannox are no longer tauntable. If this is still the case on live it will lead to some creative ways to let tanks drop stacks. As encounter mechanics seem to require I am guessing that having Riplimb be kited over crystal traps will be a requirement to help the tank slow the speed of stacks. This may prevent some of the above suggested multidotting. Anyone done any recent PTR testing that wouldn't mind sharing?

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Re: Shannox

Postby Sylvaneart » Tue Jun 28, 2011 12:39 pm

As of last Thursday I could NOT taunt.
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Re: Shannox

Postby mekell » Tue Jun 28, 2011 11:24 pm

We tried this guy tonite with no success, took us forever to just figure out how to get him to come out (and we still arent sure, but its either tied to the amount of trash you kill or, specifically the overseers.

regarding the boss himself, In 10N he and ripface are definitely un-tauntable, making this seemingly very difficult right now. Both Shannox and Ripface stack the debuff on their targets, and with no way to taunt, its difficult to get the shannox tank's debuff stacks to drop off.

For the dog tank, its easy to drop yours tacks by periodically trapping ripface in the crystal trap. However the boss is immune to that.

have you guys come up with anything regarding the MT debuffs yet? I floated the idea of the tank himself stepping in a crystal trap to see if that dropped his stacks and aggro and then could be dps'ed out and build 2ndary threat.

Have they moved back to a 2ndary threat scenario like back in the BWL days? With vengence that is going to make this seemingly pretty difficult to swap threat, and on 2 targets for that matter. The 2nd tank (assuming tanking rip face) would have to clear his debuff and gain aggro from the MT before ripface breaks his trap (about 6 seconds, it seems). That seems pretty far fetched.

I am thinking theres some trick that we are just missing, or that the non-tauntable mechanism is a bug.
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Re: Shannox

Postby Endlessness » Wed Jun 29, 2011 1:14 am

Nope you guys aren't missing anything we killed him tonight. We kept all dps on Rage until 30%. This way the tanks get enough threat lead that way they don't have to do a max threat rotation and can catch each other easily enough when they need to switch. On 25 man we left a couple arcane mages on rage and split the remainder of dps between Shan and the other dog. As far as the multiple target dots I really don't think this is even remotely plausable on this fight the distance between mobs is to great and they are jerked all over the map. Q killed him as well that I know of so they might have a different strat on the tanking aspect of it but the all dps on rage til 30% seemed to be the ticket for us.

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Re: Shannox

Postby Terias » Wed Jun 29, 2011 1:38 am

10 man, bear tank on Shannox, he doesn't do his cleave often and our group found I woud reliably dodge it and the dots would drop. Even at high stacks (30 at one point), I was healable, though I did pop CD's after a couple ticks. Usually it would not make it that high though, it hovered from 3-12, then reset.

We killed rageface outright, then took shannox to 40%, I took him to 30% while the raid killed Riplimb from full.

Riplimb tank can reset his own stacks easily by pulling him into traps and kiting.

Massive CD's for burn phase (offensive and defensive). He puts out a lot of damage after the first couple fire debuffs.

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Re: Shannox

Postby Dysheki » Wed Jun 29, 2011 2:56 am

On our 25N kill we had three tanks available and ready, but we basically did the kill with two. Also, I would like to preface this with I never tanked the fight and I'm only passing along information as I understand it and I could be wrong. That out of the way . . . The Riplimb tank would run over traps and whatnot to help him take his stack off and the Shannox tank would run away at key times to not get hit by his cleave (the thing that gives stacks) since it's a timed ability. You could also work around the cleave with well timed death grips assuming the priest knows to immediately move out of the way.

Doing it one tank per boss was very nice since you obviously don't have to worry about non-taunt-tank-swaps (lol without vengeance . . . dumbest idea ever).
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Re: Shannox

Postby Endlessness » Wed Jun 29, 2011 4:35 am

How exactly did you do the fight without tank swaps?

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Re: Shannox

Postby Stenhaldi » Wed Jun 29, 2011 4:53 am

Riplimb tank can drop his stack by pulling the dog into a prison trap and moving some distance away.

Shannox tank can drop his stack by pulling Shannox away from his spear after he throws it. He can't use arcing slash without his spear. Slow the dog also (if it's possible) as it tries to recover the spear.

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Re: Shannox

Postby mekell » Wed Jun 29, 2011 9:55 am

Stenhaldi wrote:Riplimb tank can drop his stack by pulling the dog into a prison trap and moving some distance away.

Shannox tank can drop his stack by pulling Shannox away from his spear after he throws it. He can't use arcing slash without his spear. Slow the dog also (if it's possible) as it tries to recover the spear.


This sounds like what they intended the fight to be. Will be interesting to try this.

Thank you all for the ideas as well. We only got a couple of attempts before our raid time was over but this should help us next time!
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Re: Shannox

Postby Rarge » Wed Jun 29, 2011 8:11 pm

In 10 man we was having problems with Face Rage. We found that a Ravage was pretty much a guaranteed break however it did gimp my DPS a bit if say, I had 4 CP on Shannox and I'd have to switch to Rageface to break the Face Rage. (lots of faces and rages there).

I think next attempt I'll ask if I can just be permanently on Rageface if I'm required to break Face Rage.

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Re: Shannox

Postby Leafkiller » Thu Jun 30, 2011 1:48 am

We just got the kill on 25 man - two tanks on Shannox and I solo tanked Riplimb. We set up with two ranged areas - one to either side - and then a kite area for the Shannox tanks in front of us. We put all dps and healers on one of the two ranged areas to start and I pulled Riplimb to the other. On every spear throw I swapped sides with the ranged/healers. We had melee start in the range group because we burned down Rageface first. Then we had ranged switch to Riplimb and melee get on Shannox. At about 32% on Shannox we killed Riplimb, hit heroism and did the burn.

For dropping stacks, I parked near a red trap. When the Spear was thrown, I moved Riplimb onto the trap. Then I did the swap with the ranged group after the fire was gone. As long as I had a trap available I was able to drop my stacks on every Spear phase - and the Shannox tanks were able to drop their stacks also.

Having Rageface dead first was not an issue for the healers.

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Re: Shannox

Postby Zorgoth » Thu Jun 30, 2011 4:53 am

We gave him a couple of tries yesterday, and found this fight (10 man, normal) to be harder than we thought (which is a good thing tbh). We didn't get a kill yet, though i'm positive we won't take long on this boss.

What we tried was postition Riplimb and Shannox far enough away from eachother so we could reset jagged tear stacks. I was tanking Riplimb, while a DK was tanking Shannox. I had with me a Shadow priest who lifegripped me as soon as she saw the Hurl spear animation, and would continue casting mind flay to slow Riplimb when he was running to Shannox. This helped considerably in resetting Jagged Tear stacks. Most of our problems came from Rageface face-raging a healer which would result in a healer death. We had a Arcane mage on Rageface all the time but his DPS was either not high enough, or the time between crits was too long.

Tonight we'll try out some ideas on this fight, like:
    - Different positioning Awesome painting...
    - Killing Rageface ASAP and healing through the Shannox buff
    - Letting a good kiter try and kite Riplimb the entire fight so we can use 1 tank the entire fight
    - Letting the shannox tank move shannox in a way that there is a Crystal trap in between Riplimb and Shannox. I think it's easier for the Shannox tank because there seem to be a lot more traps close to Shannox than close to Riblimb

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Re: Shannox

Postby Ekthelion » Thu Jun 30, 2011 11:30 am

25:
we had two tanks, one on shannox and the second one on riplimb. Generally we burned riplimb to ~15%, then switched to boss and when he reached <40%, we went to rageface. When he was around the % life of riplimb's,
we took them down fast one after another. It's important to kill them before boss reach 30%, because otherwise dogs will enrage.
Shannox and riplimb where tanked in a distance from each other (30-40 yards?) but not too far (anti cheating solution which will make Shannox hit like truck). When he throws spear (always near riplimb) the riplimb's tank immediately run towards Shannox two make the riplimb get the spear back to Shannox as long as possible. Slow him down with hunter traps and any other slows you have. also make him run on the cristal traps to extend the time. Shannox doesn't put debuff on tank without the spear.
After dogs just nuke the boss, healing cds
strongly advised.
P.S. boss and riplimb can't be taunted so let the tanks get and keep aggro.
Also assign few range to take care of rageface (to crit him for 45k in one shot).
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Re: Shannox

Postby shinryu » Fri Jul 01, 2011 3:39 am

10man, just outright killed rageface and then 2 of us melee dpsed Shannox down to 35% while the others focused on riplimb, though I swapped to riplimb from time to time to dps him also. We didn't quite get it (had trouble with the traps), but definitely not that hard once you're used to the rather odd aspects of the fight. Should be downed next week...curse you holiday weekends; at least if you dumb blizz people released this on the 21st, wouldn't be having this awkward problem.

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Re: Shannox

Postby Konungr » Fri Jul 01, 2011 7:22 am

10man:

Had Tank take Riplimb ~60 yards away. We popped hero and burned the ever living crap out of Rageface. As soon as Rageface was down, melee on Shannox, Ranged on Riplimb. We burned Riplimb to 10%, stopped burned Shannox to 35%, killed Riplimb, finished Shannox.

To deal with the tanks resetting their stacks, the MT did some considerably fancy footwork when Riplimb was returning his weapon.

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Re: Shannox

Postby Orka » Fri Jul 01, 2011 7:24 am

Hello everyone,
My guild and I are trying him since 4.2 live release, in 10 man normal version, and the best we could reach so far was two dogs dead and Shannox at 32%.
The strat we use is burning Rageface as fast as possible, then two melee dps on Shannox and ranged on Riplimb, get Shannox to 35%, kill Riplimb, then burst the boss.
I play as a kitty, and i found our contribution very valuable for handling Rageface. When he jumps on to someone and uses Face Rage, he gets a +50% crit chance debuff, making our ravage almost always a crit on him. He seems to be using Face Rage every 30 seconds, so make sure to keep your Feral charge for this occasion, as the cooldowns are similar. I have noticed that Rageface seems to switch to the player who broke his Face Rage ability, and that's where our hybrid spirit is useful: Feral Charge + Ravage crit, you get focused, then switch to bear shape and trigger Barkskin. It's a huge help for raid healers as you will take very small damage.
Once he's on you, he's likely to stick to you for about 10 seconds. During these ten seconds, if he has not the Wary debuff (rendering him immune to traps for 25 seconds), keep facing him, and walk backward to drag him into fire traps. Do not step on the trap, as it's the unit stepping on it that gets the damage, DoT and debuff. Just walk backwards around the trap, the dog should trigger it eventually. This manoeuvre is of course easier if you have experience tanking, but it's pretty quick to learn.
With our strategy, having Rageface trapped into cristal traps is a waste of time as well as a risk for our Riplimb tank not to find any cristal trap to keep Riplimb stuck when running over his master's spear.
As of the rest of the encounter, as usual, don't stand in the fire popping after the Spear was launched, don't get trapped, and Shred their face! I use Berserk on opening, as the dog has no aggro it's no problem, just pray for him not to focus on you or your dps gain will be slightly wasted, and then be sure to have it up for the burst phase. As a motivational tool, remember that we're cats, and cats hate all these stinky dogs.
Hope that helped. Meow.
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Re: Shannox

Postby Furocious » Fri Jul 01, 2011 1:46 pm

10man Normal
MT: Dk on Shannox, OT: Feral (me) on Riplimb

We had all our dps burn down Rageface, then Shannox to about 40%, then kill Riplimb (during which time Shannox was close to 30%), and finally burn phase on the last 30%.

The biggest thing we found is - don't get trapped. Any dps lost to the traps can make the fight a pain, and in the last burn phase it's a nightmare (until we're geared up anyway). The Riplimb tank can also be targeted with a trap, so everyone needs to pay attention. There's a small amount of time after a trap comes up that you can run out, but it's best to know it's incoming and move asap.

Since I was tanking Riplimb my focus was to try and keep him away from the MT and the raid so the spear impact fire swirl thing wasn't an issue (though staying in range of a healer was a bit tricky if I wasn't paying attention), and then make it so the MT and myself could drop our debuff stacks.

A couple of things I found useful. If Riplimb could be trapped, getting him into a crystal prison a second or two before the spear impact works well. Both tanks were able to drop their debuff stacks. Typically when I managed this I bolted for the other side of our encounter area (making a triangle between the MT, the frozen Riplimb, and myself) Also while Riplimb was stuck the MT dragged shannox away as well to maximize spear return time.

If Riplimb had the Wary debuff so I couldn't trap him, I found using Furious Roar right after the spear impact circle appeared (but before the fire hit) allowed me to kite Riplimb pretty far away. This gave almost as much time to get the spear and return it to Shannox as trapping riplimb. During the kill Riplimb phase I tried to have him trip over the fire traps. I generally didn't use many outs unless I was outranging healers for a bit (which happened mostly when I was trying to drop a debuff stack), and I think my stack size was around 5 or less. During the kill Riplimb time I hit 8 or 9 on my debuff, which was then I started chaining outs to help the healers.

Once both dogs were dead I went into kitty since there's no need for an OT at that point (if the MT dies it's a wash since there's no taunting and I'd never get a threat lead over the healers). Even though I was in bear spec/gear popping zerk during the last 30% helps. The MT popped a big out just before 30% to try and stabilize the entry into the burn phase, and then it was a matter of talking over vent to coordinate tank/healer outs to keep the tank up long enough for the dps to finish off Shannox.

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Re: Shannox

Postby Mystar » Sat Jul 02, 2011 3:57 am

10 man normal strategy, that have gotten us the kill, and when we wipe it is below 30%

First of I am MT as a bear. Just before a slash I usually pop a dodge trinkets. As a bear with good dodge means that sometimes the stack even runs out by it self.

I am MT Shannox through the whole fight, and the other tank is having riplimb the whole fight.
We are splitting DPS equally, with an arcane mage continuously on rage - this ensure we always break the rageface

The OT keeps riplimb close to shannox and he ensure that he also gets threat on shannox, so he usually is in second place (Or third with a rougue above him who can drop threath)
This also makes me able to cleave and use berserk damage on riplimb as well.

When he throws spear the mage or priest slows riplimb and I kite him till stack runs of both me and OT. (I usually do this every second spear)

When he goes to 35% we burn rageface and riplimb, to 2-4% and then wait for a spear.
We drop stack, burn the dogs, and then move the boss to a new place with no traps and burn him.

Tricks and other stuff keep the OT in second place if I should die in this phase of the fight.

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Re: Shannox

Postby Morghan » Mon Jul 11, 2011 12:18 pm

I had a question for Syvlan earlier on Twitter, but after reading this thread I think most of them were answered. I think I'll communicate some of these strats and ideas to our raid leader to let him know.

Thanks for all the great info guys.

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Re: Shannox

Postby Sylvaneart » Mon Jul 11, 2011 1:56 pm

Lol you all stealing meh thunder!!!!!!!! Just kidding. This section is what TFD is all about. Kettehs helping kettehs.
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Re: Shannox

Postby squiggles » Wed Jul 20, 2011 3:31 am

For heroic version if your tanks are struggling with resetting riplimb stacks, you can just send a feral druid with 2/2 infected wounds to stay on riplimb for a 100% slow uptime (I've been told other classes' slows get reset while druid slow doesn't).

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Re: Shannox

Postby NoFuneral » Wed Jul 20, 2011 4:56 pm

My experience is completely in the 10 man normal mode. The following is my angle on contributing as a Feral Cat on the Shannox encounter.

With all strikes against Rageface being crits now, as Feral Cats we're in a great position to score clutch target changes. Using Feral Chage into Ravage! I usually save for when Rageface goes after a healer. Otherwise I try to stock up 5 combo points to use a Ferocious Bite on Rageface to break him off cloth/leather DPS. Whenever Rageface decides to target me, I go into bear and use cooldowns as needed. I generally try to kite Rageface towards the center so that when he changes target any melee DPS that are working on him don't have to go so far to get to him. I'm aware that it's not optimal to have melee chasing around Rageface, and if you can avoid having to do it I recommend going that way, but if you do have melee working on Rageface you can be a serious benefit in both breaking focuses and positioning.

After Rageface goes down, you're pretty open to do your thing and blow up Riplimb and then Shannox. Keep an eye open for period of high raid damage to use Tranquility, especially if you're specced for Nurturing Instinct.

Tactics involving using traps seem to be pretty similar no matter what your role is. Whatever your group decides to about traps you should be well able to follow it.

Hope this helps!

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Re: Shannox

Postby Orka » Tue Aug 09, 2011 7:39 am

NoFuneral wrote:With all strikes against Rageface being crits now

[...]
Keep an eye open for period of high raid damage to use Tranquility, especially if you're specced for Nurturing Instinct.

Was Rageface patched?

This is an interesting concern I was having about NI and Tranquility. Fights like Shannox and Beth'tilac imply very high raid damage acting as a soft enrage, where it's usually during the last few percents that healing gets really hard. During this critical period, should we focus on downing the boss as fast as possible, or should we stop dpsing and cast Tranquility? Is it worth dealing 0dps at this dramatic time?

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