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Let's talk about logs (Gearing and Execution advise) 4.3

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Re: Let's talk about logs (Gearing and Execution advise) 4.3

Postby kumineko » Sat Mar 31, 2012 3:47 pm


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Re: Let's talk about logs (Gearing and Execution advise) 4.3

Postby Tinderhoof » Mon Apr 02, 2012 8:02 pm

There was some minor improvements and some minor regressions.

The Good:
- Your dps jumped up by about 1k. This is likely due to the new gear and reforging strat.
- Your Rip uptime improved by 4% (There is room to improve here).
- Your FF uptime improved by 8%.

The Bad:
- Your white attack damage is higher then your Mangle damage. Use the Mangle glyph over Bloodletting for this fight only.
- Your Rake uptime dropped by 8%. You should be hitting around 93-97% uptime. You were at 88%.
- Your Savage Roar uptime is unchanged but WAY to low at ~90%. It should be around 98% on a stand still fight.

Are you currently using any type of add on to track buffs and debuffs? I think this would go a long way to help you improve if you are able to visually see the current time remaining for buffs and debuffs. There are many addons you can use to track stuff like this. I favor Raven myself, but I know Need to Know and Tell Me When are also very popular. Have a look around Curse for "timers" and find one that suits you.

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Re: Let's talk about logs (Gearing and Execution advise) 4.3

Postby kumineko » Sat Apr 07, 2012 3:39 pm

Thank you for replying. I have been using Forte exorcist for my all my classes but I have noticed that its too big and keeps track way too much stuff that i don't need to know as a dps.

I will try raven looks like a good replacement to Fortexorcist.

See if this helps me improve my uptime on abilities. Any pointers on how to setup Raven?

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Re: Let's talk about logs (Gearing and Execution advise) 4.3

Postby Tinderhoof » Sat Apr 07, 2012 9:09 pm

kumineko wrote:Thank you for replying. I have been using Forte exorcist for my all my classes but I have noticed that its too big and keeps track way too much stuff that i don't need to know as a dps.

I will try raven looks like a good replacement to Fortexorcist.

See if this helps me improve my uptime on abilities. Any pointers on how to setup Raven?

I break my bar groups into a few different areas. I have:
Buffs (on me)
Defensive cooldowns
Offensive cooldowns
Debuffs on target

I place these around my HUD. It's really not the only way to do it, just the way I like it.

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Re: Let's talk about logs (Gearing and Execution advise) 4.3

Postby Cayssaris » Wed Apr 18, 2012 1:33 pm

Armory Link: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/z ... s/advanced
I'm currently specced BearCat and reforged for H Spine attempts tonight. Normally I have Haste out the Wazoo and I have Primal Madness Saw like a 6-8k dps increase on Morchok from last week to this week, not logged this week sadly :( I was Bearcat spec most of our heroic kills till this last week.

WoL: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-c9osv909nmbmtk0z/ Last weeks first 6
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-blisoxj3m6n8ia6b/ 15 of our spine attempts
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-9hjehn08jf6azgyz/ 4 out of the 6 bosses killed last night
I was extremely laggy last night and my performance was shit :(
Description: Well my DPS is decent and i know that, but my Uptimes are horrible 60-79%. I guess currently I'm more worried about Spine damage and i feel as if im not doing as much as i could possibly be doing.
Should i go over hit cap to reforge more out of expertise, should i have more haste?
I've been reading logs all day and I'm not very good with my own its kind of sad

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Re: Let's talk about logs (Gearing and Execution advise) 4.3

Postby Tinderhoof » Wed Apr 18, 2012 8:13 pm

I am trying to have a look at your logs, but there is something going on with World of Logs. I will have a look at this after raid tonight. Maybe work is messing with it.

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Re: Let's talk about logs (Gearing and Execution advise) 4.3

Postby Mythikas » Sat Apr 21, 2012 10:38 am

So, I have a problem, I cant rank properly on HMs, I dont know if its caused by fight length or im just bad, but it sucks.......

If anyone cares to take a look:
WoL: http://www.worldoflogs.com/guilds/142619/
Armory: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/z ... s/advanced ( ill try to logout in pve gear)
if in pvp gear http://www.wow-heroes.com/character/us/ ... /mythikas/ has me in pve on my primary spec

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Re: Let's talk about logs (Gearing and Execution advise) 4.3

Postby skoats » Tue Apr 24, 2012 9:55 pm

Tinderhoof wrote:Hey Skoats. Welcome to the commnity.

I won't be able to tell you much more until I could get a log to look at. If your guild doesn't take logs you can actually do it yourself, it is a very simple setup. Hope that helps.


Well, it's been awhile. This WoL just about out smarted me. I had a little computer down time, but I think I finally got some sort of log. I did not include (Heroic) Morchok because I'm shifting in and out of cat to absorb the stomp. Next time I'll just let it run. Be forwarned I had a lot of mis-ques and just plain bad timing on my spell priorities. Any help you can give me will be much appreciated.

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-8uu0fvf0p01lm07r/

The continuation of the raid (a little embarrassing, but here it is)

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-nr2vttmten0hzsuu/

Thanks,
jp

And my hats off to you; for being able to make since of all this data.

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Re: Let's talk about logs (Gearing and Execution advise) 4.3

Postby Rabiez » Thu May 31, 2012 1:45 am

Hey guys! It's been a while since I've posted, but I'm still an avid reader.

I did good on Spine Heroic without too much trouble. But for Madness, I'm gonna need help. My dps is the lowest in the raid.

On Kalego's platform after the bolt hits I have to bear roar everyone to the bolt, then four piece regen so I basically don't do much damage during that whole time in bear form. Any advice to help with doing more damage? I used mangle, maul and thrash.

I changed the Kiroptyric Sigil out for Starcatcher Compass. I'm currently speced for Haste/crit/Mastery but I've heard I should go Crit/Haste/Mastery. Which is better?

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-db9n7yq61feezo4h/

Any advice is appreciated. :-)

Forgot to add:
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/s ... z/advanced

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Re: Let's talk about logs (Gearing and Execution advise) 4.3

Postby Tinderhoof » Fri Jun 01, 2012 3:07 am

Hey Rabiez.

Welcome to the community. I have to tell you I hate looking at Madness logs as that fight is a target swaping nightmare. I focused on your best attempt the 16:30 second attempt. I really think you shouldn't be to down on yourself for your performance. You are actually doing pretty good for your first few times at this encounter. I would say much better then the other feral in your raid.

The thing you have to remember is that Madness is like Spine. It doesn't matter what your final damage count is, it matters that you did your best damage to the target that needed to die that moment. Even though the other feral out gears you by a good bit, you had higher damage then him or equal to on the importent targets. You almost doubled his damage on Parasites, did 2 million more on Mutated Corruptions, did exactly equal on the shard, and he didn't even do a single point of damage to the Blistering Tentacle's. He also didn't use Feral Charge once but you used it 6 times. On top of that he didn't have to swap to bear for 45 seconds to heal up the raid.

I will give feed back on what you did well, and what you can improve on.

The good:
- Great use of most cooldowns. Tigers Fury usage was on cooldown or close to it, and you maximized Berserk uptime.
- Very happy that you are FC'ing the Parasite every time. Super for burst damage.
- Even though it is our biggest weakness you are target swapping for every importent target and not trying to meter whore (the other feral didn't do this).
- Good job using Enrage to boost your rage during FR.

What you can improve on:
- If at all possible drop herbing as a profession. The Lifeblood buff is very weak, and you end up losing out on 80 more agility. If you are unable to drop this, you need to make as much use of this buff as possible. You only used it 5 times on a 16 minute fight. You had space for 2 more uses at least.
- POTIONS! Prepot and use the second Pot for either the first Parasite on Kalagos's platform, or for blasting down a regenerative blood pack.
- Faire Fire use was mostly good, but you wern't applying it to the Parasites most of the time. Try and remember to use it when you FC at it (You can cast it mid flight). That way its up by the time you get there.
- Make more use of Rake. Remember Shreds get buffed by Rake and Mangle being on the target. When ever you target swap make sure Rake goes up right away (this includes Paracites). Unless you are having to hold DPS always try to have Rake going on at least 1 target.
- Savage Roar uptime. This needs to come up. Don't forget to make use of combo points still left on dead targets to refresh it. This comes into play when swaping platforms, and from Mutated Corruptions.

Gear suggestions:
- Swap back to Sigil over the Compass. The proc from Compass is on way to long a cooldown, and on anything but a stand still fight it has the tendency to be wasted. Make sure you bind Sigil to TF so you are procing it on cooldown.
- There is not right reforging for this fight. Just go with what you are comfortable with. If its Hast > Crit > Mastery go for it.
- Get some more Epic gems. Your pants and cloak have normals even though both have no upgrades. If you arn't still running Firelands to get the Ryolith cloak just put a 50 agi gem in it.

Spec Adjustment:
- Just one point in Thick hide is not doing you any favors, or helping you survive. Take that point out and 2 points from Furor and put them in Perserverance. Because you only shift 2 times the whole fight the points in Furor aren't helping much, and the magic damage reduction really adds up on a fight that long.

Here is a few fight tips I picked up:
- Swap a little early to the Mutated Corruptions. You should be able to get a Rip up just before the first Parasite spawns and you have to swap. Don't worry if you can't get it up, swap anyway. But once you get the hang of it you will be able to have it going every time with out having to delay your swap to the parasite.
- You can Feral Charge fragments and the big adds. Use it!

Ok I thew a lot of stuff at you. Don't stress out to much though, you are doing a good job. Just keep at it and you will down him very soon. Best of luck next week!
-Tinder

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Re: Let's talk about logs (Gearing and Execution advise) 4.3

Postby Rabiez » Tue Jun 05, 2012 10:31 am

WOW Thank you Tinder! I've been mulling through all that you gave me and tonight is raid night. I've been trying to prepot, doesn't always work since the pull is sometimes "okay, pulling" *click* The second pot is for our second hero/time warp.

My lifeblood is macroed in with my tendon macro which I'm still using. I'm popping tf, berserk, lifeblood and sigil all at once. I was thinking about changing out of herb gathering, but herbs are too costly and I'd rather gather my own. :) I'll just watch the lifeblood cd more carefully and make sure I'm using it more.

I thought this fight was a physical damage fight so I put that lone point in thick hide. I like my furor, but I see your point of only shifting twice is a waste to have the points there. I had the points there for when I go bear form to get one hit out for the corruption to get my rage started instead of using my enrage. I chose to not glyph the frenzy regen so I can do more healing in bear form and just pop enrage as a booster.

I didn't notice that I could charge the shards, I just ran to where the shard would come from and fff, shred and bite. I'll charge them instead from now on as well.

As for our other feral, I'm not defending him per say, but he was on vacation the week before and probably needs updated. I'll be talking strats with him tonight before the raid. He's actually the better feral and has been raiding many years more than me.

That was a lot to read over, but after reading it about twice a day since you posted it, I'm feeling more confident and ready to down Madness. Thank you Tinder.

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Re: Let's talk about logs (Gearing and Execution advise) 4.3

Postby Tinderhoof » Tue Jun 05, 2012 1:19 pm

I thought this fight was a physical damage fight so I put that lone point in thick hide.

Thick hide only applies when you are in bear form. As the only time you are in bear form is to provid healing during the elementium bolt. All of the damage caused by it is fire damage (which can't crit) so you arn't getting any benefit at all. If you were having to take impale hits to save a tank oh ya Thick Hide would be your savior. Just not for the bolt ;^ )

I would recomend that you tell the other feral to do the Stampeeding Roar instead of you. It takes rage for you to cast that you shouldn't spare. Even though he can Feral Charge he can still hit it early (remeber its 8 seconds long) and not lose any damage output.

Because Lifeblood is a 2 minute cooldown to Berserks 3 minute they just arn't going to sync up every time. Its ok to have a Berserk go off with out the extra haste. You are getting lots of it until you get to the last platform anyway. Just try to use it off cooldown for the best results.

Losing 5 seconds of your PrePot is way better then losing your second pot. Just hit the button when he is saying "OK..." Or better try to convince him to do a timer count down (DBM has this feature) so vent lag doesn't screw you.

I think I may need to clairfy the FC a little. You can charge Parasites, Fragments (last platform tentacles), Terrors (big adds), Bolts after they hit the ground (not in the air).

Glad I could be of help. Kick his ass this week.

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Re: Let's talk about logs (Gearing and Execution advise) 4.3

Postby Tinderhoof » Wed Jun 06, 2012 12:14 pm

Gratz on the kill!

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Re: Let's talk about logs (Gearing and Execution advise) 4.3

Postby Rabiez » Wed Jun 06, 2012 5:32 pm

Thank you Tinder! :D

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Re: Let's talk about logs (Gearing and Execution advise) 4.3

Postby adianar » Tue Jun 26, 2012 11:55 am

Gents,
I have a question about WoL as I'm trying to do this myself rather than drag ya'll into my issues :). What is a melee glance? I have 115 of them on DW reg kill. That's more glances than melee hits at 112 but the combination is 227 against 235 melee crits. Is that remotely normal?

Also, why do i have 2 misses for casting FF feral? I can do pretty strong dps most of the time except for the DW fight. I'll come back here if I don't see improvements in some of the areas you've discussed, but I'm amazed at how much lower I dps on this fight alone.

My character page is adianar@gnomeregan on wowarmory.com

I'm hit and exp capped with mastery > haste= crit roughly.. I'm at a loss here.. Thanks for the help.

Adi

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Re: Let's talk about logs (Gearing and Execution advise) 4.3

Postby Tinderhoof » Tue Jun 26, 2012 6:31 pm

Hi Adi. Welcome to the community.

For your questions:
Glancing Blows: A Glancing Blow is of of 7 possible outcomes for a white attack. They are, Hit, Crit, Miss, Dodge, Parry, Block, and Glancing Blow. A Glancing Blow hits for 76% of normal damage and has a 15% chance to happen on a raid level boss. As your rate was about 24% you did have kind of a bad night. I would be interested in seeing this log.

FFF: Feral Faerie Fire is on the spell hit table which is 17% hit. You are going to miss from time to time. Good news is coming in MoP if you have both hit and exp caps your FFF will not miss.

With out logs I can't help you much more here. Remember because you haven't got a kill yet just focus on killing the things that need killing and don't worry about your overall dps. The tips I gave to Rabiez should apply. When you have him on farm you can start trying to game the meters for higher rankings.

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Re: Let's talk about logs (Gearing and Execution advise) 4.3

Postby adianar » Thu Jun 28, 2012 12:53 pm

Thanks Tinder. I normally look at all the logs and for whatever reason, I have never taken notice or never had such a strange streak of these glancing blows. Our progression is at heroic spine, so to be clear, I"ve killed reg DW many, many times. I have consistently noticed that I am in the higher half of most all other reg and heroic bosses, but I just suck in comparison on DW. That for whatever reason has always been consistent.

I also looked to see if I had accidentally been in my PVP spec rather than my kitty spec, but I don't see any infected wounds/other pvp only talents I have. ANYWAY, I'll post logs this week if I'm still way way off. For whatever reason, some mechanic or something I do specific to that fight is still well out of sorts to the other fights. I did come up with initial Beserk and a final Beserk tied with Tol Vir/TF but had missed all Beserks in the middle. Not really sure how that happened as my TF was used basically on cooldown and I do have it macro'd to my TF button.

I'll post logs for several DW fights if it comes to that. Thanks for the description of glancing however. That surprises me at bit as I'm again hit and exp capped, but my assumption is your answer was based on that.

Adi

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Re: Let's talk about logs (Gearing and Execution advise) 4.3

Postby Tinderhoof » Thu Jun 28, 2012 8:00 pm

adianar wrote:Thanks for the description of glancing however. That surprises me at bit as I'm again hit and exp capped, but my assumption is your answer was based on that.

Unlike Block, Dodge, Parry and Miss, Glancing Blows can not be reduced by hit/exp, or positioning. Nothing you can do to avoid them.

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Re: Let's talk about logs (Gearing and Execution advise) 4.3

Postby mineko » Sun Jul 01, 2012 3:46 pm

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/s ... o/advanced

My guild has had some crappy luck with tanks over the last couple months, leading me to need to gem/enchant/reforge some of my gear to be ready to be a competent tank in lieu of main spec tanks. We've finally gotten to a point where we've recruited suitably geared and experienced tanks so I don't need to worry about keeping a hybridized gear set. I can finally go back to being fully specialized for dps.

I'm reluctant to trust Rawr as I usually have in the past to tell me how to gem/enchant/reforge. I'm not sure but I feel like Rawr has lost a lot of its relevance during the Cata period (something I really hope changes eventually). So much of my gear is off kilter due to my previous off tanking role, and I wanna be sure I do it right. Also I haven't changed my kitty talent spec in a good while and I'm curious if any tinkering with it would produce better results.

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Re: Let's talk about logs (Gearing and Execution advise) 4.3

Postby Tinderhoof » Sun Jul 01, 2012 9:42 pm

First off I would redo your pants as both the gem and leg patch are still tank related. Your spec looks fine. I would just take out the FR glyph. Unless you are using it every time with 2 other big healer cooldowns your will get more milage out of the heal.

Why do you feel that RAWR has fallen out of relevence? As far as I know it should still be ok. If you feel you want to move away from it, you can use Mew. However at this point you are pretty close to BIS. Other then the trinket all your other best pieces are out of heroic firelands.

The only reforging suggestion I would make is get rid of every bit of expertise you can. You are over 100 over the cap.

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Re: Let's talk about logs (Gearing and Execution advise) 4.3

Postby mineko » Mon Jul 02, 2012 5:57 pm

I noticed a bunch of issues with Rawr, such as it will sometimes completely overvalue mastery to the point that it will suggest blue trinkets over heroic DS ones. It hasn't done that in a while for me, though, so maybe that was fixed. It also seems to think the Starcatcher Compass is the best trinket in the game and Vial of Shadows is crap, which I know is incorrect, it should be the other way around. Last but not least, unless you specifically set it to cap hit/exp, it significantly undervalues it, to the point that it suggests reforging as much of it away as possible, which I'm not entirely sure is a valid gearing strategy anymore.

I replaced the FR glyph with FB. I couldn't think of any other major glyph that could be of use to me besides FFF, and I think helping the healers out a little is more useful than 10 yards of extra range on FFF.

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Re: Let's talk about logs (Gearing and Execution advise) 4.3

Postby Tinderhoof » Tue Jul 03, 2012 4:26 pm

Like I said before, give Mew a try.

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Re: Let's talk about logs (Gearing and Execution advise) 4.3

Postby adianar » Fri Aug 17, 2012 5:57 pm

Tinder. About that damage on DW being low. I believe I'm now onto the primary culprit. Somehow, amazingly, on our first full night of attempts on heroic DW, I've realized in rereading the forum tips on the fight that I'm completely unaware of the spellweave mechanic, what to use it on, when to try to use it, etc. TOTALLY FAIL I know...

Not sure how I've gotten this far without it, but it is what it is. SO, to get to fixing it, would you be so kind as to explain the mechanic and how I gain the most effective use of it please? I'll link my attempts and armory as well.

Thanks a million.

PS I posted a few weeks back about missing something on this fight dps wise.. I'm assuming this is it.

Logs: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/mffvfh0x7wk710fo/
Armory: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/g ... nar/simple

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Re: Let's talk about logs (Gearing and Execution advise) 4.3

Postby Azsuregos » Fri Aug 24, 2012 3:28 pm

There is nothing much to say about the spellweave mechanic. It will randomly procc off of our styles, doing 23k arcane dmg to all the mobs around that target from which it procced off.

That said, go ahead and swipe some blood and spellweave will nearly double your aoe dmg. Good opportunity to push your dmg bar a good portion.

As a sidenote; I think feral is one of the best AoE choices for the blood on the last platform besides warriors.

And as tinder said already - madness logs are a pain in the ass to look at.

Nevertheless here are my results; I looked at your attempts that are above 9mins. I was just able to detect the following flaws:
- sr uptime could be higher (>95%)
- you should pre-pot and pot infight in sync with berserk if possible (usually on the 4th platform at the tentacle or on DW platform when the 2. blood wave spawns.)
- rake/rip uptime could be higher on several attempts (the uptimes varies A LOT. There are some tries with decent uptimes, so just keep practicing - you are on a good way)
- Tigers Fury should be used more often (the 9:48" try was a good one regarding to your TF use, so just keep practicing)

Unfortunately it looks like your longest try was your messiest try rotation wise. You forgot one whole round of berserk and used your first berserk not in sync with TF and used TF generally not often enough. (and you died unluckily to Shrapnel ;P)

Everything else I could see looked fine so far, especially your dmg table.It looked like mine so in general you're doing it right you just need to cut some edges.

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Re: Let's talk about logs (Gearing and Execution advise) 4.3

Postby adianar » Mon Aug 27, 2012 4:21 pm

Thanks Azsure.. We killed it on Monday. No staff though. At least the content is complete before the changes.. Now, the changes....

Adi

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