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Question Regarding DoC & Soul of the forest

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Question Regarding DoC & Soul of the forest

Postby Xube » Mon Nov 26, 2012 12:01 am

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/s ... ube/simple


Hey, so i am almost certain this has been talked about on this forum. But i cant seem to locate my answer. So please pardon me if i re-ask this.

I am currently using DoC talent.

I wanted to know if it would be in my interest to Use the Soul of the Forest Talent or Incarnation?

Thanks in advanced!

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Re: Question Regarding DoC & Soul of the forest

Postby Leafkiller » Mon Nov 26, 2012 1:29 am

Soul of the Forest is better.

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Re: Question Regarding DoC & Soul of the forest

Postby aggixx » Mon Nov 26, 2012 5:46 am

Incarnation should be taken if you need to optimize your damage output around small windows of time instead of across the course of the entire encounter. Soul of the Forest will beat Incarnation in sustained DPS on any encounter that doesn't have short duration extreme damage multipliers (Heroic Wind Lord Mel'jarak is an excellent example of this).
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Re: Question Regarding DoC & Soul of the forest

Postby Xube » Mon Nov 26, 2012 4:23 pm

TY! for the quick reply

If i can proceed to ask a few more questions that have been bothering me. This is the only place really that i have a good source of knowledge about cats.

Currently i run DoC as you can read from above. I have read generally that DoC will result better than NV and HotW. And i really like the rotation with DoC & what it brings along with it.

I am not upset with my damage at all. I generally do really well - 50-65k depending on the fight. But i cant help but shake this feeling that i may be able to be better, and could be doing more than i am.

Just a few things i have a few macros

TF+ Trinket (1.5 Min CD)+ Synapse Springs on my gloves from Engineering.

Berserk+ Berserking ( Troll Racial)

And a Natures Swiftness + Healing Touch macro

----
The Glyphs i choose are Savegry, Cat and Shred - I am not even sure shred is still broken or not?
I generally always keep SR up with no CP points - because of the glyph -> Is that even the right way to do it?

Thanks again!

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Re: Question Regarding DoC & Soul of the forest

Postby Tinderhoof » Mon Nov 26, 2012 5:39 pm

You should only use SR with 0 combo points at the begining of the fight, or because something has gone wrong. The reason for this is SR costs 25 energy. If you only refresh with 0 combo points that means you are using up 25 energy every 12 seconds. That is energy that can be used for the rest of your abilities. You don't have to use 5 combo points for SR, but it doesn't hurt to do that as well.

For your macros don't forget to add TF to your Berserk Macro as well (make sure you list it first). You don't want to kick off Berserk off with out it up.

50-60k is kinda low right now depending on gear. Is that number for Dummies, or that on some raid fights? Could you give a link to your armory?

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Re: Question Regarding DoC & Soul of the forest

Postby Xube » Mon Nov 26, 2012 6:10 pm

Thanks for the reply Tinder

Armory link

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/shandris/Xube/advanced (Fixed your link. Is that you?)

if that link doesn't work, the same link is posted on the first post of this thread!

That is on most fights. not including fights with damage multipliers such as Elgalon. My gear isn't great at all really in my opinion. Nor do i have any teir yet etc. using a lot of LFR as well.

Also here is my big question i always try to stay hit capped. (I use askmrrobot a lot)

So being hit capped is it something i should stay away from? there is always this back and forth about hit cap vs. adding more to mastery/crit/haste etc...

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Re: Question Regarding DoC & Soul of the forest

Postby Leafkiller » Mon Nov 26, 2012 6:41 pm

I recommend staying hit and expertise capped at this point. Theoretically you can get slightly higher dps if you focus exclusively on mastery, but that is specific to a Patchwerk fight and we have lots of fights with movement and adds where you can't afford to miss an attack.

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Re: Question Regarding DoC & Soul of the forest

Postby Tinderhoof » Mon Nov 26, 2012 8:29 pm

Totally agree with Leaf. Hit/Exp cap is the way to go.

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Re: Question Regarding DoC & Soul of the forest

Postby Tinderhoof » Mon Nov 26, 2012 8:35 pm

Couple of more tips. You are gemming for Hit, but then refoging away from it. You should really be gemming Agility. It is still by far our best stat. I would get rid of all of the mastery gems and replace them with Agi. Your chest and pants are the only socket bonuses worth going for (helm you already have). In those use Agi/Hit for blue, and Agi/Mastery for yellow. Everything else just straight Agi.

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Re: Question Regarding DoC & Soul of the forest

Postby Instaqueues » Wed Nov 28, 2012 11:14 am

Last night was the first night I joined the party (late I know!) for DoC & SotF, and I was suprised how many times I could line up Rip & Rake w/ DoC! And yes, use SR w/ 5 CP preferably, but more importantly make sure it's up 100% of the time. You get refunded 20 energy if u use 5 CP.

However...I have 5 iLVL more than last week, and my DPS went down about 20k (went from ~120k to ~100k) on Elegon. I used to use HotW + SotF + haste build. I'm wondering if HotW would be better for Elegon still?

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Re: Question Regarding DoC & Soul of the forest

Postby Darthn » Wed Nov 28, 2012 11:57 am

I get stuck using HotW right now for off spec Tranq's. Tranq without HotW + SP weapon isn't worth it. I need to see if I can get out of this "raid cooldown" role and move into a full dps role.

My question just to be clear:

You should just use HT with PS when you have 4-5 (to get a DoC Rip up) or if PS is about to expire correct? We really only want to use DoC for finishers, correct? Use NS/HT to get a DoC proc when the boss is 25% to get a DoC rip going and use bites to keep it rolling, right?

Just trying to get the methodology behind it prior to swapping to DoC.

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Re: Question Regarding DoC & Soul of the forest

Postby Tinderhoof » Wed Nov 28, 2012 2:12 pm

Instaqueues wrote:Last night was the first night I joined the party (late I know!) for DoC & SotF, and I was suprised how many times I could line up Rip & Rake w/ DoC! And yes, use SR w/ 5 CP preferably, but more importantly make sure it's up 100% of the time. You get refunded 20 energy if u use 5 CP.

However...I have 5 iLVL more than last week, and my DPS went down about 20k (went from ~120k to ~100k) on Elegon. I used to use HotW + SotF + haste build. I'm wondering if HotW would be better for Elegon still?

My experience is opposite from yours. I swapped to HotW to help us get 6 sparks down during P1 (heroic) and for the tranq for the final transition. I went from top 5 to dead last in the raid. I am not saying this because HotW is worse, or better. How/when you use your cooldowns in a given fight based on your raids strat will make a huge difference. Crit also plays a big part for HotW. I have done 26 straight Wrath casts on a stand still fight and not crit with a single one. That makes a HUGE difference.

DoC is not a user friendly talent. To someone just getting started using it, it's a down right jerk. To compound it trying it for the first time on a fight with as much movement and target swapping as Elegon I am not surprised you experienced some growing pains. I would stick to HotW for Elegon for now as it is what you are used to and has provided you the best results. If you get comfortable with DoC and want to try it again, go for it.

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Re: Question Regarding DoC & Soul of the forest

Postby Tinderhoof » Wed Nov 28, 2012 2:22 pm

Darthn wrote:I get stuck using HotW right now for off spec Tranq's. Tranq without HotW + SP weapon isn't worth it. I need to see if I can get out of this "raid cooldown" role and move into a full dps role.

My question just to be clear:

You should just use HT with PS when you have 4-5 (to get a DoC Rip up) or if PS is about to expire correct?

That is the general idea.
Darthn wrote:We really only want to use DoC for finishers, correct? Use NS/HT to get a DoC proc when the boss is 25% to get a DoC rip going and use bites to keep it rolling, right?

Just trying to get the methodology behind it prior to swapping to DoC.

25% more damage is 25% more damage no matter what you put it on. Now we do want to use that buff as often as possible on our bleeds (Rake, Rip), or on an FB when we get the chance. However don't feel you are wasting the buff if you only end up using it on 2 Shreds (cause its going to happen). Just as long as you aren't letting the PS buff drop with out using it are you really wasting anything. Also make sure to make use of NS/HT all through out the fight, not just before you set your final Rip. It is a great tool to get DoC back on your Rip when you arn't able to with PS (this will happen too).

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Re: Question Regarding DoC & Soul of the forest

Postby Instaqueues » Wed Nov 28, 2012 2:41 pm

Thanks Tinderhoof. Since our DPS is all pretty good on Elegon, with a couple people ranking on WoL, I'd like to just get used to DoC if it will provide the best results in the end. Wrath seems to have got nerfed very slightly again, making it's burst barely noticeable now, so I'd like to distance myself completely from it.

The crits on wrath are a huge burst, you can actually see your DPS go up instantly on a crit!

As for Darthn, my personal strategy is to have SR up at the very start of hte fight, activate DoC and get a Rake & shred w/ the buff at the very start. It's got a 30s window so you have plenty of time to activate it and it'll be off CD early in the fight (40-50s in).

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Re: Question Regarding DoC & Soul of the forest

Postby Tinderhoof » Wed Nov 28, 2012 3:44 pm

Instaqueues wrote:As for Darthn, my personal strategy is to have SR up at the very start of hte fight, activate DoC and get a Rake & shred w/ the buff at the very start. It's got a 30s window so you have plenty of time to activate it and it'll be off CD early in the fight (40-50s in).

I assume you are talking about using NS/HT at the start of the fight. You don't need to do this. Just hardcast an HT before the tanks get ready to pull. That will give you the 30 seconds and 2 stacks with out having to waste your NS cooldown. That will give your first Rake and Shred the buff and then you can use NS to buff your first Rip while you still have TF and your Pre pot up.

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Re: Question Regarding DoC & Soul of the forest

Postby Instaqueues » Wed Nov 28, 2012 6:46 pm

OMG Tinderhoof, that's so simple that it's genius lol! Although...it makes me question why I couldn't think of something that simple on my own >.<

Love this site! Been checking it out ever since I switched from Tanking to feral (haven't played feral since ICC) and learning new things every day.

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Re: Question Regarding DoC & Soul of the forest

Postby Xube » Thu Nov 29, 2012 4:44 pm

Hey Tinder, sorry for the late reply.

I get what you mean. I am gemming for hit and then reforging away from it as well.

So the reason behind that is simple. I use AskMrRobot.com to optimize my gear because its quick and easy. Am i too assume there arithmetic is wrong? I have never really read about them on the site here.

Thanks,

Xube

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Re: Question Regarding DoC & Soul of the forest

Postby kaiadam » Thu Nov 29, 2012 5:17 pm

Mr. Robot is wrong. Agility is king - every single gem socket you have should contain agility in some form. Some socket bonuses are small enough (eg 60 crit) to ignore and go straight agility. Always agility.

Regarding the original question, go soul of the forest. I've tried incarnation on the fight that is most conducive to its use, (heroic wind lord) and I still feel that sotf works out better.

As far as DoC vs HoTW is concerned:

I'm in a top raiding guild, doing heroic sha of fear, and I am not ashamed to admit that I'm still cannot use DoC to its full capacity, or even 75% of its full capacity, without it adversely affecting my raid performance.

In essence, HoTW is almost always a dps boost for me over DoC. Personal results may vary but I'm willing to call bs on anyone who feels they can DoC on a progression boss fight and end up higher than HoTW. Use whatever gets through farm faster, but on fights that matter, HoTW will carry the day.

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Re: Question Regarding DoC & Soul of the forest

Postby Instaqueues » Thu Nov 29, 2012 6:20 pm

Xube wrote:Hey Tinder, sorry for the late reply.

I get what you mean. I am gemming for hit and then reforging away from it as well.

So the reason behind that is simple. I use AskMrRobot.com to optimize my gear because its quick and easy. Am i too assume there arithmetic is wrong? I have never really read about them on the site here.

Thanks,

Xube



Xube,
I used to hate Mr. Robot, but I've learned how to edit stat weights more effectively and it makes all the difference.

Here is how I edit the weights to get results I need from Mr. Robot:

MH DPS 4.76
MH Speed 0
Expertise 7.0
Physical Hit 7.0
Agility 4.95
Attack Power 2.02
Mastery 1.92
Crit 1.64
Haste 1.52
Strength 1.5
PvP Power 0
PvP Resilience 0
Stamina 0

Somebody may be able to give you perfect stats, but these should get you what you need!

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Re: Question Regarding DoC & Soul of the forest

Postby Xube » Thu Nov 29, 2012 6:51 pm

Insta! thank you so much.

That was going to exactly going to be my next proposition if there is a way we can edit the stat weights. Because the site is a great tool, because it does allow us to change the weights. So because Agility is king. And we want certain results we can tweak it to work for us. Instead of sitting there with a pen and paper ( for those of us not so good at things such as reforging - honestly till this day i never know if i did it right and i have been playing for a long long time, always second guessing my self ). But that was awesome that you posted that.

It would be great if we can work out how to edit weights for perfect stats. (Here's hoping one of you big daddy ferals put something like this up here)

For now i will use yours insta!

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Re: Question Regarding DoC & Soul of the forest

Postby Xube » Thu Nov 29, 2012 6:57 pm

Here's a thought i have been wondering for a while never had any other feral to really ask.

Now that professions are more equal to one another. We have some what freedom to do what we wish with them .

I am currently Engineering/ Jewelcrafting.

is Alchemy better at this point over Jewel. ( i would never give up engineering its just too awesome)

and why?

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Re: Question Regarding DoC & Soul of the forest

Postby Elamari » Thu Nov 29, 2012 7:03 pm

I think it would come down to what you are looking for; pure dps or something else like utility. Personally I use JC + Eng. I like the utility Engineering offers. The cape plus speed belt and synapse springs. I know that Synapse Springs are meant to be about equal with the other professions, but it should come out on top because it is used with Tiger's Fury.

As far as pure dps increases, I don't know which two would be most optimal. But I am inclined the think that the difference would be minimal. Maybe Aggixx/Tinder/Leaf or one of the other more knowledgeable people can shed some light on this.

~Elamari
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Re: Question Regarding DoC & Soul of the forest

Postby Tinderhoof » Thu Nov 29, 2012 7:20 pm

Engineering is the highest DPS profession. After that they are all about equal. I have alchemy cause it was my first profession and I have most of the recipes still in the game (not giving it up). However past the 2 hours flasks (which are awesome) there isn't a bigger advantage over anything else. If we have a repeat of DS where the JC gems arn't buffed to match epic gems then it will be the worst DPS profession. However that won't happen until the end of the expantion, so don't worry about swaping out if you don't want to.

If you plan on Bear tanking then Alchemy is the best profession due to the Mastery/Crit elixirs and armor pots. Blacksmithing is the best second profession for Bear tanking, as all of our secondardy stats are better then agility so it lets you stack an extra 2 320 crit gems. JC is a close 3rd, and is more flexiable if you swap specs a lot.

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Re: Question Regarding DoC & Soul of the forest

Postby aggixx » Sat Dec 01, 2012 8:12 am

Tinderhoof wrote:If you plan on Bear tanking then Alchemy is the best profession due to the Mastery/Crit elixirs and armor pots.

Just to be clear hear, Alchemy does not increase the potency of your potions.
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Re: Question Regarding DoC & Soul of the forest

Postby Tinderhoof » Sun Dec 02, 2012 5:12 am

Wasn't saying it did. It does buff the elixirs, and its easy to make your own armor pots.

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