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Pawkets' Feral DPS Guide / FAQ

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Re: Pawkets' Feral DPS Guide / FAQ (Under Construction!)

Postby Dazzlie » Tue Oct 08, 2013 3:18 am

so i just got a hc wf AoC, should I go for TED or not? i'm confused :(

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Re: Pawkets' Feral DPS Guide / FAQ (Under Construction!)

Postby Alpheus » Tue Oct 08, 2013 4:43 am

Dazzlie wrote:so i just got a hc wf AoC, should I go for TED or not? i'm confused :(


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Re: Pawkets' Feral DPS Guide / FAQ (Under Construction!)

Postby Paloro » Tue Oct 08, 2013 10:06 am

Dazzlie wrote:so i just got a hc wf AoC, should I go for TED or not? i'm confused :(


If someone else in your group has worse trinkets then you, i.e. not best in slot, I would pass it to them. I was lucky enough to coin both a H AoC and a H WF Haromm's, but I only really use Haromm's on 2 fights (those extra defensive cd's are literally a life saver during progression).
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Re: Pawkets' Feral DPS Guide / FAQ (Under Construction!)

Postby Cain » Wed Oct 09, 2013 8:02 pm

Probably a noob question, but I was reading icy veins and noticed it recommends mangle as the builder now. When did this change?

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Re: Pawkets' Feral DPS Guide / FAQ (Under Construction!)

Postby Ekthelion » Wed Oct 09, 2013 8:56 pm

Some time ago. Mangle does less dmg but generates CP faster therefore is recommended as a CP builder. You should still however use Shred in high energy situations (Berserk, Bloodlust etc.).
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Re: Pawkets' Feral DPS Guide / FAQ (Under Construction!)

Postby Cain » Wed Oct 09, 2013 10:34 pm

Was there a patch that changed it, or was it more a result of a certain gear level being reached?

How does the slightly faster cp's result in more damage overall? It seems like faster cp's would smooth your rotation if you're having trouble keeping everything up, but if you don't have a problem I'm just seeing the 20% damage for less than 20% more energy.

I guess you'd get in more FB's though, but it seems like it'd only be a couple over the course of the fight.


Sorry if this has already been hashed out elsewhere a long time ago. I used to be big into the theory crafting when I actually raided hard core, but now that I don't I haven't kept up with it and that one threw me for a loop because it was such a long held thing of the DPE advantage of shred.

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Re: Pawkets' Feral DPS Guide / FAQ (Under Construction!)

Postby Stenhaldi » Wed Oct 09, 2013 10:43 pm

It's been the case all expansion. If you assume all combo points are spent on ferocious bite, then mangle and shred come out to be essentially equal.

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Re: Pawkets' Feral DPS Guide / FAQ (Under Construction!)

Postby raffy » Wed Oct 09, 2013 11:01 pm

One of the biggest DPS knobs we have is capitalizing on our procs. A little bit of luck and snapshot mechanics can turn true 30% uptimes into 70%+ effective uptimes.

You can have 100% SR, Rip, and Rake presence, but if you don't clip weak DoTs and mistakenly overwrite strong DoTs, you can get beat by someone with 90% uptimes, but is excellent at capitalizing on their procs (note: those percentages are just for illustration.)

Bottom line: Mangle helps maximize the likelihood that you (as a human) can reach 5cp during a proc.

Essentially you're trading a very small amount of damage for a cheaper generator, so you can react better during urgent times, which ends up being more damage in practice. The simulators (you can check all 3 Mangle/Shred variants in Catus on your own gear) confirm that Shred is the best, but Mangle+Shred and pure Mangle are extremely close.
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Re: Pawkets' Feral DPS Guide / FAQ (Under Construction!)

Postby Cetlysm » Sun Oct 13, 2013 5:06 am

Assuming 565ish ilvl, how strong is RoRo heroic with HWF-AoC compared to H-Haromm's + HWF-AoC?
I might be doing something wrong on catus but I'm getting way better results with H-Haromm's + HWF-AoC.

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Re: Pawkets' Feral DPS Guide / FAQ (Under Construction!)

Postby raffy » Sun Oct 13, 2013 6:14 am

Your analysis looks correctish but it depends on upgrades. Here are a few examples using your gear:

[549] Renataki's Soul Charm (Heroic Thunderforged) / [549] Rune of Re-Origination (Heroic Thunderforged): 364.0K
[572] Assurance of Consequence (Heroic Warforged) / [572] Haromm's Talisman (Heroic Warforged): 366.0K (no upgrade)
[572] Assurance of Consequence (Heroic Warforged) / [543] Rune of Re-Origination (Heroic): 369.1K (armory)
[572] Haromm's Talisman (Heroic Warforged) / [543] Rune of Re-Origination (Heroic): 373.4K
[580] Assurance of Consequence (Heroic Warforged) / [543] Rune of Re-Origination (Heroic): 373.8K
[580] Assurance of Consequence (Heroic Warforged) / [580] Haromm's Talisman (Heroic Warforged): 374.8K (upgraded)
[580] Assurance of Consequence (Heroic Warforged) / [549] Rune of Re-Origination (Heroic Thunderforged): 376.6K
[580] Haromm's Talisman (Heroic Warforged) / [549] Rune of Re-Origination (Heroic Thunderforged): 380.1K

You need to be careful with AoC, it has alignment issues. If that long ICD doesn't align with Berserk, it's not nearly as good. Note: look how much better non-upgraded Haromm/Rune is over AoC/Rune.
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Re: Pawkets' Feral DPS Guide / FAQ (Under Construction!)

Postby Cetlysm » Sun Oct 13, 2013 2:19 pm

Do RPPM trinkets still have a multiplier based on ilvl?

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Re: Pawkets' Feral DPS Guide / FAQ (Under Construction!)

Postby aggixx » Sun Oct 13, 2013 4:23 pm

They never did except for Rune and UVLS.
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Re: Pawkets' Feral DPS Guide / FAQ (Under Construction!)

Postby Cetlysm » Mon Oct 14, 2013 1:26 pm

I've been testing 572 AoC this weekend with no valor to upgrade, but lets be honest the upgrades barely do anything, 1000 more agi that's pretty much it the extra CD reduction is microscopic, and I hate it, the lower defensives are nice, and TF down to 20 sec means lots of rips buffed with it, but the cooldown, the long ass cooldown its its bane, I feel like it adds more rng when it comes to the execute phase, not being able to get it to proc ever on execute, or when its too late is so bad, not getting it to proc on pull is also terrible.
I'm feeling like keeping renataki for a while until I can get haromms.

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Re: Pawkets' Feral DPS Guide / FAQ (Under Construction!)

Postby JTF195 » Mon Oct 14, 2013 2:49 pm

I have to agree. While I really enjoy the cooldown reduction, the ICD on the proc makes me just sad. It frequently refuses to proc on pull, and then it always feels like the cooldown is agonizingly long. Even though RPPM trinkets often make you wait that long, they also sometimes don't, whereas with AoC, I actually have a timer set up that shows me "hey, this cannot possibly proc for another 115 seconds, gl;hf"

Hate it.

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Re: Pawkets' Feral DPS Guide / FAQ (Under Construction!)

Postby Simbba » Thu Oct 17, 2013 8:31 pm

So i just replaced my ilvl 530 RoR for Haromm's and AoC reg but my dps appears to be lower should i go back to RoR?

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Re: Pawkets' Feral DPS Guide / FAQ (Under Construction!)

Postby Ekthelion » Fri Oct 18, 2013 4:44 am

Use Catus to sim. And yes - you should put back RoR and Haromm as a second (dps wise).
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Re: Pawkets' Feral DPS Guide / FAQ (Under Construction!)

Postby aggixx » Sat Oct 19, 2013 1:36 am

Some guide updates! Added section on how to sim you character, and how to figure out which gear configuration is better and such. Also finished out the Gearing section and resimmed the High Level trinkets with the latest SVN build of SimC.
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Re: Pawkets' Feral DPS Guide / FAQ

Postby Sibylle » Mon Oct 21, 2013 6:02 pm

Just what I needed. Thanks, aggixx! :)
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Re: Pawkets' Feral DPS Guide / FAQ

Postby Tachyne » Tue Oct 22, 2013 1:13 pm

Greetings FluidDr00d! First post be gentle.

3 Quick questions for you experienced lads if you have a sec, even if you dont suck it up and answer anyway /wink ;p. SoTf vs tree thingies for Single target and multi target/swaps, which is currently better for each and also is it a dps gain to have trash up 100% at the expense of some fero bites, pre 25% ofc. And lastly being newish to feral im currently using HoTw but i hear DoC is superior, im wondering how much of a deeps gain is DoC over HoTw if used correctly. thanks alot fellers Any input would be greatly appreciated

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Re: Pawkets' Feral DPS Guide / FAQ

Postby Steakbomb » Tue Oct 22, 2013 3:57 pm

Tachyne wrote:Greetings FluidDr00d! First post be gentle.

3 Quick questions for you experienced lads if you have a sec, even if you dont suck it up and answer anyway /wink ;p. SoTf vs tree thingies for Single target and multi target/swaps, which is currently better for each and also is it a dps gain to have trash up 100% at the expense of some fero bites, pre 25% ofc. And lastly being newish to feral im currently using HoTw but i hear DoC is superior, im wondering how much of a deeps gain is DoC over HoTw if used correctly. thanks alot fellers Any input would be greatly appreciated


On most fights, Trees seem to give you better overall DPS if used correctly although I personally don't use them.

The Thrash difference is VERY close in any situation. I believe the last numbers that were posted show having Thrash up all the time is a slight DPS up although if you prefer the play style of using it only on Clearcasting, then you won't see much of a drop.

DoC is deff a big DPS gain currently, especially with T16 4pc. I am sitting in 562 ilvl and it's around a 20k dps upgrade for me. I usually switch off and on between HotW and DoC depending on the fight but made the switch full time to DoC last night.

I would suggest that if you are considering making the change to Trees, switch on a farm fight to practice. Same with DoC. If you have never played FoN or DoC, making the switch is a big change in the play style and it will be much easier to practice the new talents on farm content vs progress.
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Re: Pawkets' Feral DPS Guide / FAQ

Postby bacevicius » Fri Oct 25, 2013 9:22 am

Actually running AOC and even a 536 RORO is more dps than two 561s esp the TED its gone by the time it procs... yes these new trinkets don't 'burst" like you may want..but I have run serveral sims to the tune of plus or minus 2 to3 k deeps with the AOC and Harrom or TED together in stead of leaving roro on with AOC ... you may not notice but that roro rune procs back to back 3 times sometimes,, in a boss fight in SOO theres no way in HELL sim can anaylse that ... IF you know how to use RORO properly you will not need another SOO trink until you have a 567 AOC or 567 Harrom..... I have ran this on target dmmys, 25 man raid bosses and averaged out the 536 RORO has bleed 264 percent with a ridiculous up time resulting in more burst at beginning of a raid bosss and overall a massive 5 to 7k increase over two 561's with those Proccy agi 10sec things ... RORO its static 1700 agi with a bleed that's up at least 15 - 18 maybe 20 percent of the time on some fights . sim and Robot are unable to calculate the back to backs on roro and if your doing it right you can bleed like hell I ve got one top 35 and many under 100 at the beginning of this patch in 25 man so it does work with with HOTW and that was before the rip buff

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Re: Pawkets' Feral DPS Guide / FAQ

Postby Tachyne » Fri Oct 25, 2013 12:39 pm

Alright lads, So ive started using DoC to try and get used to it, so far id say its ok oj-ish but im unable to sync every DOC buff with Rip, is this normal? or am i being a baddie? also if i cast a rip WITHOUT a doc buff but i get back to 5 combo points with still high duration left on rip, is it correct to over write the old rip with a doc buffed rip? cheers lads take care.
-greg

Oh yea side note: somebody said that Hotw is superior on fight with multi target/swaps, is this accurate?

Edit: Answered on MMo champ, thanks anyway lads.

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Re: Pawkets' Feral DPS Guide / FAQ

Postby RareBeast » Fri Oct 25, 2013 7:03 pm

I would imagine that say on a fight like Spoils of Pandaria, there is almost never time for a DoC buffed rip to tick for long so you lose a lot of the benefit of DoC. HotW buffs all of your attacks so it isn't affected in the same way. Still a crap fight for us though....

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Re: Pawkets' Feral DPS Guide / FAQ

Postby Paloro » Mon Oct 28, 2013 9:18 am

RareBeast wrote:I would imagine that say on a fight like Spoils of Pandaria, there is almost never time for a DoC buffed rip to tick for long so you lose a lot of the benefit of DoC. HotW buffs all of your attacks so it isn't affected in the same way. Still a crap fight for us though....


We aren't warriors or rogues, but I wouldn't exactly say it's a crap fight for us. DoC should be used to buff Thrash and Rake on this fight to get the best results. The only time you should really have an add up >20 sec is the large.
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Re: Pawkets' Feral DPS Guide / FAQ

Postby Sibylle » Mon Oct 28, 2013 11:24 am

Hmhm. But Thrash and Rake are dots too, and stuff dies so fast on this fight, they barely get to tick. I, too, find this fight terrible and playing to all my weaknesses. Boxes are opened one by one, and small/medium adds die quickly so there's rarely more than two up at a time, so not great for all-out AoE. And by the time I put up a full set of bleeds on a single one of them, they're long dead too.

I suppose you guys are among the world's best ferals and I'm, well, not (lol), but I really don't see how I could do good dps on this fight :-/
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