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Chogall tenticles + AOE in general

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Chogall tenticles + AOE in general

Postby wraithaur » Sun Apr 03, 2011 9:23 pm

So there are a few fights that require AOE from us. Whelps Halfus, Adds Maloriak, tenticles chogal.

Question is about aoe and how to get the best possible. Berserker + Cat swipe is pro...but only for one application per 3 min assuming your not going to need it for a burn phase.

I have been off from raiding for a month or so (yeah new baby), so it will be my 1st hit at chogal which the guild has been killing while i was away. I understand the tenticles have no threat tables, so would the best AOE be to cat swipe till empty, tigers fury, cat swipe....then i was wondering about the potential of switching to bear, enraging, thrash, bear swipe and then back to cat, or stay bear. Our cat aoe seems really poor, but i was wondering what bear aoe is like in full kitty gear with over 15kAP in a raid. Cat swipe is weapon dmg X 335%, bear thrash and swipe is AP based.
Considering i am using a 346 weapon still, on adds with no threat concerns is staying kitty the way to go. To me the notion of going to bear form seems stupid, but the current state of cat swipe dmg doesnt make me feel warm and fuzzy inside.

For Halfus and Maloriak i assume most people are tasked with being the interupt wench.... But if not how do you max your aoe dmg? Tips and thoughts please.

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Re: Chogall tenticles + AOE in general

Postby wraithaur » Sun Apr 03, 2011 9:36 pm

meh napkin maths to the resque. bear solution is useless, i was not taking into account the affect of vengence when i am tanking. Which there will be none of on a mob with no threat that is not damaging you.

So scratch most of that post...and re-visit...how to max kitty aoe. Tips plz

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Re: Chogall tenticles + AOE in general

Postby Arthaei » Sun Apr 03, 2011 9:55 pm

Basically you'll want to ask your raid leader to be exempt from having to switch to the adds for Cho'gall. I currently have that privilege and just hit world 1st for kitty dps on Cho heroic. It helped that I was pulling almost 26k as top dps for the fight too making his decision easier. Cat swipe is in a bad situation atm, the majority of the time it is better to tab target and rake each mob on any fight with adds, although if there are 10-15+ or so adds up, Swipe becomes pretty decent again. For Cho'gall we are without a doubt the worst spec to have to switch to adds, the exact moment our Blood in the Water talent kicks in we have to go running off to try and 'burst' something down by either spamming Mangle or Swipe when literally every other spec in the whole raid does a vastly more effective job of doing it. Rake isn't really an option as you'd need to get it on instantly as they need to be dead a lot faster than the duration your Rake will tick for.

For Maloriak, if you mean on heroic, you can try and just tab target the adds in the black phase and Rake them up, or actually try and get full 5cp Rips up on them too as they have a lot of hp and take a while to die. If it's normal, just maybe saving Berserk or a potion for the green phase and swiping away is the best bet really.

If you can't convince your raid leader to let you stay on the boss in the last phase of Cho'gall, then he's either an idiot, or your ranged dps aren't pulling their weight by a long shot. Maybe if they made cat swipe benefit from mastery somehow in the future or apply a bleed like Thrash we might be in a half-decent position, but as it stands for now our 'aoe' is absolute garbage.
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Re: Chogall tenticles + AOE in general

Postby wraithaur » Sun Apr 03, 2011 10:27 pm

I am in the lucky position that i am the GM and most times the RL. But since i am only just back from a holiday one of our officiers is the acting RL until i am upto speed on our new kills.

Unfortunately we are not on heroics, we are a 2night a week raiding guild but i certainly do look forward to doing the heroics, i would say by the end of the month we will be hitting it up.

Your comments on swipe are what i expected, i rarely if ever use it, but i thought perhaps there was a trick to make it viable. Only raid use i have found was with zerker up on adds in green vial phase on maloriak.

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Re: Chogall tenticles + AOE in general

Postby Sylvaneart » Mon Apr 04, 2011 11:10 am

I am forced to switch to CHo's adds myself. They are rarely grouped together enough to use swipe on more then 3 so i single target them. It sucks i Know. As for Heroic Mal they realize our AoE is so bad I am now tanking the boss.
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Re: Chogall tenticles + AOE in general

Postby wraithaur » Mon Apr 04, 2011 9:15 pm

Last night went pretty good. I was able to stay on the boss and topped the meters for all our attempts. Unfortunately the net in Australia went to hell part way through the night and 4 X 5% attempts did not present us with a the kill that i was sure would come.
If only i could get rid of my crappy blues i would be doing more than 16-17k

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Re: Chogall tenticles + AOE in general

Postby Andolie » Tue Apr 05, 2011 10:59 am

I'm also required to go on adds in the last phase of Chogall. Since the adds do come up fairly regularly you can make sure that your bleeds have enough time on them for you to leave to burn down the nearest add and return. It still sucks, but it is what it is. I also try to do whatever I can to get energy back when I go back to Chogall to refresh bleeds or reapply them if I took too long (TF is usually up).

As for Halfrus, we've been doing the heroic so I'll try to remember what we did in normal. If memory serves, we would burn down the larger drakes and leave the whelps for last. If the whelps are tanked near Halfrus, you can try to put up your dots, Berserk (if it's available), then swipe on the whelps for a bit. Just watch your timers. You don't want to lose those bleeds. I use a similar tactic on the heroic version and it seems to work fairly well. I have been very lucky to not be on interrupt duty tho. :)

I've used Arthaei's tactic for Maloriak. It's works well, but our dps just doesn't compare to other classes for aoe.
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Re: Chogall tenticles + AOE in general

Postby felhoof » Tue Apr 05, 2011 1:23 pm

Basically you'll want to ask your raid leader to be exempt from having to switch to the adds for Cho'gall.
This is wrong. What you want to be exempt from is AOEing the tentacles. Everyone should DPS the tentacles, especially on your first kills.

You have amazingly good mobility and a huge burst due to ravage combined with a decent interrupt right off the bat. All of these things make you a solid piece to kill one tentacle or at least lock it down early. Yes, you're not going to get amazing AoE damage on them - but you can get great single target damage. Save your TFs and ravages for that, and you'll get quite good burst.

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Re: Chogall tenticles + AOE in general

Postby Arthaei » Wed Apr 06, 2011 8:07 am

While I agree everyone dpsing the tentacles especially on a first kill is good advice, I wouldn't exactly say my previous advice was 'wrong', it depends on how much you can rely on the rest of the dpsers in your team. I certainly did some single target and a few swipes on our first Chogall hc kill but it was plain to see that out of all dps specs in the raid we are by far the worst to have to switch off the boss. But yes, dps on tentacles is everyone in your raid's no.1 priority, good dps on those will net you your kill.
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Re: Chogall tenticles + AOE in general

Postby felhoof » Wed Apr 06, 2011 1:33 pm

You're not the worst to switch off the boss; you're one of the best. You can easily keep bleeds up on the boss while ravage and shred and skull bash take care of one tentacle. Hell, you can take care of one tentacle almost solo. As long as you time your bleeds so that they're refreshed about the time that you jump off to a tentacle your bleeds will not even have low uptime. This is one of the best cases you can have - an add that dies in about 15-20 seconds at most.

Now, you shouldn't dally about killing a bunch of them - kill one or maybe two and then get back. But otherwise you should totally kill one. Use swipe on OOC procs, make sure bleeds are refreshed right before you move over, try to pool energy & save TF and go to town. In a perfect scenario it won't even be a DPS loss since you're gaining the ravage damage.

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Re: Chogall tenticles + AOE in general

Postby Laurind » Thu May 05, 2011 10:41 am

with the buff on Swipe from last patch, would it be better to swipe them out? or single target them?
ravage is not much of an option, as I'm tanking in that fight, and don't have extra talents to put in there :S

Talkin about normal (yes, not much of a progression guild)

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Re: Chogall tenticles + AOE in general

Postby Sylvaneart » Thu May 05, 2011 11:20 am

If you can hit 3+ targets swipe now that 4.1 has hit.
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