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4.2 druid specific staff + firecat

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Re: 4.2 druid specific staff + firecat

Postby Raserei » Fri Jun 10, 2011 10:34 pm

Disclaimer: I am not, and have not been, anything more than a casual raider for the last two expansions, and am now retired from seriously raiding entirely. The ideas and opinions below are based entirely upon what I have read and seen discussed on the subject. That being said, I do like to think that I have a fairly firm grasp upon the system that is in place as well as an idea of the things considered when balancing content. Read at your discretion.

I had a thought on the subject of making it fair for Ferals to ever get a legendary item. Best I can think of, is to make it so that all tanks and both staff wielding agility users would get something.

It wouldn't be terribly hard to make a quest chain that involves stealing some highly powerful item from the end boss of a raid and using the items you collect throughout the usual convoluted legendary chain to 'modify' it to be usable for your character. The two sorts of items I think you could have available are a chestpiece (or weapon*) for the plate tanks, and a staff for ferals and hunters. Since these are legendaries, they would obviously need procs - I assume that it would be best to stick with a simple damage proc, as well as the increased stats. *Not very many bosses carry around both a sword/axe/mace and a staff, although to justify a boss wearing both tanking plate and an agi staff might require someone crazy enough to have a sword/axe/mace along with a staff anyways...

The way to make this balanced without having it 'oooo, we need this just to complete X boss' type of strong is to edit how stats would work on those items. Both items would be the same (or at least close) ilevel as the other items available at the tier it comes from, therefore improving the stats only marginally. To make it so that one doesn't benefit more than the other, the stamina 'increase' from similar-tier staffs could be reduced to be in line with the increase that the plate chest would give, i.e. if the chest gave a 40 point increase to stam/str and the staff would normally give a 68 increase, it would only give a 40 point instead.

Another key part to doing that is to ensure that the damage procs from these items did not scale with tank innate threat bonuses, making it essentially nothing more than bonus damage for the raid. It could even be threat neutral damage, much the same that Holy Nova is.

Most importantly, the quest to get the item would have to be completed on heroic mode, meaning that if you get that far then you should be able to do so again and the item wouldn't allow you to progress farther than you would normally on that tier. Sure, it'll make farming it a marginal amount easier, since your tank has about the same as a profession perk upgrade in stats over the norm, but nothing game breaking. Following tiers are, as I understand it, designed with the fact that you will be mostly geared from the previous tier or at least gearing as you move along, so the minor stat upgrade should not make a significant difference in the first heroic boss or two that you down - which could then drop a comparable piece for each class, at least stat-wise, making the legendary only truely unique for it's special effect (which would not directly affect the tank in any way other than a bit of damage meter padding).

On the dps side, the small boost in stats would again be compensated for quickly by the loot from the first boss or two, and quite possibly even be out done in pure stats of an unedited item with superior ilevel. This would basically mean that, as before, the only real benefit is the damage proc, which if it was designed around a high proc chance and a decent internal cooldown, would be about the same across the board. The only way to really increase the benefit of the proc would be to have more of them.




Of course, the ego padding that comes with owning a legendary would finally be available to ferals and tanks in a mostly role specific manner

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Re: 4.2 druid specific staff + firecat

Postby Ruan » Mon Jun 13, 2011 3:43 pm

Legendaries are by their very nature unfair and unbalanced.

  • Thunderfury - Warrior, Rogue, Paladin, Hunter. Warriors were the only legitimate tanks, and it was a foolish guild that didn't give it to their tank, also made for a beastly fury warrior.
  • Sulfuras - Warrior, Paladin, Shaman, Druid (lol). Warriors were the only legitimate 2H DPS, although shamans with classic windfury were pretty lol.
  • Atiesh - Mage, Warlock, Priest, Druid. Might as well have not existed, but it does set a precedent for multiple versions of a legendary.
  • Warglaives - Rogue, Warrior. Made a night and day difference to rogues and some fury warriors.
  • Thoridal - Hunters only. OK, other classes can equip it, but only hunters shot things with it.
  • Val'Anyr - Paladin, Druid, Priest, Shaman. Probably the only "fair" legendary, since all healers could use it equally well.
  • Shadowmourne - Warrior, Death Knight, Paladin. Also known as Gladiatormourne, was also great for DK tanks, setting a precedent for that.
  • Dragonwrath - Mage, Druid, Priest, Warlock, Shaman? I think this has the most ridiculous, unbalanced proc in the history of WoW, but at least all offensive casters get use of it, Shamans have to give up their shield though.

There's no precedent at all for fair treatment with legendary weapons, in fact there has historically been a massive Warrior bias with a trend to make legendaries available to more classes.

If we ever get a legendary, my prediction would be a polearm with Strength and Agility permutations. This would make it available to Warriors, Paladins, Death Knights, Druids and Hunters. Maybe it will even have "Equip: Increases your Strength or Agility by ___, the highest stat is chosen" in lieu of direct stats.

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Re: 4.2 druid specific staff + firecat

Postby Alaron » Wed Jun 15, 2011 5:05 pm

Ruan, my initial thoughts agreed with yours, but I think the FIRECAT staff is our "legendary."

My guess: 1H DPS Mace, with +str and +agi versions.

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Re: 4.2 druid specific staff + firecat

Postby Ruan » Thu Jun 16, 2011 11:50 am

Ruan, my initial thoughts agreed with yours, but I think the FIRECAT staff is our "legendary."

My guess: 1H DPS Mace, with +str and +agi versions.


The proc is totally legendary status, but it lacks the properties of a real legendary, namely a free ticket to ranked DPS / Gladiator and rarity; I hate to say it but given about three months even pugging kitties will be firecats.

I think form changing items / achievements might become more common. Blizzard has expressed interest in letting feral druids show their accomplishments visibly, we might start getting one every tier.

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Re: 4.2 druid specific staff + firecat

Postby Sylvaneart » Thu Jun 16, 2011 12:06 pm

When they 1st mentioned the staff the didn't say what it would do besides allow you to change to Fandrel's form. I was so so so so wanting it to have more then 1 use. FIRECAT if you are cat. Molten Scorpion if you went bear. Maybe flaming tree for healers. I also wanted more legendary effects

Cat Form: Changes you to FIRECAT!!! While in cat form your Mangle and swipe will put a fire DoT on target.
Bear Form: Changes you to Molten Scorpion!!! Increasing armor by X% and putting a fire dot on any enemy that hits you with a melee attack.
Tree from: Changes you to TREE ON FIRE!!! you are invigorated with the power of fire mana regen andhaste increased by X%
Boomkin form: Changes you to I dont have a clue i have never boomed.
Be sure to subscribe to The Fluid Druid RSS feed and follow me on twitter! @Sylvaneart

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Re: 4.2 druid specific staff + firecat

Postby BigTwoHorns » Thu Jun 16, 2011 12:59 pm

Boomkin form: Changes you to I dont have a clue i have never boomed.



My guess is Blizz would come out with something like this.

Boomkin: Turns you into a ALL POWERFUL SPELL WIELDING SUPER OWL!!!.....Oh wait...
A GOOD PLAN VIOLENTLY EXECUTED NOW IS BETTER THAN A PERFECT PLAN EXECUTED NEXT WEEK.
GEORGE S. PATTON

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/akama/bigtwohorns/simple

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Re: 4.2 druid specific staff + firecat

Postby shinryu » Thu Jun 16, 2011 2:48 pm

Could be a corrupted version of a firehawk or something for boomkin, but those probably don't have casting animations implemented...

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Re: 4.2 druid specific staff + firecat

Postby Qbear » Wed Jun 29, 2011 2:16 am

Sigh killed the boss no staff for me, hopefully you guys have better luck on drops. I got tons of footage so the youtube chan should be updated here soon. Keep in mind that these are first kills and my guild didn't do any ptr testing minus alysrazor so it's a lot of me running in a circle just trying to get dps out, which of course when the kill is raw like that leads to better recordings.

Sorry I've been MIA from the forums, I'll most likely be gone for a bit life's been busy as hell but love you guys and I've been reading all your posts keep feral druid strong and best of luck on getting this thing to drop.

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Re: 4.2 druid specific staff + firecat

Postby shinryu » Wed Jun 29, 2011 4:30 am

Hmm...the only bit of Firelands I got to do was killing mobs to build up rep since everyone else thought today would be super laggy so we (or they anyways, I was all for going ahead full steam) decided to wait out a day. And of course, in a turn of events, today was lag-free for the most part >.>

So, anyone have a recommended path of progression? Maybe it was cause we didn't have the team together or weren't on vent or something, but it seemed to take a while to get through the trash. I think we're gonna try Alysrazor first and see from there...

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Re: 4.2 druid specific staff + firecat

Postby Qbear » Wed Jun 29, 2011 4:58 am

Alys changed up a small amount from the ptr; however, it was enough to make it not the lootship of the raid tier. If I had to suggest a way to do it I'd personally vote for

1)Lord Rhyolith due to the damage you do to the legs you actually push him pretty quickly into p2 where he seems to die before you've even realized he's pushed.

2)Baleroc there's a crap ton of stuff going on in this fight; however, once you see it a few times you really get a feel for the flow of everything and it goes down pretty easy.

3) Shannox yeah I still think he's suppose to be tauntable, in 25m we used 4 tanks; 2 for boss, 2 for adds. Trading threat wasn't much of an issue as once the tank took over threat he stopped doing anything and just got faced punch until he lost aggro.

4) Ally even though this was the only fight my guild did on the PTR it actually took us the longest. The adds that spawned the flame waves also cast pyroblast that need to be kicked. If they are allowed to free cast they gain a stacking haste buff that makes the damage near unhealable. The tanks can no longer simply solo their hatchling so there is a very high dps check to get everything dead before transition. For the transition they added more tornadoes which leaves the easy method for avoiding them out of the question due to the way they stagger.

Then gatekeeper which is needed to unlock majordomo which is needed to unlock rag.

Of course this is just my personal insights by no means do I want you yelling at your raid leaders to switch the route they wanted to use based off of what I just happen to think.

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Re: 4.2 druid specific staff + firecat

Postby felhoof » Wed Jun 29, 2011 1:37 pm

You have to do the first four before Baleroc. So the order has to be (shannox, beth, aly, rhy)->bale->fandral->rag.

Of those first four, Shannox is the best start as he's linked to a tON of trash.

Our guild did Shannox->beth->rhy->aly. Beth was probably the easiest of the 4 and was a 3-shot. Shannox was trickier due to the non-taunting stuff but not too bad. Rhyolith was cake other than getting driving working.

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Re: 4.2 druid specific staff + firecat

Postby Qbear » Wed Jun 29, 2011 2:17 pm

Yeah I wrote Baleroc; however, totally meant Beth'tilac (opps)

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