Register

4.2 changes

Face-rippin fun.
Posts: 39
Joined: Sun Apr 17, 2011 5:22 am

Re: 4.2 changes

Postby Suhmon » Fri May 20, 2011 9:51 pm

More ptr craziness. They just did another patch apparently so I tried again. My first like 10 FBs at 100 energy only took the 25 energy and crit for about 44k. After that, they started consuming extra energy. It makes no sense whatesoever. I made sure I didn't have OoC or anything up.

Another interesting thing is the ravage tooltip says it does 975% weapon damage +31000 dmg. That doesn't seem right =P. It also seemed to only be critting for about 30k which feels lower than on live right now. But who knows.

Revered
Posts: 457
Joined: Sat Jan 29, 2011 7:17 am

Re: 4.2 changes

Postby shinryu » Fri May 20, 2011 10:58 pm

Just out of semi-curiosity, assuming the 4p stays, would that at all increase the value of taking Primal Madness any? As we optimally always TF then Berserk, that's an extra 20 Energy increase, which means a slight less waste of Berserk uptime due to regaining Energy doesn't it? Personally I think it'd still be minimal at best, but just looking at the different possibilities out there...

Posts: 1
Joined: Sat May 21, 2011 3:02 pm

Re: 4.2 changes

Postby Bearcat » Sat May 21, 2011 3:09 pm

Hmm it looks like all our major abilities are being buffed, except Swipe which is being brought back down to reality.

The Strength - AP reduction sucks for me cause now I need to swap Jeklik's Smasher ASAP :/ people rag on me for using that anyway

Looks like there may be light at the end of the tunnel after all!

Exalted
User avatar
Posts: 1541
Joined: Mon May 24, 2010 10:21 pm

Re: 4.2 changes

Postby Tinderhoof » Sat May 21, 2011 3:26 pm

shinryu wrote:Just out of semi-curiosity, assuming the 4p stays, would that at all increase the value of taking Primal Madness any? As we optimally always TF then Berserk, that's an extra 20 Energy increase, which means a slight less waste of Berserk uptime due to regaining Energy doesn't it? Personally I think it'd still be minimal at best, but just looking at the different possibilities out there...


The problem with Primal Madness is that you get 20 extra energy, but it only lasts for the 6 seconds of Tigers Fury. After those 6 seconds if you have any energy left 20 energy will be removed from what ever you have. The biggest benifit it gives is raising the energy cap to 120 so you less of a chance of wasting said energy you get from TF. With Berserk lasting 15 seconds (25 with the new glyph) it is pretty hard to make use of that 20 energy before it is taken away. If you do manage too you will be sitting at 0 energy just 7 seconds into Berserk (not happy fun times).

Revered
Posts: 457
Joined: Sat Jan 29, 2011 7:17 am

Re: 4.2 changes

Postby shinryu » Sat May 21, 2011 5:57 pm

Tinderhoof wrote:
shinryu wrote:Just out of semi-curiosity, assuming the 4p stays, would that at all increase the value of taking Primal Madness any? As we optimally always TF then Berserk, that's an extra 20 Energy increase, which means a slight less waste of Berserk uptime due to regaining Energy doesn't it? Personally I think it'd still be minimal at best, but just looking at the different possibilities out there...


The problem with Primal Madness is that you get 20 extra energy, but it only lasts for the 6 seconds of Tigers Fury. After those 6 seconds if you have any energy left 20 energy will be removed from what ever you have. The biggest benifit it gives is raising the energy cap to 120 so you less of a chance of wasting said energy you get from TF. With Berserk lasting 15 seconds (25 with the new glyph) it is pretty hard to make use of that 20 energy before it is taken away. If you do manage too you will be sitting at 0 energy just 7 seconds into Berserk (not happy fun times).

Well wait, the way I'm reading it though (I haven't spec'ed into it in a long time), it states "Tiger's Fury and Berserk also increases your current and maximum energy by 10 during their durations, etc etc for Rage." So theoretically, at worst when TF drops it drops our Energy by 10 (can't you like use some macro to cancel it out manually to avoid the drop?), but we should still have an extra 10 cap from Berserk right? Plus, as we almost are guaranteed to run out of Energy still by the time Berserk expires even with it lasting longer, the removed Energy impact should be minimal right?

Revered
Posts: 312
Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2011 5:51 pm

Re: 4.2 changes

Postby ShmooDude » Sun May 22, 2011 8:16 pm

shinryu wrote:
Tinderhoof wrote:
shinryu wrote:Just out of semi-curiosity, assuming the 4p stays, would that at all increase the value of taking Primal Madness any? As we optimally always TF then Berserk, that's an extra 20 Energy increase, which means a slight less waste of Berserk uptime due to regaining Energy doesn't it? Personally I think it'd still be minimal at best, but just looking at the different possibilities out there...


The problem with Primal Madness is that you get 20 extra energy, but it only lasts for the 6 seconds of Tigers Fury. After those 6 seconds if you have any energy left 20 energy will be removed from what ever you have. The biggest benifit it gives is raising the energy cap to 120 so you less of a chance of wasting said energy you get from TF. With Berserk lasting 15 seconds (25 with the new glyph) it is pretty hard to make use of that 20 energy before it is taken away. If you do manage too you will be sitting at 0 energy just 7 seconds into Berserk (not happy fun times).

Well wait, the way I'm reading it though (I haven't spec'ed into it in a long time), it states "Tiger's Fury and Berserk also increases your current and maximum energy by 10 during their durations, etc etc for Rage." So theoretically, at worst when TF drops it drops our Energy by 10 (can't you like use some macro to cancel it out manually to avoid the drop?), but we should still have an extra 10 cap from Berserk right? Plus, as we almost are guaranteed to run out of Energy still by the time Berserk expires even with it lasting longer, the removed Energy impact should be minimal right?


Primal Madness works like this (I'm pretty sure):

Say you're at 25/100 Energy with 0/2 Primal Madness and use TF. Now you're at 85/100 Energy. Everyone understands this, its pretty simple. However when you spec into Primal Madness, its where it gets a little funny.

Same 35/100 Starter energy. Hit TF, you now have 115/120 (80 extra) Energy. Now lets use the energy (all on shred and no haste to keep it simple). 1st Second Shred is used (85/120 Energy; -40 for Shred +10 for regen). 2nd Second Shred is used (55/120 Energy). 3rd Second Shred is used (25/120 Energy). 4th Second regen only (35/120 Energy). 5th Second regen only (45/120 Energy). Last Second Shred is used (5/120 Energy). Immediately after TF ends (0/100 Energy; that 5 energy at the end of TF is lost).

Now, if you use Berserk during Tiger's Fury, that extra energy will not drop off till the end of berserk (in which case you'll lose it at the end of Berserk, not at the end of TF). I don't believe that Berserk "gives" 20 (actual, not max) energy on its own if used without TF, though I could be wrong, been a while since I speced into it as well.

I think, what you're saying is, that if you Berserk with the 4 Piece, starting with a potential of extra 20 energy might allow you to extend the duration further and/or get more damage out during a berserk? I highly doubt it'd be any more beneficial than it is now, 20 energy isn't enough for a single ability and assuming you always start off with (almost) full energy it shouldn't affect anything I would think.

Honored
Posts: 116
Joined: Thu May 19, 2011 7:34 am

Re: 4.2 changes

Postby Floofles » Mon May 23, 2011 7:01 am

Broadly correct, though berserk does give 20 energy if used without TF, it doesn't give you an additional 20 if you TF and then berserk, just extends the duration of the loaned 20.

Honored
Posts: 62
Joined: Fri May 28, 2010 5:44 am

Re: 4.2 changes

Postby Andanas » Wed May 25, 2011 7:43 pm

This was just posted on MMO Champion, though I think it's data-mined and not official yet (at least I hope it's not official).

Feral
Ferocious Bite no longer heals you.
Ravage! additional damage seems to be reduced from 3218 to 330, but that's kinda sketchy so you might want to wait for a confirmation.

I really hope Bibi is wrong on this, because that is one massive Ravage nerf.

Exalted
User avatar
Posts: 1541
Joined: Mon May 24, 2010 10:21 pm

Re: 4.2 changes

Postby Tinderhoof » Wed May 25, 2011 7:48 pm

It is datemined. It's likely a tooltip typo and nothing for us to worry about yet. As Blizzard had made no official work about FB healing independent of the glyph I am not really worried about this change either. We are still pretty early on in the PTR. Expect more changes incoming.

Posts: 39
Joined: Sun Apr 17, 2011 5:22 am

Re: 4.2 changes

Postby Suhmon » Wed May 25, 2011 8:46 pm

Ravage isn't actually changing. Mmo-champion has it wrong. The tooltip on the PTRs has been +31,000 dmg. Not +3,000. It was ridiculously high and wasn't actually adding in. It was just a tooltip error. It's likely meant to be 3ksomething and it's getting fixed to that I'm sure.

I was laughing about this with a friend cause my ravages were critting for like 30k something and yet the tooltip said +31,000 or whatever. Was kinda silly.

Posts: 14
Joined: Thu May 19, 2011 3:13 am

Re: 4.2 changes

Postby Searinox » Sun May 29, 2011 2:35 am

With ravage getting a buff, it is now worth it pulling away from the boss every 28 seconds and feral charging in? The dummies make this a tad hard to test since their backs in SW are turned to walls, and the PTR's 500+ ms latency impacts my dps as is. The 4.2 Mew release also indicates absolutely no impact, which can't be right.

Revered
Posts: 457
Joined: Sat Jan 29, 2011 7:17 am

Re: 4.2 changes

Postby shinryu » Sun May 29, 2011 5:14 am

Searinox wrote:With ravage getting a buff, it is now worth it pulling away from the boss every 28 seconds and feral charging in? The dummies make this a tad hard to test since their backs in SW are turned to walls, and the PTR's 500+ ms latency impacts my dps as is. The 4.2 Mew release also indicates absolutely no impact, which can't be right.

It's actually been a DPS increase to pull away and FC/Ravage for a while now, though within the context of doing it like in 3 seconds or so. Which granted doesn't change, it just becomes even more worth it to try doing it even more now lol.

Posts: 14
Joined: Thu May 19, 2011 3:13 am

Re: 4.2 changes

Postby Searinox » Sun May 29, 2011 7:16 am

I've only tested it on the dummy where I was unable to increase my dps and actually dropped it by about 100. I haven't experimented in raids so I have no idea how it scales. Will try tonight.

Honored
Posts: 116
Joined: Thu May 19, 2011 7:34 am

Re: 4.2 changes

Postby Floofles » Sun May 29, 2011 7:38 pm

This is a fallacy, it may sim as being better but you'll not be able to find anyone doing consistantly impressive damage whilst doing that, it's situational at best and a DPS loss otherwise.

Exalted
User avatar
Posts: 568
Joined: Sat May 28, 2011 3:43 pm

Re: 4.2 changes

Postby Konungr » Sun May 29, 2011 11:09 pm

Floofles wrote:This is a fallacy, it may sim as being better but you'll not be able to find anyone doing consistantly impressive damage whilst doing that, it's situational at best and a DPS loss otherwise.


I really am curious how you have come to this conclusion. Feral is not a GCD capped class, we are dependent on the rate of our Energy Regen, and as such have quite a bit of downtime. If you have ~<20 Energy and have nothing that will fall off in the next ~5 Secs, there is no reason NOT to do this, as the only thing you will lose is 3-5 White Attacks, which are significantly less damage than your one free ravage every 28 secs will get you. I don't care who you are, there is never a time when 5 White Attacks will do more damage than a Ravage, especially with high Crit rating.

Exalted
User avatar
Posts: 1145
Joined: Fri Jun 04, 2010 4:28 am

Re: 4.2 changes

Postby Leafkiller » Sun May 29, 2011 11:53 pm

In the current content the discussion of running out and back in for FC/Ravage is pretty much a moot point since there is not a lot of opportunity to do it.

To be clear:

Magmaw: no path
Omnitron - used for target switches for the most part
Atramedes - positioning is critical and FCing can be suicidal
Chimaeron - zero distance FC
Meloriak - the one boss where it is techically feasible
Nef/Ony - zero distance FC

Halfus - lots of path issues there - I almost always get path errors when not tanking it
V&T - zero distance FC
Council - obvious times in phase 1 to run out, target switching
Cho'gall - zero distance FC (although irritating at times when you are too far forward after the charge)

I have not seen Sinestra.
==================

Technically, the sims show a decent dps gain on Patchwork style fights if the lost time is around 2 seconds and DoTs/SoTP are not dropped off the target, but practically speaking Meloriak may be the only place where you would be doing this in the current content - everywhere else you either have path issues, zero distance FCs, or obvious times/places to FC.

I am not sure about Firelands bosses though.

Revered
User avatar
Posts: 358
Joined: Tue Mar 08, 2011 4:12 am

Re: 4.2 changes

Postby Qbear » Mon May 30, 2011 12:25 am

Sinestra is pathing error though this was based on awhile ago honestly haven't tried it since just assumed it hasn't changed, can be used for spitecallers in p2 since one should die before the other spawns and you can get out to prepare your charge.

Exalted
User avatar
Posts: 1541
Joined: Mon May 24, 2010 10:21 pm

Re: 4.2 changes

Postby Tinderhoof » Mon May 30, 2011 3:02 am

Qbear wrote:Sinestra is pathing error though this was based on awhile ago honestly haven't tried it since just assumed it hasn't changed, can be used for spitecallers in p2 since one should die before the other spawns and you can get out to prepare your charge.

The Spitecallers are hit and miss for me. For some reason the slight elevation near the fire they spawn out of creates LOS issues (don't ask me how). If they are tanked a little farther forward they can be FC'd. I also use FC on the big welp pack during the P1-P2 transition to help me get to the back of the room faster.

Exalted
User avatar
Posts: 1541
Joined: Mon May 24, 2010 10:21 pm

Re: 4.2 changes

Postby Tinderhoof » Mon May 30, 2011 3:18 am

Konungr wrote:I really am curious how you have come to this conclusion. Feral is not a GCD capped class, we are dependent on the rate of our Energy Regen, and as such have quite a bit of downtime. If you have ~<20 Energy and have nothing that will fall off in the next ~5 Secs, there is no reason NOT to do this, as the only thing you will lose is 3-5 White Attacks, which are significantly less damage than your one free ravage every 28 secs will get you. I don't care who you are, there is never a time when 5 White Attacks will do more damage than a Ravage, especially with high Crit rating.

I am inclined to agree with Floofles here. For me a fully buffed a non crit ravage is between 19-21k. White hits (Savage Roard) about 3k normal 6k crit. It's pretty easy to see that the two can be pretty close to a wash, assuming perfect execution. This leaves out the chance of a Furie Swipes proc. Normal hit 6k crit 12k. Now you may get a ravage crit and have it pay off. But if it doesn't crit there is a chance its a wash, or you lost a little damage. In the end I don't think its really worth it for most bosses because its very easy for a mechanic will come up or the tank having to move will screw you. I just don't think that it's really worth it enough times to really pratice it.

Honored
Posts: 116
Joined: Thu May 19, 2011 7:34 am

Re: 4.2 changes

Postby Floofles » Mon May 30, 2011 3:43 am

Konungr wrote:
Floofles wrote:This is a fallacy, it may sim as being better but you'll not be able to find anyone doing consistantly impressive damage whilst doing that, it's situational at best and a DPS loss otherwise.


I really am curious how you have come to this conclusion. Feral is not a GCD capped class, we are dependent on the rate of our Energy Regen, and as such have quite a bit of downtime. If you have ~<20 Energy and have nothing that will fall off in the next ~5 Secs, there is no reason NOT to do this, as the only thing you will lose is 3-5 White Attacks, which are significantly less damage than your one free ravage every 28 secs will get you. I don't care who you are, there is never a time when 5 White Attacks will do more damage than a Ravage, especially with high Crit rating.


There's very rarely a situation where you're "safe" enough with your stuff to be able to run out. In addition to that you miss chances for fury swipes and OOC. Like I said, find me someone doing it and proving the theory. The day I see that is the day I quit this game and move to Narnia, it's a fallacy.

Revered
Posts: 457
Joined: Sat Jan 29, 2011 7:17 am

Re: 4.2 changes

Postby shinryu » Tue May 31, 2011 3:53 pm

I know this might sound weird, but is anyone else actually getting less excited about 4.2 as a whole? Firelands no doubt will be pretty cool if the ptr videos are any indicator, but still...jut 7 bosses is kinda low. And just to be clear, I am not a dailies-loving guy; in fact I hate them lol. So the thought of having to do all that hyjal stuff just to unlock vendors to me is fairly off-putting...granted as a raider the vast majority of my gear will be out of firelands anyways, but still for any filler gear and even the new patterns, it sucks they're locked behind vendors. I mean, I get how they went with that sort of in ICC with it being the last major raid with a new faction to rep grind, but ICC also had almost double the number of bosses, plus for being the 2nd major raid in Cata, it feels a bit of a cheap way out of say, not making more bosses.

But eh, that's my view on it. TLDR, Firelands good, dailies bad.

User avatar
Posts: 48
Joined: Wed Oct 20, 2010 2:56 pm

Re: 4.2 changes

Postby Lax » Tue May 31, 2011 5:21 pm

In regards to the 7 firelands bosses I think Greylo sums it up very well over at Grey Matter:
http://graymatterwow.blogspot.com/2011/ ... osses.html

Honored
Posts: 116
Joined: Thu May 19, 2011 7:34 am

Re: 4.2 changes

Postby Floofles » Tue May 31, 2011 6:06 pm

Well look at it like this, have you enjoyed the current tier of what was effectively 25 bosses?

A tier where most fights were impossible on 10 man for a couple of months, a tier where a couple of bosses were unkillable on 25 man without exploiting and a tier that seems to have made more guilds disband than any previous tier i've seen.

7 bosses is still a total of 14 things you'll need to progress on, sure they aren't different bosses and that's not particularly fantastic, but it's better than the horrible grind that was T11.

Exalted
User avatar
Posts: 1541
Joined: Mon May 24, 2010 10:21 pm

Re: 4.2 changes

Postby Tinderhoof » Tue May 31, 2011 6:19 pm

Having only watched videos of kills on the PTR it seems to me like most bosses have fewer mechanics than T11 as well. While I wouldn't go so far as to say this will be another T7 or T9, I am expecting to see a big dip in difficulty for normal modes at least.

Please anyone with real PTR experience feel free to tell me I am full of it.

Posts: 39
Joined: Sun Apr 17, 2011 5:22 am

Re: 4.2 changes

Postby Suhmon » Tue May 31, 2011 7:59 pm

I have to say I'm pretty happy with a lower number of bosses. I guess I'm one of the few people who liked ToC. You had your challenge and your gear upgrades, but once you got it all down, you could clear it rather quickly and then take more time away from the game or play alts. It can feel kind of tiring just grinding through tons of bosses, most of which being rather pointless on the way to the important bosses.

I think Firelands will be fun. Just hope we get some interesting changes.

PreviousNext

Return to Kitty DPS

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot] and 5 guests