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4.2 Glyph of Feroicious Bite

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4.2 Glyph of Feroicious Bite

Postby mekell » Mon May 16, 2011 10:11 am

Glyph of Ferocious Bite has been redesigned. It now causes Ferocious Bite to heal the caster for 1% of maximum health for each 10 energy used


Ok so if im not mistaken, FB caps out at 25 energy consumed. So 2.5% health total for a 5 point bite? Seems pretty costly does it not? Or am i mis-reading things?

The old glyph used to make it so that it wouldnt consume extra energy, now it will always consume extra energy up to 25 extra energy.

Ferocious Bite now costs 25 Energy, down from 35. Now consumes up to 25 additional energy, down from 35. Base damage increased by 12%, from [380 + 54.5% of AP]-[615 + 54.5% of AP] to [410 + 54.5% of AP]-[680 + 54.5% of AP] at 5 Combo Points. (Check tooltip for less combo points)


I dont know, the more i think about that, the more it seems kinda lame. 2.5% is nothing considering there are AE's out there in raids that do more than that. If it were 2.5% per combo point, now that might sound interesting.

Am i just reading this wrong? what are others thoughts on these changes. I saw QBear mention it in the blog, maybe he has some insight that I am missing.
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Re: 4.2 Glyph of Feroicious Bite

Postby felhoof » Mon May 16, 2011 10:22 am

You're reading it slightly wrong; it's up to 5% health because it can consume up to 50% energy. The variable energy is a guarantee now that the glyph has been redesigned.

That being said, a 5% heal is not anything special and is on par with the old lotp heal. That also being said, it's not like feral cats have any worthwhile major glyphs.

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Re: 4.2 Glyph of Feroicious Bite

Postby mekell » Mon May 16, 2011 10:52 am

I see, so 25 original cost, 25 extra = 50 = 5%. In pvp i could see this being pretty useful maybe. Burst + heal on top of that, similar to death strike for DK's (but different in obvious ways).
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Re: 4.2 Glyph of Feroicious Bite

Postby Devils » Mon May 16, 2011 11:27 am

- it's not depends on combo points. Glyphed FB heal with 1 CP = Glyphed FB heal with 5 CP.
- minimum heal at 25 energy (25 energy as basic FB cost and 0 additional energy) = 2,5% of maximum health
- maximum heal at 50 energy (25 energy as basic FB cost and 25 additional energy) = 5 % of maximum health
- from 100 combat log data using reverse maths it looks like there is a 0,5 scale in energy/damage and 0,5 energy/heal scaling in FB
- so 0,5 additional energy is 2% extra FB damage
- and 0,5 consumed energy is 0,05% of maximum health
- cannot be a critical heal :S (or i had bad-bad-bad luck)
Last edited by Devils on Mon May 16, 2011 12:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: 4.2 Glyph of Feroicious Bite

Postby Golle » Mon May 16, 2011 12:24 pm

Will the heal crit if FB does? I mean, we have quite the critchance on FB.

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Re: 4.2 Glyph of Feroicious Bite

Postby Devils » Mon May 16, 2011 12:33 pm

Unfortunately, no :(
Upper post edited.
Last edited by Devils on Mon May 16, 2011 12:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: 4.2 Glyph of Feroicious Bite

Postby mekell » Mon May 16, 2011 12:34 pm

Good question, its not clear if the heal will/can crit.

At this point, this looks like a pvp glyph to me, it obviously wont provide any extra dps, just self healing which might not be bad for some raid encounters, but could be very useful in pvp where you can fb with 1 cp and get a 5% heal (assuming you have enough energy).
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Re: 4.2 Glyph of Feroicious Bite

Postby Monopedia » Mon May 16, 2011 2:17 pm

felhoof wrote:That being said, a 5% heal is not anything special and is on par with the old lotp heal. That also being said, it's not like feral cats have any worthwhile major glyphs.


Pretty much this IMO. Looking at the list of Major Glyphs for Feral focused on PvE raiding as full DPS focused cat spec, only one is even close to mandatory - Glyph of Rebirth. Obviously you never want to use Rebirth, but when you do the impact this glyph has is rather large.
The others that are druid universal or feral only
Glyph of Feral Charge - Nice glyph, the best of the remaining Major Glyphs. Not exactly mandatory but compared to the rest it might as well be.
Glyph of Faerie Fire - most of the time those extra 10 yards won't come in to play other than at the start of the encounter
Glyph of Pounce - we never pounce in PvE
Glyph of Barkskin - Has its use but as cat if you ever really need to use this something is going very wrong
Glyph of Innervate - Very rare that you would ever need this glyph. Borderline never unless something went wrong
Glyph of Hurricane - a Nice glyph in itself but feral won't use hurricane - our mana pool also only allows us to cast 1
Glyph of Maul - No use to cat at all
Glyph of Frenzied Regen - Only has use in bear form, how often do you get in to the position of needing to go bear for this cooldown?
Glyph of Thorns - One of those 'how often do you use this ability in a raid?' glyphs
Glyph of Entangling Roots - Same as Thorns.

So looking at the other options, even if Glyph of Ferocious Bite is pretty weak, I'd rather take that weak self heal as my 3rd wild card glyph that will see quite a lot of use during execute phases than have the highly situational weak glyphs that are its competition.

I really have no idea if to expect the glyph to crit heal or not. If it can, it will likely use spell crit chance, which for me is around 8-10%. Question is does Nuturing Instinct increase the heal?

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Re: 4.2 Glyph of Feroicious Bite

Postby mekell » Mon May 16, 2011 2:23 pm

You are correct there as well. I forgot how terrible the major glyphs are for cat. I think i am using maul for lack of much better, this would atleast provide me some benefit.
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Re: 4.2 Glyph of Feroicious Bite

Postby shinryu » Mon May 16, 2011 7:35 pm

Having FC is actually a DPS increase if you use the whole FC/Ravage combo, so I'd consider it pretty much mandatory. But yeah...considering odds are we won't be using FB anyways until the Blood in the Water phase, it's not like it'd be noticeable at all. Even in pvp you're better off Cycloning something and running away to cast a few heals rather than wasting CP on a fairly weak heal...I mean, I guess you can look at it like Recuperate in pvp, but Rogues I find generate CP in chunks a lot quicker than Ferals, making it easy for them to throw up a recuperate.

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Re: 4.2 Glyph of Feroicious Bite

Postby ShmooDude » Mon May 16, 2011 8:50 pm

FB glyph doesn't even hold a candle to Recuperate, wish people would stop comparing the two (even at 1 CP it restores 6% over 6 seconds untalented and only goes up from there). Its more like Death Strike than anything else. You trade damage for healing (and lets face it, using FB in PvP unless you're gonna kill someone is almost always a damage loss. Death Strike heals for 15% glyphed compared to FB's 5%. THAT is why its weak.

5% is 6k of a 120k health pool. Healing touch hits harder than that.

Personally, I would much rather it become even more like Death Strike so it could heal for more. Something along the lines of:

Ferocious Bite heals the caster for 3% of maximum health for each 10 energy used but reduces its damage by 20%. (just an example number)

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Re: 4.2 Glyph of Feroicious Bite

Postby Devils » Tue May 17, 2011 12:46 am

ShmooDude wrote: 5% is 6k of a 120k health pool.


Actually 5% is a 6k of a 120k health pool but we have 20% increases healing done via NI. --> it will be a 7k2 heal.

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Re: 4.2 Glyph of Feroicious Bite

Postby CaptainCub » Tue May 17, 2011 6:12 am

Monopedia wrote:Glyph of Barkskin - Has its use but as cat if you ever really need to use this something is going very wrong

Let's stop pretending we're like arcane mages or something with crazy threat reduction. Ferals do run into threat problems every once in a while, especially on trash mobs and when it so happens that I pull aggro, I know that glyphed Barkskin will make the damage healable and I won't get critted for 100K+ damage ;)

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Re: 4.2 Glyph of Feroicious Bite

Postby Monopedia » Tue May 17, 2011 11:53 am

CaptainCub wrote:
Monopedia wrote:Glyph of Barkskin - Has its use but as cat if you ever really need to use this something is going very wrong

Let's stop pretending we're like arcane mages or something with crazy threat reduction. Ferals do run into threat problems every once in a while, especially on trash mobs and when it so happens that I pull aggro, I know that glyphed Barkskin will make the damage healable and I won't get critted for 100K+ damage ;)


I never said threat is/is not an issue for all so no we don't have amazing threat reduction. It sucks cower can miss or be dodged/parried but also in the case of trash, who cares about maxing damage. Hold off for a second or 2 if your tank is so bad at trash tanking. Notice I said it has its uses but fact is during a boss encounter if you are taking aggro from your tank often enough for Glyph of Barkskin to be a requirement then he is doing something wrong, especially the longer the encounter goes on and a full vengence bar. If it is that important to you on trash switch the glyph in and out based on encounter. The cost of dust is very easy to replenish.

My tanks are good enough (or I'm so bad if you want to look at it that way) that threat is not that an issue for me. I'll change targets IF I am having trouble with threat (if its an option) or call out for a salvation, so Glyph of barkskin is close to useless for me. I'd get much more use out of a 5% heal every now and again during an execute phase like Magmaw, Maloriak or Nef just to help out healers that tiny bit.

It is quite obvious that these glyphs are both optional and situational (like a lot of major glyphs for all classes) and none of them (other than rebirth and feral charge) are required.

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Re: 4.2 Glyph of Feroicious Bite

Postby phalk » Tue May 17, 2011 2:09 pm

If FB crits (which it will most of time due to Rend and Tear), will we still get the heal from Leader of the Pack?
If so, we will be getting a very nice amount of healing. 9% + NI

Edit: Can Leader of the Pack Heal still crit? Even more if it does. But I don't remember this part.

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Re: 4.2 Glyph of Feroicious Bite

Postby CaptainCub » Wed May 18, 2011 4:54 am

phalk wrote:If FB crits (which it will most of time due to Rend and Tear), will we still get the heal from Leader of the Pack?
If so, we will be getting a very nice amount of healing. 9% + NI

Edit: Can Leader of the Pack Heal still crit? Even more if it does. But I don't remember this part.


Devils wrote:- it's not depends on combo points. Glyphed FB heal with 1 CP = Glyphed FB heal with 5 CP.
- minimum heal at 25 energy (25 energy as basic FB cost and 0 additional energy) = 2,5% of maximum health
- maximum heal at 50 energy (25 energy as basic FB cost and 25 additional energy) = 5 % of maximum health
- from 100 combat log data using reverse maths it looks like there is a 0,5 scale in energy/damage and 0,5 energy/heal scaling in FB
- so 0,5 additional energy is 2% extra FB damage
- and 0,5 consumed energy is 0,05% of maximum health
- cannot be a critical heal :S (or i had bad-bad-bad luck)


LotP heal cannot crit either.

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Re: 4.2 Glyph of Feroicious Bite

Postby CaptainCub » Wed May 18, 2011 5:31 am

Monopedia wrote:if you are taking aggro from your tank often enough for Glyph of Barkskin to be a requirement then he is doing something wrong

The same could be said about about the new GoFB and its situational use, except that the extra "mitigation" of GoBarskin will far outweigh the measly 6-7K heal from GoFB. If I'm so desperate for a small heal, I will cast an instant HT after a finisher and if I'm below 20% I'll go bear form and hit Frenzied Regeneration which will top me back off to 30% HP.
I mentioned trash mobs but there are so many other examples where you will pull aggro and your tanks can't do anything about it: ZA timed bear runs (aoe'ing the adds on the dragonhawk boss), Anshal platform on H:Conclave when aoe'ing the creepers, I see a lot of nameplates turning red :D and not to mention any 5-man dungeon where not pulling aggro from a non raid-geared tank means completely neutering my dps by spamming cower and keeping away from hitting Shred.

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Re: 4.2 Glyph of Feroicious Bite

Postby phalk » Wed May 18, 2011 2:19 pm

Frenzied regen is changing to 15% health.

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Re: 4.2 Glyph of Feroicious Bite

Postby Devils » Fri May 20, 2011 10:50 am

glyphed FB - 4.2 ver 14133 - its totally bugged :S

- it's not depends on combo points. Glyphed FB heal with 1 CP = Glyphed FB heal with 5 CP.
- minimum heal at 25 energy (25 energy as basic FB cost and 0 additional energy) = 2,5% of maximum health
- maximum heal at 50 energy (25 energy as basic FB cost and 25 additional energy) = 5 % of maximum health
- from 100 combat log data using reverse maths it looks like there is a 0,5 scale in energy/damage and 0,5 energy/heal scaling in FB
- so 0,5 additional energy is 2% extra FB damage
- and 0,5 consumed energy is 0,05% of maximum health
- cannot be a critical heal
- Nurturing Instinct increases FB glyph (and LotP) healing
- nasty damage (unbuffed 5 CP FB, 368 ilvl: ~20k normal ~40k crit.)
- regardless the FB glyph, FB consumes 25-50 energy, in 2 part: 0-25 damage and 25-50 heal (if glyphed)/and NO extra damage(unglyphed)
- unglyphed FB and glyphed FB damage is the SAME

Bugs/typos:
- unglyphed FB tooltip have glyphed FB tool-tip and glyphed FB tooltip have unglyphed FB tool-tip
- regardless the FB glyph damage and consumed energy is the same
- unglyphed FB consumed 0-25 extra energy for nothing.

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Re: 4.2 Glyph of Feroicious Bite

Postby mekell » Fri May 20, 2011 11:22 am

Maybe im confused, but that doesnt sound like a bug.

1) they buffed FB damage in the patch already by 12% (see my original post)
2) the glyph doesnt prevent use of extra energy anymore, fb will always use extra energy up to 25 extra (50 total, since it costs 25 to cast)

Those 2 things lead be to believe:

- Both glyph and unglyphed damage will be the same (it doesnt say that the heal will replace damage just add a heal based on energy used)
- both glyph and unglyphed will use the same amount of energy
- GLyphed will provide heal for energy consumed (the way you state this, this part could be a bug, it sounds like you are saying the intial 25 energy cost just to use FB isn't going towards the heal only the extra energy consumed, which is not how the glyph reads.

So i'm confused about whats bugged. Maybe i am mis-reading your post.
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Re: 4.2 Glyph of Feroicious Bite

Postby Devils » Fri May 20, 2011 11:35 am

unglyphed FB at 25 energy: 20k normal, 40k crit --> energy poll goes to 0/100
unglyphed FB at 50 energy: 20k normal, 40k crit --> energy poll goes to (25+x)/100 then goes to (0+x)/100. X is the amount of energy gained from energy regeneration.
unglyphed FB at 75 energy: 20k normal, 40k crit --> energy poll goes to (50+x)/100 then goes to (25+x)/100.
unglyphed FB at 100 energy: 20k normal, 40k crit --> energy poll goes to (75+x)/100 then goes to (50+x)/100

glyphed FB at 25 energy: 20k normal, 40k crit --> energy poll goes to 0/100 + circa 2,5% HP FB heal (+20% of course)
glyphed FB at 50 energy: 20k normal, 40k crit --> energy poll goes to (25+x)/100 then goes to (0+x)/100. X is the amount of energy gained from energy regeneration. + 5% HP FB heal
glyphed FB at 75 energy: 20k normal, 40k crit --> energy poll goes to (50+x)/100 then goes to (25+x)/100.+ 5% HP FB heal
glyphed FB at 100 energy: 20k normal, 40k crit --> energy poll goes to (75+x)/100 then goes to (50+x)/100 + 5% HP FB heal

so the damage is the same but the used energy is NOT.

the original tooltip (and actually this is the glyphed tooltip in PTR):

"Ferocious Bite Level 85
25 Energy Melee Range
Instant
Requires Cat Form
Finishing move that causes damage per combo point. Damage is increased by your attack power."

So theoretically there is no extra energy anymore. BUT in case in PTR there is 0-25 extra energy which disappears into the Twisted Nether.

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Re: 4.2 Glyph of Feroicious Bite

Postby mekell » Fri May 20, 2011 1:53 pm

Thanks for the clarification Devils! Sorry for the confusion.
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Re: 4.2 Glyph of Feroicious Bite

Postby Devils » Thu May 26, 2011 11:19 am

FB / glyphed FB - PTR 4.2 ver 14179
- Glyph ON: damage and heal.
(Energy cost: 25-50, unbuffed 5 CP FB, 368 ilvl: ~20k normal ~40k crit.)
- Glyph OFF: just damage.
(Energy cost: 25-50, unbuffed 5 CP FB, 368 ilvl: ~20k normal ~40k crit.)
- unglyphed FB and glyphed FB damage is the SAME
- it's not depends on combo points. Glyphed FB heal with 1 CP = Glyphed FB heal with 5 CP.
- minimum heal at 25 energy (25 energy as basic FB cost and 0 additional energy) = 2,5% of maximum health
- maximum heal at 50+ energy (25 energy as basic FB cost and 25 additional energy) = 5 % of maximum health
- from 100 combat log data using reverse maths it looks like there is a 0,5 scale in energy/damage and 0,5 energy/heal scaling in FB
- 0,5 consumed energy is 0,05% of maximum health
- glyphed FB heal cannot be a critical heal
- Nurturing Instinct increases glyphed FB glyph
- regardless the FB glyph, FB consumes 25+50 energy, in 2 part: 0-25 damage (1st part) and 25-50 heal/nothing ( FB glyph on/ NO FB glyph) (2nd part)


so the bugs/typos:
- unglyphed FB tooltip have glyphed FB tool-tip and glyphed FB tooltip have unglyphed FB tool-tip - fixed
- regardless the FB glyph damage and the consumed energy is the same 25-50 enegy - still bugged
- so unglyphed FB consumed 0-25 extra energy for nothing. - still bugged see above

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Re: 4.2 Glyph of Feroicious Bite

Postby Sylvaneart » Thu May 26, 2011 12:13 pm

New PTR notes. FB no longer heals.
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Re: 4.2 Glyph of Feroicious Bite

Postby Devils » Thu May 26, 2011 12:25 pm

Sylvaneart wrote:New PTR notes. FB no longer heals.


as you see - it was just a typo in previous build. see above.

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