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What rotation suggestion mod are you using?

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What rotation suggestion mod are you using?

Postby Grenache » Thu Mar 18, 2010 12:37 am

I went from Facemauler to FBN (briefly) and then back. Recently gone to Ovale, but I think already the author of the initial script on EJ has said he's abandoning it (last update appears to be 22nd February), and now the talk is all about re-incarnating FBN etc..

WTB some stability with these mods.

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Re: What rotation suggestion mod are you using?

Postby Captain Fizz » Thu Mar 18, 2010 7:05 am

I don't use any...?
Never have TBH.

Thinking about your rotation 10~20 seconds in advance, after some practice comes as second nature.
Does a suggestions addon suggest not using TF and pooling some energy before a ArP trinket proc?
If trinket will proc in the next 5~10 secs, save TF, make sure Rip & SR will be up for the duration allowing you as many shreds into the 10 sec proc as possible - Makes sense but do they monitor trinket cooldowns too?
(And that the NES takes nearly twice as long to proc as MR or GT)

Does it tell you the best time to use Berserk in the fight?
Don't use it straight away if threat is an issue, know when you'll be bitten in the BQL fight and either use it early + once bitten, or wait until bitten if you'll be bitten half way through - Icehowl's 100% more dmg phase...

Part of the fight where you'll have to run out from the boss / go to an add? Apply a Rip to the target you are about to leave...

I cannot see suggestion addons EVER comparing to actually using ones own grey matter :)
Yes they may get close - but try without a suggestions addon and just work it out?
You already know the rotation - I think the suggestion addons are mainly for beginners. If you have used several different ones - time to break free?

No offence to anyone that uses one - Just why rely on it once you know the rotation better? :)

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Re: What rotation suggestion mod are you using?

Postby Alaron » Thu Mar 18, 2010 8:42 am

Grenache,

I'm currently using Ovale, and will be addressing it in a future blog post. It's a good tool, as long as you know when to deviate from it (Fizz points out a few good situations). Having a proc monitor is also helpful, so you can pop speed pots and such while the proc is up.

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Re: What rotation suggestion mod are you using?

Postby Macdowell » Thu Mar 18, 2010 9:27 am

As a relatively new feral (within the past 4 months), I'm using FBN.

It feels like the druid community is putting its efforts behind Ovale scripts at this point though, which is good. It's nice to have a suggestion mod whose workings are out in the open rather than the out-dated black box that FBN is.

I think I've just gotten used to the FBN interface at this point. I like having the currently suggested move in one central place with the next predicted move beside it. This allows me to keep my eyes on the action while not focusing on the suggestion box too much. I just haven't been able to use the Ovale scripts without my eyes jumping all over the place and it taking my focus away from the action trying to figure out whether I'm to use the large box or the small box as my next move. Plus, Ovale feels a bit erratic with the disappearing/red move boxes, tough to explain.

I know I'll have to get used to it at some point, perhaps when 4.0 hits.

But yeah, FBN was invaluable when I first hit 80 with the druid. I don't think the move suggesters should be followed blindly but they sure do help when first learning the rotation.

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Re: What rotation suggestion mod are you using?

Postby Blufyre » Thu Mar 18, 2010 10:14 am

I've been using different buff/debuff timers rather than suggestion mods over the last couple of years. It's a personal thing but I just find that rotation suggestion mods take the fun out of dps (I know lots of people like them though). Over the years I've used a recalibrated version of Rogue Power Bars which was pretty good generally and I used it for quite a while. There was a period of time where it was unsupported so I moved to Need To Know, which was OK, but the inability to get the bars to grow downwards irritated me.

I have recently switched to Bad Kitty, which I am really enjoying. I like to know where I am with my DOTs, CDs etc and Bad Kitty is a well really balanced solution for this. My only gripes are that I'd like more control over the look and feel as am a bit of a UI nut, but would still recommend it to anyone who doesn't fancy the suggestion option.

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Re: What rotation suggestion mod are you using?

Postby Grenache » Thu Mar 18, 2010 4:00 pm

After a pretty lacklustre Saurfang effort a month back I realised that these mods are really just an indicator and need to be overwritten with commonsense sometimes, so, because I had the luxury of not having to move in this fight, I just focused on rotation and watched my "Need to Know" timer bars really closely, and I did a lot better. Even with a Brez and an innervate, I easily beat my previous week's effort.

I normally play with 400-450ms latency, but have a pretty high-end PC. I'm wondering what part that plays in dot uptime, and in the suggestions Ovale shows me. I noticed that Facemauler was far quicker to show / refresh suggestions than FBN for example. I know I shouldn't clip Rip and Rake (esp Rip) but I'm starting to think that what I see as 1 sec to go on the bleed is really .5 sec, and I should be able to get more uptime by hitting it a bit early. I guess I'm confused about client-side debuff display vs. server side.

I noticed that someone on the Ovale thread on EJ recently posted a couple of lines that added a Potion of Speed suggester - I assume you can just paste those 2 lines in anywhere within the script?

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Re: What rotation suggestion mod are you using?

Postby Alaron » Thu Mar 18, 2010 11:56 pm

I see this is a hot topic, so I'll try to address this in my next blog post. :) I personally use a combination of Need To Know and Ovale, though I'll check out FBN and that new one (that I can't remember) before I write anything.

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Re: What rotation suggestion mod are you using?

Postby Blufyre » Fri Mar 19, 2010 6:47 am

Nice one Alaron.

Would also be great to hear if anyone uses or has used Event Horizon. I have a warlock mate who swears by it having tried loads of different options, and I believe it can be quite easily configured for feral dps.

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Re: What rotation suggestion mod are you using?

Postby Sixx » Sun Mar 21, 2010 4:35 am

i have been using Cat's eye the last few month, it gives me all the information i want, dont take alot of space or memory.

http://wow.curse.com/downloads/wow-addo ... tseye.aspx
Allience - Neptulon - Sixx- Feral

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Re: What rotation suggestion mod are you using?

Postby spw » Wed Mar 24, 2010 4:40 pm

Grenache, try Inline Aura if you want to see timers down to the 1/10th of a second. It puts timers on top of your bars. I've created a 5 box bar with SR, Mangle, FFF, Rip and Rake on it. Once one of them goes below 10 seconds it will display the 10th's. You can tell it that Trauma and Mangle (Bear) are equal to Mangle (Cat) so you can track other's debuff's as well. I'll reapply Rip or Rake when I see the timer hit .8 seconds and it doesn't clip

While it's not a rotation suggestion addon, I'd be lost without it!

http://wow.curse.com/downloads/wow-addo ... -aura.aspx

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Re: What rotation suggestion mod are you using?

Postby Dabeasty » Sun Apr 04, 2010 10:44 am

I use bad kitty for the bars but turn off the squares as I don't like them

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Re: What rotation suggestion mod are you using?

Postby Purecadence » Mon Apr 05, 2010 8:07 pm

I personally had a issue using Bad Kitty, and Cat's Eye.



What ive had for quiet some time now is a UI setup which i created which uses Elks Buff Bars, and Quartz.


I have in the bottom Middle section about my buttons my auto attack bar. Quartz lines up my debuffs ive applied to the boss on the right hand side of it (My Bleeds, Mangle or Fairy Fire). On the Left Side of it i have another list which is hidden but shows up when savage roar is up, also mangle/trauma or fairy fire is on the target.


Ill try and upload a screenshot of it if someone is interested.


Basically diagram of it shows

Fairy Fire
Fairy Fire Mangle
Mangle/Trauma Rip
Savage Roar Rake
__________________________________ <-Autoattack Bar


I have on the right hand side of my screen cooldown timers 2. This puts a nice slightly transparent large icon on my screen when something comes off cooldown. It also displays all the cooldowns of anything ive used. This includes trinkets to abilities. Before 3.3.3 patch i even had it display the internal cooldowns of my armor pen trinket. It died tho in 3.3.3 and i dont use those trinkets any more so i never tried to fix the internal cooldowns from showing up.

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Re: What rotation suggestion mod are you using?

Postby Chetai » Thu Apr 15, 2010 9:44 pm

I used FBN for a long time just as a reference and to get the general rotation down. I picked up Ovale when 3.3 came around and FBN really starting falling behind. Currently using a slightly modified script of one that is up on EJ. I also use ForteXorcist for timer bars, with every module turned off except for the main addon and Druid module.

In general I don't really watch Ovale much, but its nice for when I have to stop what I'm doing and then start dps again. Mostly it comes down to my instinct and experience with the fight previously.

Code: Select all
# Fatalsaints Feral Cat DPS Ovale Script v1FixedRakeWhitespacesTabs Leafv1.2
#
# Based on SimulationCraft actions
# http://elitistjerks.com/f73/t81052-best_possible_feral_dps_simulationcraft
#
# Source:
# http://elitistjerks.com/f73/t84378-visualising_optimal_cat_rotation_ingame/p10/#248
# -----------------------------------------------------------------------
Define(FFF 16857)
Define(FF 770)
Define(RIP 1079)
Define(MANGLE 33876)
Define(SHRED 5221)
Define(TIGER 5217)
Define(RAKE 59886)
Define(ROAR 52610)
Define(BITE 22568)
Define(BERSERK 50334)
Define(OMEN 16870)
Define(TRAUMA 46857)
Define(MANGLEB 33878)
Define(FERALCH 49376)
SpellInfo(RIP resetcounter=ripshreds)
SpellInfo(SHRED inccounter=ripshreds)
AddCheckBox(CheckBoxTF "Suggest Tiger's Fury")
AddCheckBox(CheckBoxFF "Suggest Faerie Fire")
AddCheckBox(CheckBoxBk "Suggest Berserk")
AddCheckBox(CheckBoxMangle "Suggest Mangle")
AddIcon help=cd size=small nocd=5
{
if Stance(3) {
Spell(TIGER priority=4)
}
}
AddIcon help=cd size=small nocd=10
{
if Stance(3) {
Spell(BERSERK)
}
AddIcon help=main {
if Stance(3) { # Cat Form
# actions+=/savage_roar,cp>=1,savage_roar<=1
if {ComboPoints(more 0) and BuffExpires(ROAR 0)} Spell(ROAR)
# actions+=/savage_roar,if=buff.combo_points.stack>=3&dot.rip.remains-buff.savage_roar.remains>=0&buff.savage_roar.remains<=8
if {ComboPoints(more 2) and TargetDebuffPresent(RIP mine=1) and more than 1s between TargetDebuffExpires(RIP mine=1) and BuffExpires(ROAR)} unless BuffPresent(ROAR 9) Spell(ROAR)
# actions+=/savage_roar,if=buff.combo_points.stack>=3&buff.savage_roar.remains-dot.rip.remains<=3&buff.savage_roar.remains<=8
if {ComboPoints(more 2) and TargetDebuffPresent(RIP mine=1) and at most 3s between BuffExpires(ROAR) and TargetDebuffExpires(RIP mine=1)} unless BuffPresent(ROAR 9) Spell(ROAR)
# actions+=/shred,cp<=4,extend_rip=1,rip<=3
if {ComboPoints(less 4) and TargetDebuffPresent(RIP mine=1) and TargetDebuffExpires(RIP 4 mine=1) and Counter(ripshreds less 3)} Spell(SHRED)
# actions+=/rip,cp>=5,time_to_die>=6
# actions+=/ferocious_bite,cp>=5,time_to_die<=6
# actions+=/ferocious_bite,cp>=5,rip>=8,savage_roar>=11
if {ComboPoints(more 4)} {
if {TargetDeadIn(less 7) or {TargetDebuffPresent(RIP 8 mine=1) and BuffPresent(ROAR 11)}} Spell(BITE)
if {TargetDeadIn(more 5) and TargetDebuffExpires(RIP 0 mine=1)} Spell(RIP)
}
# actions+=/mangle_cat,mangle<=1
if CheckBoxOn(CheckBoxMangle) and {TargetDebuffExpires(MANGLE 1) and TargetDebuffExpires(MANGLEB 1) and TargetDebuffExpires(TRAUMA 1)} Spell(MANGLE)
# actions+=/rake,time_to_die>=9
unless {TargetDebuffPresent(RAKE mine=1)} if TargetDeadIn(more 8) Spell(RAKE)
}
AddIcon help=cd size=small {
if Stance(3) { # Cat Form
# actions+=/faerie_fire_feral,debuff_only=1
if {CheckBoxOn(CheckBoxFF)} and {TargetDebuffExpires(FFF 0) and TargetDebuffExpires(FF 0)} Spell(FFF)
# actions+=/tigers_fury,energy<=30,berserk=0
if {CheckBoxOn(CheckBoxTF) and BuffExpires(BERSERK 0) and Mana(less 35)} Spell(TIGER)
# actions+=/berserk_cat,energy>=80,energy<=90
if {CheckBoxOn(CheckBoxBk) and Mana(more 79) and Mana(less 91)} Spell(BERSERK)
# actions+=/savage_roar,cp>=1,savage_roar<=1
if {ComboPoints(more 0) and BuffExpires(ROAR 0)} Spell(ROAR)
# actions+=/savage_roar,if=buff.combo_points.stack>=3&dot.rip.remains-buff.savage_roar.remains>=0&buff.savage_roar.remains<=8
if {ComboPoints(more 2) and TargetDebuffPresent(RIP mine=1) and more than 1s between TargetDebuffExpires(RIP mine=1) and BuffExpires(ROAR)} unless BuffPresent(ROAR 9) Spell(ROAR)
# actions+=/savage_roar,if=buff.combo_points.stack>=3&buff.savage_roar.remains-dot.rip.remains<=3&buff.savage_roar.remains<=8
if {ComboPoints(more 2) and TargetDebuffPresent(RIP mine=1) and at most 3s between BuffExpires(ROAR) and TargetDebuffExpires(RIP mine=1)} unless BuffPresent(ROAR 9) Spell(ROAR)
# actions+=/shred,cp<=4,extend_rip=1,rip<=3
if {ComboPoints(less 4) and TargetDebuffPresent(RIP mine=1) and TargetDebuffExpires(RIP 4 mine=1) and Counter(ripshreds less 3)} Spell(SHRED)
# actions+=/rip,cp>=5,time_to_die>=6
# actions+=/ferocious_bite,cp>=5,time_to_die<=6
# actions+=/ferocious_bite,cp>=5,rip>=8,savage_roar>=11
if {ComboPoints(more 4)} {
if {TargetDeadIn(less 7) or {TargetDebuffPresent(RIP 8 mine=1) and BuffPresent(ROAR 11)}} Spell(BITE)
if {TargetDeadIn(more 5) and TargetDebuffExpires(RIP 0 mine=1)} Spell(RIP)
}
# actions+=/mangle_cat,mangle<=1
if CheckBoxOn(CheckBoxMangle) and {TargetDebuffExpires(MANGLE 1) and TargetDebuffExpires(MANGLEB 1) and TargetDebuffExpires(TRAUMA 1)} Spell(MANGLE)
# actions+=/rake,time_to_die>=9
unless {TargetDebuffPresent(RAKE mine=1)} if TargetDeadIn(more 8) Spell(RAKE)
# actions+=/shred,if=(energy>=80|buff.omen_of_clarity.up|buff.berserk.up|cooldown.tigers_fury.remains<=3)
# actions+=/shred,time_to_die<=9
# actions+=/shred,cp<=0,savage_roar<=2
if {Mana(more 79) or BuffPresent(OMEN) or TargetDeadIn(less 10) or BuffPresent(BERSERK) or BuffExpires(TIGER 3) or TargetDeadIn(less 10) or {ComboPoints(less 1) and BuffExpires(ROAR 2)}} Spell(SHRED)
}
}
AddIcon help=cd size=small
{
if Stance(3) {
Spell(FERALCH)
}
}
Image

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Re: What rotation suggestion mod are you using?

Postby octechx » Tue May 11, 2010 8:32 pm

I use a modified Feral By night availible on curse. I changed the mangle priority settings to low now with the buff to mangle and did some mods to some other settings. But FBN and Bad kitty are the still the standards, I use them to remind me to refresh FFF and let me know when bseark is up. Other than that I've got me rotation down pretty stat. Pulling around 10-12k now.
Image

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Re: What rotation suggestion mod are you using?

Postby octechx » Tue May 18, 2010 7:03 pm

I'm not sure i really understand any of the other mods but feral by night, I've plugged ovale in and It doesn't really give me a suggested spell during down time. Like i'll have all my bleeds up and it will be telling me to rake not shred when i'm at 100% energy?
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Re: What rotation suggestion mod are you using?

Postby Alaron » Tue May 18, 2010 9:06 pm

Octechx,

FBN's certainly not bad, especially the new Lite version which strips out a lot of the old bloat, but I like having better control over the decision logic...which is where Ovale comes in.

You'll have to tell me a little more what you mean by "downtime," but if it's recommending Rake when it's already up, that's a problem. I have noticed this from time to time...it only seems to happen when you target switch to another target with the same name, and Ovale can't determine which target has your debuffs (Raging Spirits, for example). Was that where that happened for you? I'd like to nail it down, so I can send a good bug report to the Ovale developer.

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Re: What rotation suggestion mod are you using?

Postby Dabeasty » Wed May 19, 2010 10:53 am

As I said before I mainly rely on badkitty to give me the info and then make clicky decisions for myself.

I have in the past used suggestion addons tho and I find them pretty useful generally, especially for new kitties learning rotations.

Having done a bit of research into the current state of affairs I must admit Im somewhat confused as to the present 'good ones'. There seem to be a lot of options and nobody is really advocating any one over the others. I'll list a few I came across below and perhaps Alaron you can let me know your thoughts (or anyone else who is certain of the situation):

Ovale - Looks like there are several variations of scripts I could use with this. The default one from Ovale seems to be widely regarded as 'less than optimal'. Theres the OP one on elitistjerks which seems to now be slightly dated? There are also versions from several other people in that thread. Are any of these considered to be 'better' than the others? Also, is the version you blogged about still up to date (I recall you copied one into a blog post)?

Face Mauler - Out of date now? Seems someone started to update it then decided not to?

Faceroller - Updated by one of the people who has an Ovale script. Is this any good? Anyone use it?

FBNLite - Seems to be a modern version of the old FBN with a lot of stuff stripped out. Again, any good? Anyone tried it? One of the EJ posts late in the thread suggests they have update the suggestions now so that it is up to date.

I might do some testing using my current Bad Kitty/My own decisions VS these various suggestion mods and see how it pans out.

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Re: What rotation suggestion mod are you using?

Postby Alaron » Wed May 19, 2010 2:49 pm

Dabeasty wrote:As I said before I mainly rely on badkitty to give me the info and then make clicky decisions for myself.


Good. :) You'll always be able to make better decisions if you have the ability and time to make an assessment. For example, on LK transition phases, I'll tr to leave him with 5 CP's because I can still SR while he's casting Remorseless Winter. It boosts my DPS on Raging Spirits.

Ovale - Looks like there are several variations of scripts I could use with this. The default one from Ovale seems to be widely regarded as 'less than optimal'. Theres the OP one on elitistjerks which seems to now be slightly dated? There are also versions from several other people in that thread. Are any of these considered to be 'better' than the others? Also, is the version you blogged about still up to date (I recall you copied one into a blog post)?


The version I posted is very close to optimal for a BiS feral druid. I find that it tends to FB a bit too often, so when I get a chance, I'll be updating it. I have a long post on this planned.

Face Mauler - Out of date now? Seems someone started to update it then decided not to?


Yep.

Faceroller - Updated by one of the people who has an Ovale script. Is this any good? Anyone use it?


I've tried it, and I went back to Ovale/FBN. It only gives you a single recommendation window, unlike the others which give you an idea of your next ability.

FBNLite - Seems to be a modern version of the old FBN with a lot of stuff stripped out. Again, any good? Anyone tried it? One of the EJ posts late in the thread suggests they have update the suggestions now so that it is up to date.


I'll have to try it again. The original FBNLite was still using the old decision logic, and my impression was that it was too hard to fix (hideously complicated code).

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