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Any advice?

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Any advice?

Postby Virilana » Mon May 23, 2011 7:59 pm

Hi I've been a reader of the forums for a while and I've learned a lot from the site... I've been playing since late wrath on a hunter, right before cata hit I rolled a feral druid and I really enjoyed it, and I've recently started playing it again and gearing it up. Here is a link to some recent logs: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/x5vl ... 878&e=2185 My druid is Atayla. I was just wondering if anyone had some advice on my dot uptime etc. I've been looking at WoL for a while but I'm still not sure if I'm in a good place as dps goes for my current gear level. This is a link to my Armory: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/m ... a/advanced Anyhow just wondering if anyone had anything to put out there that I could do better as far as gearing and dps goes, I have not been playing as long as a lot of players so I'm sure there is a lot of good information I could learn from you guys :) Also I recently got my 4 peice and I've been having trouble ajusting to keeping it up, I use badkitty to track my dots and buffs but it doesnt track the bonus and the only addon that does that I've found is DroodFocus, but it lags up my game really bad when I enter combat so I have not been able to use it... Are there any others that will track that? Thank you :) Sorry if I sound a bit nubish lol
Druids name WAS Atayla, now Kittylicious due to some harassment issues.... So that's who I am on my logs now :)

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Re: Any advice?

Postby Tinderhoof » Tue May 24, 2011 6:44 pm

Hi Virilana. Welcome to the community.

We have just started a general thread that is made for having people review logs and make suggestions. I highly recomend you join us in http://fluiddruid.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=311. It's a great thread to look at other peoples logs and see what t

About your questions I had a look at your logs and I can think of a few things.

Gear wise you are doing pretty well. Your enchants are correct and gemming is almost spot on (I would replace your 20agi/30 stam gem in your chest with 20agi/20hit). I would also look at buying The Fluid Death trinket for VP as soon as you can afford it.

On your logs you are doing good dps for your gear level and experience. You are correct that your bleed times could be better. You should be able to achive high 80's to low 90's for your rip and rake up times. Best advise there is to slow your rotation down some. Try and get a feel for when a massacare is coming and you may have to group up. You know your hit is about to hit rock bottom so try and refresh before the slime starts hitting you. Same thing for Twin Drakes. Start watching the timers so you know when they are about to swap and try to make sure everything is refreshed and save a little energy for the switch.

You should also be doing more Feral Charges and abusing !Ravage. You seem to be using it but not on cooldown. If you have both Feral Charge and TF glyphed the cooldowns match up almost exactly, so its very easy to almost always have your !Ravage buffed with TF.

Try giving those a shot and see what you can do with it. Let us know if you have more questions.

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Re: Any advice?

Postby Virilana » Tue May 24, 2011 7:36 pm

Alright thank you that is very helpful... I'll switch that gem out I didnt even consider it... I'll have Fluid Death in a week or so, I recently went with the relic over the trinket but it was a decision I was unsure about, and eventually decided with the relic since Tia's Grace is still very nice and I had just lost about 300+ mastery from switching the shoulders off Omni out with the tier as well as equiping the tier chest over the LW peice. I unfortunatly dont have any stong ferals in the guild that could give me any solid advice on that....

One think I have been wondering is about using Tigers Fury with rip... the CDs are very close and recently I've been testing out trying to have it up for every rip it increases the rip damage. Sometimes it will be off cd before its time to refresh rip, sometimes about 2 seconds after rip would fall off. My question is would it be more beneficial to save it if it's of CD until I re-apply rip, or use if off CD every time? Or if it were to come of CD would the bonus damage be enough to let rip come off for 2 seconds and then put it up with Tigers Fury? I'd love to hear some thoughts on that.

My bleed uptime seems to hang around 70ish for the most part, I suppose it will just take a lot of practice to get that right. My savage roar uptime however I noticed was around 50 usually if not lower, that seems very low. What would be a good percent to aim for with that?

Thank you so much for your response, I would like to be more active the in the community and be able to increase my own playskill and perhaps someday help someone else :)

Edit: I didnt realize the cds on Tigers fury and Ravage would match up with the glyphs, thank you for pointing that out I definently want to add that in on fights where I can use ravage.
Druids name WAS Atayla, now Kittylicious due to some harassment issues.... So that's who I am on my logs now :)

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Re: Any advice?

Postby Tinderhoof » Tue May 24, 2011 7:53 pm

You really should not delay refreshing Rip at all if you can possibly help it. Having TF up when it comes time to refresh Rip is really cool, but losing a single tick of rip while waiting to get a buffed Rip will lose you DPS not gain.

Savage Roar uptime is something you should be able to keep a good up time of. Remember if you are ever switching targets and have refreshed your bleeds any left over combo points can be used to refresh SR while you are making the swap. Even 1 point SR still give plenty of time to get a new rotation going.

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Re: Any advice?

Postby Virilana » Tue May 24, 2011 9:21 pm

Alright thank you so much, I've been trying to put up savage roar with 3 to 4 combo points so I have more time on it, keeping it up more regularly will be more of a focus when I raid tonight as well as using Tigers fury with ravage!
Druids name WAS Atayla, now Kittylicious due to some harassment issues.... So that's who I am on my logs now :)

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Re: Any advice?

Postby Virilana » Wed May 25, 2011 1:12 am

Well I took your advice tonight and though I was a bit off the Chimeron fight results were a bit better, got up to 87% uptime on rake which was an improvment, though my rip uptime still didnt hit 80 so I need to work on that. Ravage was 4% of my damage as well so I think I picked that up a bit and I managed to stay above 70% uptime on both Strength of the Panther and Savage roar. Just wanted to say thank you again it really helped and I think I'll be able to keep improving from it :)

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/f6yb ... 769&e=4050
Druids name WAS Atayla, now Kittylicious due to some harassment issues.... So that's who I am on my logs now :)

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Re: Any advice?

Postby Floofles » Wed May 25, 2011 9:42 am

How early are you attempting to refresh both SR and SotP?

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Re: Any advice?

Postby Tinderhoof » Wed May 25, 2011 2:39 pm

Something I noticed is you died 3rd before the kill. Us ferals have an awesome cheat to stay alive longer. At about 50% health start hitting cower. You dont' have to keep it on cool down, but don't forget about it either. This should put you near the bottom when the phase change comes up. When that happens start hitting it more often so as people die you arn't the next target. It doesn't always work but it does help.

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Re: Any advice?

Postby Virilana » Wed May 25, 2011 4:25 pm

I try to refresh SoTP at like 5 seconds, I would like to do it later I just always find myself without enough energy to get the mangle up as I watch it tick down to zero and fall off :/ Thats mostly bad planning on my part. Like I mentioned earlier I dont have an addon that will track it (besides Droodfocus which hates my computer) and I've gotten really used to watching my timers on badkitty. Since I only just got my 4 set I tend to forget it and when I'm trying to remember then I get all hectic with my rotation :( Sometimes I wonder if its even worth it lol. Savage roar I try to get at about 3 but if I think I wont have the 5 combo points in time for Rip sometimes I'll refresh it early so I can start building up for that. Haha like I said I'm newish to this, its a lot faster paced then my hunter, which is why I went back to playing it... I felt like I was falling asleep during the fights on my hunter.

Usually I do start to spam cower if we take a stop in dps to let the healers bring us up, I dont do it as much as I should probably. I've been getting rather frusterated with it as the two hunters feign from the start, and the mage does invis or whatever it is they have (I was never interested in casters) so even after using cower I am usually next after the tanks and the one other mdps. My threat seems to skyrocket as soon as we get into the phase, usually berserk has just come of CD and I use it as soon as we hit phase 2. One think I have not been doing is using cower too much once we are actually in the phase I just try to get as much damage out as I can before he turns to me. If it would help enough I'll start using it in phase 2 as well.

I have been having a threat issue in a lot of fights, I count to 5 or 6 before I ever leap in after the pull and then I'll start with berserk and go for it. Usually I don't pull in the first part of the fight but it will be toward the middle that I'll start to have a scary amount of threat, and even toward the end. I was going to change to worgen but I stayed NE for Shadowmeld, I find myself using it at least once per fight and when my threat gets up there I'll use it and if I need to still cower. A lot of times though I'll end up pulling red aggro again while cower is still on CD and then I have to stop dps completely and back off. Our tanks switch back and forth between toons but when we have a paladin he is always using hand of salv (I think thats it?) and the when we have a warrior I always have vigilance. Its sorta frusterating, I didnt even pull this much threat on my hunter except for like the first 10 seconds of the fight. Is there anything else I can do to actually maintain lower threat? I'm usually the first one to get smacked when the tank goes down so I dont even have a chance to bring him up if our druid healer isnt there that night or on a different toon. Also I was wondering, does shadowmeld actually ever drop threat or do I still have all of it as soon as I break shadowmeld? Thank you guys for all your help I know I have a lot of questions >.> I just have always been one to want to min-max and regardless of how well I'm doing, even if I'm easily topping the charts in my guild and dont need to do more in that setting, I still want to perform at a level that would be accepted anywhere with higher standards then where I'm at.
Druids name WAS Atayla, now Kittylicious due to some harassment issues.... So that's who I am on my logs now :)

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Re: Any advice?

Postby Antioch » Thu May 26, 2011 5:23 am

I think most ferals out there feel the pain when it comes to threat issues, to be honest outside of cowering the biggest issue is your tanks. All tanks will struggle a bit at the beginning of fights while they wait for vengeance to build up but if your still coming close to overaggroing half way through or near the end of the fight then you either far outgear your tanks or they just aren't producing as much threat as they should.
I struggle for threat for about the first 15-20 secs of a fight and after that it usually settles down despite the fact i get tricks'd constantly by the rogue in our raid. He only does the first tricks on tank and from then on i get it. I will of course still nearly always be second on threat but usually by a very safe margin.
Of course the biggest problem is actually pointing out threat problems to the tanks, as someone pointed out in another thread tanks are a fairly cocky bunch and rarely like to be told they are doing something wrong :)
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Re: Any advice?

Postby Virilana » Thu May 26, 2011 9:51 am

Haha ya well the our tanks do sometimes have some threat issues, they have gotten better as time goes on but I wont kid myself and say we're the greatest group of raiders... we get stuff down but on progression our biggest problems come from tanking it right and healers keeping said tanks up, though we do manage to get things done. I suppose I should just hold back a bit, I know if I say they should be pulling more threat I'll get a comeback that I need to control my dps :lol: Well I guess I'll start using cower more... Going from having feign death to none made the 10% seem like nothing but I've come to appreciate it a bit more!
Druids name WAS Atayla, now Kittylicious due to some harassment issues.... So that's who I am on my logs now :)

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Re: Any advice?

Postby cynrh » Thu May 26, 2011 11:43 am

Be sure to Thorn the tank on the pull. If you're waiting several seconds to hop in, now you can at least add to his threat while you wait!

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Re: Any advice?

Postby Tinderhoof » Thu May 26, 2011 1:09 pm

Virilana wrote: Going from having feign death to none made the 10% seem like nothing but I've come to appreciate it a bit more!

Oh man that 10% is pretty amazing when you think about it. The later you go into a fight the more effective it gets. Just think about this though. Until Cata came out Cower did not exist on any raiding ferals bars because it cost 10 energy and lowered a set amount of threat (had not changed since vanilla). By the time ICC hit one single white swing would give more threat then then a Cower could take away. It was funny, our DPS warrior and myself were always fighting with who would get salve on fights like BQL, and Saurfang.

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Re: Any advice?

Postby Virilana » Thu May 26, 2011 6:17 pm

wow using thorns never even occured to me, i remember tanks asking for them in wrath but since cata I have not had a single tank ask for them so it sorta slipped my mind! I only played for a small time in wrath with my druid and part of that was as tank... so I never really used cower how it was before, so I when I saw the change to it I didnt really have a good concept of how that made ot more useful. Well hopefully if I can get home in time I can put this a
l into use for nef attempts. Oh btw I was wondering when lining up s
tigers fury with feral charge would macroing the two be beneficial or would even a slight difference in cds mess it up? Atm i have feral charge and ravage macroed together. thanx and forgive if my spelling is bad trying to do this from a mobile hone
Druids name WAS Atayla, now Kittylicious due to some harassment issues.... So that's who I am on my logs now :)

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Re: Any advice?

Postby Antioch » Sat May 28, 2011 6:48 am

Lining up TF with FC would be a bad idea. The difference in CD aside you would lose the dmg bonus in travel time, although this is minimal, when it comes to min maxing, minimal is everything :) Also you want to line up the TF with the ravage more than the feral charge. Its not always neccessary or even benefitial to ravage instantly after you charge, sometimes your better off save the ravage proc till it is nearly up depending on how many combo points you currently have. So long story short, dont macro TF with FC and but instead just try to time your TF with when you want to ravage. The only ability i have TF bound too is Berserk and outside of that i could see no other reason to bind it to anything (besides on use trinkets)
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Re: Any advice?

Postby Virilana » Sat May 28, 2011 5:23 pm

Alright good to know cause I wasn't sure but that does make sense!
Druids name WAS Atayla, now Kittylicious due to some harassment issues.... So that's who I am on my logs now :)

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Re: Any advice?

Postby Floofles » Sun May 29, 2011 7:40 pm

I see a LOT of people on the forum use macros for various things that mean you have not got the flexibility of using certain abilities.

With feral charge for example, you can charge and wait for using the proc for TF or after you've done a finisher, it doesn't need to be used straight away and I would certainly say that most of the time waiting to use it is better.

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Re: Any advice?

Postby Virilana » Sun May 29, 2011 8:01 pm

Ya currently I had Feral Charge and Ravage macroed together, but I have to hit it twice to use Ravage after, that is mostly so it only takes one number on my action bar... Since I'm using a Razer Naga mouse I still do 1 - 10 for my abilities and then shift 1-10 etc so I try to save space on the bars as much as I can so I can use more abilities with the straight number rather than adding a shift or control to it, less complicated that way.

I have Berserk and Tigers fury in a macro as well, though that only seems to really benefit the first time I use it. I do try to save ravage for when I can actually get combo points from it if I can. I have been starting out like this:

Faerie Fire as tank is pulling
Leap
Berserk/Tigers Fury
Ravage
Mangle
Rake
Shred if I'm missing a combo point
Rip
Mangle twice to 3 Stacks of SotP
Savage Roar
Shred etc

If there is anything in the order that would be better to do there I'd love to know, especially with getting up my 3 stacks right away or is it not really important to get them up so quickly?
Druids name WAS Atayla, now Kittylicious due to some harassment issues.... So that's who I am on my logs now :)

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Re: Any advice?

Postby Floofles » Sun May 29, 2011 10:57 pm

I would suggest doing some mangles before using the ravage and I strongly advise against macroing tf/berserk as there are fights where you may want to delay the berserk and most of the time you'll lose a ton of energy by macroing it.

For example on your opener you lose the entire 60 energy from TF.

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Re: Any advice?

Postby Virilana » Sun May 29, 2011 11:43 pm

Should I postpone Berserk then instead of using it off the bat? Then have it be something like this if I could fit it in the time frame:

Faerie Fire
Leap
Mangle
Mangle
Tigers Fury
Ravage

Then do berserk and get my dots up from there?
Druids name WAS Atayla, now Kittylicious due to some harassment issues.... So that's who I am on my logs now :)

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Re: Any advice?

Postby Leafkiller » Mon May 30, 2011 12:06 am

You should use TF when your energy is low enough that you don't lose any. If you are on a fight where you want to Berserk as often as possible then you can macro it and TF together - but only use it with low energy - or if you have already cast TF.

I have a keybind for TF and a separate one for a Berserk macro. My Berserk macro contains TF. In general if TF is off of cooldown and you want to Berserk, you should do both together with energy <= 35. You should do so at the end of a GCD cooldown and cast your next ability at the same time. There are times you will cast Berserk with TF already on cooldown but in general you should not do so if it will delay the next TF (15 seconds before it comes off of cooldown) unless the situation dictates it (in which case you might have considered delaying the TF) such as the Exposed Head phase in Magmaw. Since you generally don't want to delay TF when casting Berserk, it follows that when you do want to Berserk, it is either at a point after TF has been cast (within 15 seconds of the cast) or you are going to wait a few seconds to cast TF first - when it is off of cooldown and your energy is low.

So, getting back your proposed start up sequence - you cannot count on it being so fixed. OOC procs and (depending on your reforging scheme) misses/parries/dodges can delay how many abilities are used before you hit TF. You should plan on hitting the TF with Berserk if you plan on using Berserk at that time. You should not always plan on hitting Berserk when it is off of cooldown - so it should not be tied to TF - but you should always be planning on using TF if possible when you Berserk - so macro it there.

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Re: Any advice?

Postby Virilana » Mon May 30, 2011 12:31 am

Alright I understand what you are saying... I'll go adjust my macros for that. I had pretty low hit for a while, about 1.95 or something in that area. The misses don't tend to irritate me so I never felt the need to get more hit for my sanity lol. I recently got Fluid Death which, even reforged to Mastery got me up above 3% hit. However things don't always go as planned, I do seem to miss at the most inopportune moments! This has all helped a lot, its easy enough to read up and practice a rotation, and to get gearing right etc. but the little things like the macros aren't readily out there as information that I've seen so thank you so much for taking the time to respond :)
Druids name WAS Atayla, now Kittylicious due to some harassment issues.... So that's who I am on my logs now :)

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Re: Any advice?

Postby Floofles » Mon May 30, 2011 3:46 am

My opener is not perfect at all and i'm sure others have much better openers, however.

Charge/FFF during travel -> Mangle -> SR -> TF -> Rake -> Mangle -> Ravage -> Rip (if 5cp) else Mangle -> Rip

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Re: Any advice?

Postby Tinderhoof » Mon May 30, 2011 4:49 am

Do you double pot in there? Also do you hold your first berserk till your second TF, or just pool energy after rip and do it then?

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Re: Any advice?

Postby Floofles » Mon May 30, 2011 5:20 am

After rip, then as soon as berserk ends, TF is availiable. I use my second potion on a later TF+Berserk.

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