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Nefarian Add Kiting/Tanking in p1

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Nefarian Add Kiting/Tanking in p1

Postby mekell » Tue Jun 07, 2011 12:08 pm

Hey all, my guild is on its last boss in normal modes, Nefarian is the only one left standing. Right now, I am doing the kiting in p1 and looking for any tips. They seem to spawn in random locations (i.e not in the same spot every time). I have modified my offspec slightly to reduce some damage i take, as well as provide some slows on them to make kiting a little easier.

For now, heres the approach i am taking:

For the first 2-3 adds, i feel like i can safely stay in cat form for extra speed, keeping drive-by infected wounds on them, natures grasp, etc. We have a hunter droping a frost trap for me to kite around (my kiting is horrid, i feel like I am getting hit way too much). And when we get them all in a nice little clump, we CC them as much as possible until they die of energy starvation. When the first one dies, i generally run in to the group and pop a cooldown or so to try to keep them as close together as possible.

Does this sound even remotely correct? It seemed to be working for us last night, we were getting a good ways into p3 each time towards the end of the night, and we will continue tonite to see how far we can get him. Any suggestions or tips would be helpful.

I think what is killing us is mana looks good going into p2, p2 strains mana a little bit, p3 still seems a bit chaotic. I am not kiting the adds in p3, our 2nd tank is, so i am left to dps at that point. Any tips that i might be able to pass along to the p3 add kiter would be very useful as well.

Thanks all!
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Re: Nefarian Add Kiting/Tanking in p1

Postby Konungr » Tue Jun 07, 2011 12:47 pm

What I do:

When I jump down, I am in Cat Form and I throw up FFF and Mangle and Rake on Ony. Then I run over to where the first add is going to spawn. As it touches down I use my Savage Roar and hit the add with a mangle and rake. This gives me threat and slows them. I hit dash and run around the circle, they always spawn in a counter clock-wise pattern from the first one. Mangle and Rake on each one, if one is up and i'm not close I will Feral Charge and use Ravage. By the time the fourth one spawns I will switch to bear form and use growl on the 5th one. Group them all up, if you can, get a mage to use Ring of Frost, kite them over it. Make sure to turn off auto-attack and just wait. Enrage is helpful, as well as FR if you don't use it do heal yourself during the lava transition. Barkskin is helpful, but try and save it for Electrocute if you can.

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Re: Nefarian Add Kiting/Tanking in p1

Postby mekell » Tue Jun 07, 2011 2:01 pm

Ok the tip about always spawning in counter-clockwise fashion will be very useful. I felt like i was just looking all over the place for the "void zones" on the ground where they were going to spawn.

I had started to dial in on the strategy you are suggesting with mangle and rake a little bit last night, i will try this some more tonight to hopefully help out even more.

Thanks Kon!
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Re: Nefarian Add Kiting/Tanking in p1

Postby Tinderhoof » Tue Jun 07, 2011 2:18 pm

Hey Mekell.

I had a few questions about your guild is doing the fight.
1. How many crackles (Electrocutes) are you taking in P1?
2. When are you using BL/H?
3. Do you try and force a crackle (Electrocute)during P2?
4. What class are you using to kite in P3?

I do have one suggestion for P1 for you. If you feel that you would like another cooldown option you should look into the Mirror of Broken Images (http://www.wowhead.com/item=68713). The on use is amazing for reducing damage of the crackles and for the P1-P2 transition. It's not the most amazing trinket for DPS (it does have plenty of mastery on it), but it will help keep you alive. It can also be helpful for some heroic fights as well so its worth looking into.

For P3 my best suggestions for your kiting tank is to be very careful with snaring and stunning effects. Snares which are auto applied like Infected Wounds often spell death in P3. The reason is if you have adds moving at different speeds it greatly raises their chance of being hit by the shadow flame ball that is targeting them. All stuns should be executed on the big ball of adds shortly after the tank has dragged them all away from the recent fireball. If stuns slows go out any time after that they will be likely be caught by the fire and have their energy restored.

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Re: Nefarian Add Kiting/Tanking in p1

Postby mekell » Tue Jun 07, 2011 3:32 pm

Tinder see my responses below:

1) Right now, we are just learning the fight, we havent pushed any crackles yet in p1 to try to just get a feel for how p3 is going to work
2) Heroism just a tad into p3 for the time being (this likely will change as we change how many crackles we try to pull)
3) none in p2 currently
4) DK tank

I mentioned trying to push a crackle or 2 in p1 last night, but since last night was our first ever real solid attempts at just working on him and his mechanics, we decided to try to get a feel for the mechanics of all the phases before we pushed anything else.

Notes:
Healer mana seems perfectly fine going into p2 with no crackles (as one might suspect)
p2 seems a bit stressful on the healers, but we adjusted some healing assignments based on who was on which platform and that seemed to help immensely.
Noone is dieing in p2 due to lava or missed interrupts so we seem to have that part down.

For reference our raid makeup is as follows:

Pally MT
DK OT
Holy Priest
Resto Sham
Resto Druid
Warlock
Hunter
Fury Warrior
Enhance/ele Sham
Me (Feral DPS)

I am trying to convince everyone that we will eventually need to put a crackle or 2 in p1, but we are so early in learning the fight its hard to provide enough evidence to do so at this point. They are convinced at the point that during p3 the only people taking damage are the Kiter and the Tank (with the exception of crackles). And crackles before or after p3 shouldn't make any difference.

Our dps is very good i would say ( I won't guess on numbers, and I forgot to upload logs from last night and i was too focused on trying to learn kiting duty in p1) but i get the feeling this fight is more about healing and execution. Our dps will likely have to slow down at times to avoid pushing too many crackles too quickly. I am typically our top dps in almost any fight, but my focus on this one is shifted, so i haven't been paying too many attention to the dps numbers, but we typically don't have any slackers.

I think for the moment, its just learning for us since the encounter is still new. Our best attempt got him to 38% last night and we would reliably get to p3 every time.

Is there any reason the raid shouldn't stack up during p3 to help AE heals be a bit more effective? I think that is something we might be able to focus on more tonite to help ease some of the healing pain i think the healers are seeing. THe fight being so new, people aren't quite as focused on where they are standing, ill bring that up tonite if thats a valid concern.

Thanks again guys!
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Re: Nefarian Add Kiting/Tanking in p1

Postby mekell » Tue Jun 07, 2011 3:47 pm

Further note: I know kiting in p3 was still being worked on last night, our DK just hadn't gotten the hang of it yet which lead to some stray shadowflame encrouching on the dps and nef. Ultimately that should never happen, but i am chucking that up being new to the phase again.

ultimately p3 kiting and healer mana are my main thoughts as to what we need to correct and i think we will probably have him.

Follow-up on my crackle comments before: have you guys heard of ever doing this fight without pushing a crackle at all in p1? Keep in mind this is normal mode.
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Re: Nefarian Add Kiting/Tanking in p1

Postby Qbear » Tue Jun 07, 2011 3:53 pm

I've seen it done that way, it puts a lot of stress on your kiting tank though a bunch of wipes at less than 10% due to fail kiting and hes going to remind you how you could of easily had the boss dead if you would of just pushed the crackle.

I know when we were still killing this on Norm we always lusted in P2. Getting out of that phase fast was always what we were going for just due to stress on healers, as well as larger window for missed kicks.

Just keep plugging away at him I had a fortune cookie next to me (random but delicious) so I opened it and it told me there will be many a dead dragon in your near future so don't make the cookie a liar.

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Re: Nefarian Add Kiting/Tanking in p1

Postby mekell » Tue Jun 07, 2011 4:05 pm

That brings up a valid point that I will bring up tonite that i think the raid leaders are overlooking, which is that crackles in p1 are far easier to deal with than crackles in p3.

Lusting in p2 seems to be a good idea too since it does seem by far the most stressful mana-wise on the healers.
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Re: Nefarian Add Kiting/Tanking in p1

Postby Annunaki » Tue Jun 07, 2011 5:41 pm

I noticed your comp. includes a Resto Shaman. I play Resto Shaman in 10m, and P2 is actually my "get mana back" phase. I keep 2 riptides up, Earth Shield up, and then Telluric Currents takes care of my mana. I usually go into P3 with > 100k mana, and drop Mana Tide for the other healers.

I strongly suggest pushing at least 1 if not 2 Crackles during P1. We push 3, but it requires very careful timing and controlled DPS on Ony. When the Electrocute warning goes off for the 3rd time, Ony needs to be dropped then, otherwise she'll explode with the 3rd.

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Re: Nefarian Add Kiting/Tanking in p1

Postby mekell » Tue Jun 07, 2011 9:59 pm

We got him :). We ended up pushing 2 crackles in p1, and once we did that, it was just a matter of time. p3 went super smooth until the very end, but we squeeked it out.

Thanks guys!
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Re: Nefarian Add Kiting/Tanking in p1

Postby Tinderhoof » Tue Jun 07, 2011 11:17 pm

Gratz man.

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Re: Nefarian Add Kiting/Tanking in p1

Postby shinryu » Tue Jun 07, 2011 11:48 pm

Bit late to the party, but grats on your Nef kill!

As for me, I just pop bear form and round them up, the adds themselves hit so weakly it's not even funny and a spare healer can easily keep you up with minimal effort, it's just abilities like ony's lightning that sucks trying to live through. Granted, I have the 3 talents to be crit immune, but I believe the adds won't do crits on you anyways I believe because they're not a boss level mob, they're only like 88 aren't they? But yeah, I run around and round em up, stay behind ony for her first lightning (none of the mobs should be dropping yet anyways), then just run to the place we designate for them to die and stand there. By the time ony's 2nd lightning attack comes, almost half the adds have dropped anyways, so I just pop Survival Instincts/Frenzied Regen (non-glyphed of course) and live through it. DPS during all that time is dropping ony to sub-25% HP or whatever so she's easily to kill when her charge is near critical, then we just switch to nef and burn him through 2 (occasionally 3 if everyone else is on top of their rotations) crackles, kill, on, and proceed from there.

You were correct about having to get the crackles in btw, 2 (or dropping him to 80% and below HP) is essential to winning the fight, as in P3 he eventually overwhelms the add tank with too many meteors (reviving/powering adds), the adds never drop off and just keep gaining strength until they wipe that tank and the raid.

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Re: Nefarian Add Kiting/Tanking in p1

Postby Sylvaneart » Wed Jun 08, 2011 9:05 am

Good job Mek. I know you have a strat now but
P1 - Push 2 crackles, add tnak picks adds up counter-clockwise and just tanks aginst wall until the drop
P2 - We kill 2 adds and get 3rd super low since normal mode isnt a race to get out of like heroic Phase 2 This gives us more time to DPS nef. Push 2 crackles
P3 - Heroism all out burn

EDIT: We got a new tank and he is MUCH better about kiting adds in P3 so we no longer try to extend P2.
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Re: Nefarian Add Kiting/Tanking in p1

Postby mekell » Wed Jun 08, 2011 9:30 am

our first kill was messy in p3, but up to and including p3, it felt like it was going to be the kill-shot the whole time. about 15 seconds into p3, our holy priest hard-locks. We manage to keep him up with some rotating of nef (he ended up standing right in front of nef's face :x), at about 13% between still trying to adjust for that and just trying to get our first kill, the adds got hit with an extra flame so they never reset properly, the last crackle came at a bad time, yadda yadda yadda...but it was too late, dead nefarian.

One thing I did during p1 that i will share, for our group dps wasnt a problem. We were actually having to control dps a bit to avoid pushing crackles too fast so right after the first crackle in p1, i would pop tranquility just to help healers save some mana and get things caught back up. Our resto druid did the 2nd crackle, and then we moved on into p2. Ultimately i dont know how much this changed anything for us, but it seemed like a slightly better way to make use of some nromally unused cooldowns.

Thanks a bunch for the tips guys, it helped a lot. First kills arent pretty all the time, but sometimes the messier they are, the better they feel when you pull them off :)
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