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Leafkiller's 4.2 Feral Ovale Script

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Re: Leafkiller's 4.2 Feral Ovale Script

Postby Oronare » Sat Sep 17, 2011 8:14 am

Just wondering if this is right;

For some reason it is suggesting that I use berserk when I have 0 energy. The previous script (4.1) would always tell me to TF then Zerk, but this just shows the berserk icon, even with TF off CD and my energy super low.

The 4.1 one seems to give me more dps also.

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Re: Leafkiller's 4.2 Feral Ovale Script

Postby Leafkiller » Sat Sep 17, 2011 2:29 pm

Oronare wrote:Just wondering if this is right;

For some reason it is suggesting that I use berserk when I have 0 energy. The previous script (4.1) would always tell me to TF then Zerk, but this just shows the berserk icon, even with TF off CD and my energy super low.

The 4.1 one seems to give me more dps also.


The script is assuming you have TF bound into your Berserk macro and you are hitting both together.

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Re: Leafkiller's 4.2 Feral Ovale Script

Postby Pahrud » Sun Sep 18, 2011 9:05 am

Leafkiller wrote:
Beanna wrote:Is there any way to disable the Berserker icon on the main rotation box when the energy is not high enough like it is set in the 1.3.2 script? Having a box completely monopolised by the berserker icon during several minutes when you want to save your berserker for some special phase is really annoying for the rotation.


Click on the box and deselect Berserk from the options that pop up. The option is still there to toggle it.[/quote

First, thanks LK for this. I'm late to the Ovale party (my kitty has been on the shelf).

Second, I'm not having any luck turning off Berserk. When I click on the window, the only options that pop up are: Faerie Fire, Shred, Mangle, AOE, Demoralizing Roar. That's it. I tried resizing the window to see if there were options above/below and that was not the case.

Any help is much appreciated.

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Re: Leafkiller's 4.2 Feral Ovale Script

Postby Leafkiller » Sun Sep 18, 2011 1:37 pm

Sounds like you are using the default script and not my script. Go to the top post of this thread and go to the blog post I linked for how to install my script.

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Re: Leafkiller's 4.2 Feral Ovale Script

Postby Leafkiller » Mon Sep 19, 2011 12:00 am

New version of the script with some minor changes:

4.2.14 Add switch to FB less aggressively outside of Berserk. Change the name of RAVAGE! to RAVAGEBANG to fix
the spell being greyed out when displayed.

I added in the FB switch because with ilvl 376 gear using FB aggressively is dps neutral and even in full 391 gear it is only a 20 dps gain in the sims on a Patchwerk style fight. In actual play where we have lag and non-robot like reflexes, it seems like it could leads to lower Rip uptimes. Note - this change is only for the FB that is outside of Berserk.

The change to use RAVAGEBANG is transparent to users of the script.

As a side note, I have posted an issue on the Ovale forums about the screen lag that is seen when the Stampede buff is cleared by casting Ravage!. This is not an issue with my script (it happens if I remove all of my Ravage/Stampede logic) and may be an issue with WoW itself (as a side effect of processing done in Ovale - possibly when it is reading the Combat log).

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Re: Leafkiller's 4.2 Feral Ovale Script

Postby Grenache » Mon Sep 19, 2011 12:19 am

Thanks Leaf - I only mentioned this casually last week and you've already added it. Thanks! I am 378 now and I will be turning it off for sure.

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Re: Leafkiller's 4.2 Feral Ovale Script

Postby Arthaei » Tue Oct 04, 2011 10:10 am

Cheers for the updates Leafkiller. I was curious, are there distinct advantages to actually using FB during Berserk, especially with the T12 2set bonus? - At the moment I am raiding with another kitty (DURIDS IS MUST ALWAYZ HALP EECH OTHER: sumtimes a new durid is need sum halp and advise frum a good durid so u shuld alway halp unother) :) and I have been incorporating it whereas he has not and we have very similar dps.

Also, there's an increased risk of lower Rip uptime with the aggressive fb toggled on, but from what I can see with a hit+exp favoured setup with haste, it's pretty easily recovered from.
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Re: Leafkiller's 4.2 Feral Ovale Script

Postby Leafkiller » Tue Oct 04, 2011 1:57 pm

Arthaei wrote:I was curious, are there distinct advantages to actually using FB during Berserk, especially with the T12 2set bonus?


The dps difference is very small until you get the 4 piece set bonus - then it is substantial.

Arthaei wrote:Also, there's an increased risk of lower Rip uptime with the aggressive fb toggled on, but from what I can see with a hit+exp favoured setup with haste, it's pretty easily recovered from.


I turned it off for now - I was unhappy with my uptimes on Rake/Rip. I will retest when my gear improves, but likely it is a small enough difference (even less than your reforging choices) that personal preference and comfort will matter more.

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Re: Leafkiller's 4.2 Feral Ovale Script

Postby Leafkiller » Tue Oct 04, 2011 2:07 pm

Do you guys want a mangle only option? I have always hesitated to implement it because of how many toggles there already are and also because there are very few fights where you are always in front of the mob. Implementing it is easy, but I can see it being annoying on a fight like Rag where you could be in front for most of phase 2, but not during the other phases.

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Re: Leafkiller's 4.2 Feral Ovale Script

Postby shinryu » Tue Oct 04, 2011 4:13 pm

Leafkiller wrote:Do you guys want a mangle only option? I have always hesitated to implement it because of how many toggles there already are and also because there are very few fights where you are always in front of the mob. Implementing it is easy, but I can see it being annoying on a fight like Rag where you could be in front for most of phase 2, but not during the other phases.

Doesn't really seem necessary to me, for those few fights like Rag I just make a note to hit mangle whenever I see shred.

Now if most of the Dragon Soul raids would require us being in front (as dumb as that would be), then maybe it'd be worth considering. But for now just on Rag, not really necessary I'd think, maybe just save it for whenever you update the script for 4.3 as a side option?

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Re: Leafkiller's 4.2 Feral Ovale Script

Postby Druidohorde » Tue Oct 04, 2011 4:15 pm

^^^ /agree

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Re: Leafkiller's 4.2 Feral Ovale Script

Postby Sorcerer » Tue Oct 04, 2011 5:56 pm

Leaf is it possible to make a code similar to your mangle suggestion regarding lower rip/rake clipping treshhold for those hit/exp capped?
In T11 there was a reason for it, since we could have missed rake/rip and needed extra global to renew in case. Nowadays I don't see a reason for it.

Many times nowadays I am sitting at 5 CP, rake 3sec left and I get suggestion to rake, meanwhile I could use a finisher than rake, wasting less CP.
It will be really minor DPS increase at best, but It is often annoying on the pulls when you pot and script suggests to clip rip like 3sec before it drops, what we can't really do since more powerfull effect is already applied. It's a bit of lazyness too, but it is mostly annoying during berserk + heroism + both trinkets haste procs.

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Re: Leafkiller's 4.2 Feral Ovale Script

Postby Grenache » Wed Oct 05, 2011 1:47 am

Hey guys, just curious what sort of Rip, Rake and SR uptimes you are seeing when strictly following the current Ovale script by Leaf on a Baleroc style fight. I know some people in the other thread have posted some amazing uptimes on their WoL parses, but I have never gone close to the Rip 92%+ seen by those folks, and I'm wondering whether I should be rethinking my strategy - going back to basics and relying on my NTK timers.

Is there a way to accurately measure uptimes on a target dummy? I never know how to get out of combat quickly when I want to stop.

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Re: Leafkiller's 4.2 Feral Ovale Script

Postby Leafkiller » Wed Oct 05, 2011 3:07 am

On my most recent normal Baleroc I was at 88.4% for Rip and 96.1% for Rake. Some Rip uptime is sacrificed for FBs - which is why I added the switch to toggle off aggressive FBs outside of Berserk - because it was higher than I expected. Getting higher uptimes on Rip/Rake alone is not necessarily correct, because you may be sacrificing other dps (lost shreds for example).

@Sorcerer - Rip has a 2 second window in which it tried to clip and Rake has a 2.9 second window. However, Rake is after all of the finishers in the script so if any of them need to be cast, they will come before the Rake clip. It is likely that you might as well go ahead and clip it when it is ready - I doubt what you are suggesting will be a dps gain. The thresholds are based on clipping during the last tick since that tick is added on and no Rip/Rake ticks are lost. The only cost might be a combo point but we are not short of combo points to keep Rip and SR running.

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Re: Leafkiller's 4.2 Feral Ovale Script

Postby BoldTM » Wed Oct 05, 2011 3:48 am

I have added a "in front" option that i switch on and off during fights since it gives me the option to change the logic a bit.

I have also added a check to show Mangle if i am on 100 energy as a "soft" indication that i am not hitting the target with shred, either due to be out of melee range or that i am in front of the boss. Good for Staghelm Scorpion for example.

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Re: Leafkiller's 4.2 Feral Ovale Script

Postby Arthaei » Wed Oct 05, 2011 12:51 pm

I don't think a Mangle-only option would make any sense, especially now with the larger arc we have on bosses with which to Shred, it isn't much of an issue on Rag to substitute Mangle for Shred when the need arises, and I seriously doubt we will ever get a fight like Kologarn again anytime soon.

How about a new toggle for no FB during Berserk for those of us without T12 4pc Leaf? or maybe a 'detect t12 4pc' that fb's during berserk if it detects it and doesn't if not.
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Re: Leafkiller's 4.2 Feral Ovale Script

Postby Leafkiller » Wed Oct 05, 2011 3:28 pm

Arthaei wrote:I don't think a Mangle-only option would make any sense, especially now with the larger arc we have on bosses with which to Shred, it isn't much of an issue on Rag to substitute Mangle for Shred when the need arises, and I seriously doubt we will ever get a fight like Kologarn again anytime soon.

How about a new toggle for no FB during Berserk for those of us without T12 4pc Leaf? or maybe a 'detect t12 4pc' that fb's during berserk if it detects it and doesn't if not.


At our current gear levels, using the4 aggressive FB during berserk tests out to be a slight dps gain, despite slightly lower uptimes on Rip/SR. Testing showed this to be the case in T11 gear. This is why there is no check for 4 piece.

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Re: Leafkiller's 4.2 Feral Ovale Script

Postby Devils » Wed Oct 05, 2011 7:08 pm

Leaf, will you insert Tricks of the Trade to your script? it works like Tigers Fury (+bleed damage, rake/rip clipping etc)

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Re: Leafkiller's 4.2 Feral Ovale Script

Postby Leafkiller » Wed Oct 05, 2011 7:34 pm

Devils wrote:Leaf, will you insert Tricks of the Trade to your script? it works like Tigers Fury (+bleed damage, rake/rip clipping etc)


I will have to think about that one. Let me ping Yawning about adding it as a periodic buff so it can be simmed. While it is similar to TF in that in increases damage every 30 seconds (15% for 6 seconds) it does not give you extra energy to burn. It is likely that you would not want to pool energy while ToT is up - but again, that is something I would like to sim before adding.

Hmm - this is already in Mew as a selectable buff, but there is no API support to test for it.

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Re: Leafkiller's 4.2 Feral Ovale Script

Postby Leafkiller » Thu Oct 06, 2011 6:11 pm

I did some preliminary testing with ToTT. As an aside, there is no Rip clipping in the code for TF. Yawning pulled this out as it measured as a dps loss in T12.

I was not able to do much with Rake clipping as I did not have a test to tell me Rake had been case during ToTT and with the timing in Mew, Tf follows ToTT for a large portion of the fight, and (I suspect) I ended up double clipping it, which was a dps loss. Even if I get the proper tests in Mew for this, I don't know how I could tell in game. Assuming Yawning provides a hook for this I will see what the potential gain is. I did add a conditional to the Shred code to have it not pool energy with TOTT up and that was a 30dps increase - with an error margin of about 14dps. So it is a small dps gain to incorporate this into the rotation, but not enough that people will notice. It is an easy change to make to the code though.

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Re: Leafkiller's 4.2 Feral Ovale Script

Postby BoldTM » Sat Oct 08, 2011 3:04 am

I have created a small hack in ovale that will let me track things that occurred during the execution of a spell. So i can see the what AP was used when casting RIP and i can also check if RIP/RAKE was cast during TF or TOTT etc.

I can share it with you guys if you want but i think the best option is if Sid can update Ovale to help us out since i am pretty confident that his solution will be better then mine.

I have not tested to change the leaf script in order to use it as of yet since i am away from my computer.

But what is it we can achieve with it?
* Is it better to not refresh RIP/RAKE if the current was cast with TF and/or higher AP?
* Is there a breakpoint in RIP where i should refresh it if TF is up and AP is higher then was used when casting the current one?
* What other stats, buffs should i check for? AP, CP, TF, TOTT etc.

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Re: Leafkiller's 4.2 Feral Ovale Script

Postby Yawning » Sat Oct 08, 2011 1:46 pm

BoldTM wrote:But what is it we can achieve with it?
* Is it better to not refresh RIP/RAKE if the current was cast with TF and/or higher AP?
* Is there a breakpoint in RIP where i should refresh it if TF is up and AP is higher then was used when casting the current one?
* What other stats, buffs should i check for? AP, CP, TF, TOTT etc.


The no brainers:
* Non-ToTT + TFed Rake should be refreshed with a ToTTed/TFed Rake at < 9.0 sec.
* Rip should not be clipped because of a change in TF/ToTT. (*Maybe* if you have both up, need to sim it to be sure. The window is more than likely going to be fairly narrow.)
* CPs are irrelevant, because using < 5cp Rips is bad, and you can't clip a higher CP Rip with a lower one, even if it made sense to do so (and it's probably never a gain).
* There's no real point in obsessing over pushing back Rake/Rip refresh due to stat/multiplier decreases. It's one tick. It will sim as a net increase, but the sim runs at 0 latency/reaction time. Realistic results will be lower.

Educated guess(es):
* There's probably no point in clipping Rip unless the AP delta is massive. (It's not worth clipping Rip for TF. You would need an obnoxiously large AP increase to see an equivalent increase to TF.)
* Likewise there's probably no realistically obtainable AP delta that will make clipping Rake profitable. Unless you are dealing with a massive increase in AP, the window will be quite narrow.
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Re: Leafkiller's 4.2 Feral Ovale Script

Postby Leafkiller » Sat Oct 08, 2011 2:21 pm

The biggest advantage of knowing if Rip has a higher AP is to not show it as a recommendation when it cannot be overwritten.

There is an advantage to knowing how many combo points are on a Rip just to handle the fat finger case where someone accidentally put a lower combo point Rip up - although that is not something we have simmed since Mew never hits the wrong key.

@BoldTM - if you share your hack, I could update the script, but there is no rush on that since the sim work has not been done yet. Yawning gave me hooks for testing ToTT, but he had not yet provided any to comparing the AP on Rip.

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Re: Leafkiller's 4.2 Feral Ovale Script

Postby BoldTM » Sat Oct 08, 2011 3:10 pm

We are refreshing RIP/RAKE before the last tick since its not a loss since we are not loosing any ticks, but if the current RIP/RAKE have either TF buff or have higher AP should it not be a dps loss to refresh it before it ticks?

Also if we know that the RIP is AP and/or TF buffed should we not shift some of the safeguard timers? IE as above we should not overwrite them before after the last tick?

As you states Yaw, there is possible no gain in clipping RAKE/RIP due to AP or TF but is it a gain to let it tick out?

@Leaf, yes sure but i will add the hack to the ovale forum so that Sid, if he is available, can say if there is a issue with my hack or not. And i want to test it a bit more as well so that i am 100% sure that i have not introduce any bugs to it. I still hope that he comes up with a better, more generic, solution to the request. The functionality should benefit all classes with dots/bleeds.

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Re: Leafkiller's 4.2 Feral Ovale Script

Postby Yawning » Sat Oct 08, 2011 5:35 pm

I'm sufficiently bored, my wrists are too screwed up to play more guitar, so I'll answer some questions and post some math, since it's fairly obvious even without simming that this is pointless. (Note: I'm flooring, though I strongly suspect the wow engine casts to int instead. Margin of error is +- 1 each time I do this, but it's not significant.)

Rip: (56 + 161 * 5 + 0.1035 * AP * 8) / 8 * 1.3 * 1.15
Rake: (56 * 3 + AP * 0.378) / 3 * 1.3
Cat AP (w/Raid Buffs, 4.3 mechanics): (Base + (Agi - 10) * 2 + (Str - 10)) * 1.25 * 1.2 * 1.1

APS Agi: 1277 * 1.05 * 1.05 = 1407
Pot Agi: 1200 * 1.05 * 1.05 = 1323

Pushing back refresh assuming you manage to hit it exactly as it expires gains one more buffed tick.

deltaAP (APS) = 1407 * 2 * 1.25 * 1.2 * 1.1 = 4643
deltaAP (Pot) = 1323 * 1.25 * 1.2 * 1.1 = 2183

deltaDmg/tick Rip (APS): 4643 * 0.0135 * 1.3 * 1.15 = 93 (deltaDPS = 1.55)
deltaDmg/tick Rake (APS): 4643 * 0.378 / 3 * 1.3 = 760 (deltaDPS = 12.66667)

deltaDmg/tick Rip (Pot): 2183 * 0.0135 * 1.3 * 1.15 = 33 (deltaDPS w/ 150 sec encounter = 0.44)
deltaDmg/tick Rake (Pot): 2183 * 0.378 / 3 * 1.3 = 357 (deltaDPS w/150 sec encounter = 4.76)

I used a 150 sec encounter since that's approaching the low end for actually getting 2 potions in. Naturally longer encounters dramatically start to decrease the DPS gain since the number of potions does not increase.

Note that this assumes 0 Rake/Rip uptime loss. You will push back the next Rake/Rip slightly if you are human and not connected to the servers with ethernet, so actual results will be lower (potentially a loss). I would show numbers for TF, but I can't be bothered figuring out what the average AP is for a raid buffed cat is these days.

Given that StdDev for perfect 0 latency kitty is ~746 (over approximately one month of combat time), I do not think something that's extremely timing sensitive for a infinitesimally small gain is worth examining at all. (NB: The closed form approximations I've given also assume 0% crit. However, even at 100% crit, the gain is non-interesting.)

For anything but a simulator, messing with any of these will be lost in the noise. I would say something along the lines of "If the unwashed masses care enough, I can make Mew do the 'right thing' and inflate reported DPS even higher", but "The avalanche has already started. It is too late for the pebbles to vote.".
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