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Ricket's Magnetic Fireball

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Ricket's Magnetic Fireball

Postby Flidis » Sat Jul 23, 2011 11:30 am

I know this wasn't put in the list because Alaron wasn't sure of it's proc, but I was wondering if anyone had info on it? My guess if I were to get it I would replace Unheeded Warning and keep Fluid Death and this? Here's the link to Ricket's Magnetic Fireball http://www.wowhead.com/item=70144

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Re: Ricket's Magnetic Fireball

Postby shinryu » Sat Jul 23, 2011 4:36 pm

Highly doubting it would beat UW (unless it gets nerfed), UW is still theoretically the best trinket we have, but issues with when it procs (ie, not during burn phases, heroism, etc) makes it worth less depending on your view.

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Re: Ricket's Magnetic Fireball

Postby Tinderhoof » Sat Jul 23, 2011 8:29 pm

shinryu wrote:Highly doubting it would beat UW (unless it gets nerfed), UW is still theoretically the best trinket we have, but issues with when it procs (ie, not during burn phases, heroism, etc) makes it worth less depending on your view.

The massive loss of agility between other trinkets and the fact that it does not buff Swipe at all is also a major factor.

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Re: Ricket's Magnetic Fireball

Postby Flidis » Sun Jul 24, 2011 12:32 am

OK so stay away from it unless they do something crazy to UW. Thanks for the reply!

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Re: Ricket's Magnetic Fireball

Postby Tinderhoof » Sun Jul 24, 2011 3:30 am

Flidis wrote:OK so stay away from it unless they do something crazy to UW. Thanks for the reply!

Perhaps you misunderstood about UW. As it is right now it isn't all that great before any nerfs. If you have 100% uptime on the boss its pretty decent, however it can still proc at bad times that won't make full use of its decent power. Any fight with high amounts of down time, target switches or swipe use do not favor UW because of how little the buff is used.

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Re: Ricket's Magnetic Fireball

Postby shinryu » Sun Jul 24, 2011 5:41 am

Offtopic going here, but I do find it funny how people are bashing UW now compared to how many people were praising its godly powers not even a month ago XD

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Re: Ricket's Magnetic Fireball

Postby Konungr » Sun Jul 24, 2011 10:29 am

shinryu wrote:Offtopic going here, but I do find it funny how people are bashing UW now compared to how many people were praising its godly powers not even a month ago XD


Pretty sure Tinderhoof has maintained his stance for quite a while, and I changed mine after Floofees and Tinder made me see the light on the subject. I have had it equipped since Thursday in anticipation of getting my Revered trinket, I was using Fluid Death and wanted to go ahead and take it off and reforge so that I could just equip it and run w/ Hit/Exp being all whack.

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Re: Ricket's Magnetic Fireball

Postby shinryu » Sun Jul 24, 2011 4:49 pm

Konungr wrote:
shinryu wrote:Offtopic going here, but I do find it funny how people are bashing UW now compared to how many people were praising its godly powers not even a month ago XD


Pretty sure Tinderhoof has maintained his stance for quite a while, and I changed mine after Floofees and Tinder made me see the light on the subject. I have had it equipped since Thursday in anticipation of getting my Revered trinket, I was using Fluid Death and wanted to go ahead and take it off and reforge so that I could just equip it and run w/ Hit/Exp being all whack.

Well I wasn't pegging him, but just more the general attitude hear towards it now. And then you see people whining about it on the forums on how OP it is and I just find it greatly amusing really because of the general disconnect.

Personally I still use mine, wasted enough time/gold getting hit and exp capped without FD, don't want to waste more time upsetting it. That and there are no aoe phases I partake in, so UW is fine in that regard, and I don't have H Prestor (nor do I see the Rep one being super good, as that's yet another macro I don't have room to write to use it with TF).

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Re: Ricket's Magnetic Fireball

Postby Konungr » Sun Jul 24, 2011 11:58 pm

shinryu wrote:
Konungr wrote:
shinryu wrote:Offtopic going here, but I do find it funny how people are bashing UW now compared to how many people were praising its godly powers not even a month ago XD


Pretty sure Tinderhoof has maintained his stance for quite a while, and I changed mine after Floofees and Tinder made me see the light on the subject. I have had it equipped since Thursday in anticipation of getting my Revered trinket, I was using Fluid Death and wanted to go ahead and take it off and reforge so that I could just equip it and run w/ Hit/Exp being all whack.

Well I wasn't pegging him, but just more the general attitude hear towards it now. And then you see people whining about it on the forums on how OP it is and I just find it greatly amusing really because of the general disconnect.

Personally I still use mine, wasted enough time/gold getting hit and exp capped without FD, don't want to waste more time upsetting it. That and there are no aoe phases I partake in, so UW is fine in that regard, and I don't have H Prestor (nor do I see the Rep one being super good, as that's yet another macro I don't have room to write to use it with TF).



Ancient Seed should be a great trinket, based on the high amounts of Mastery and the 25% uptime. Since 4.1 (?) you should be using a TF/Berserk macro anyways so that they coincide with each other to shave off that second or so it takes to double-tap your keybind, just roll the trinket right into it, as seen in one of my macros I posted. If you can't find the thread with it here in the Kitty Forums, check the UI/Addons Section, it is posted there too.

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Re: Ricket's Magnetic Fireball

Postby shinryu » Mon Jul 25, 2011 2:25 am

Eh I won't lie, I don't have them macro'd together still out of habit, just something about preferring to push both individually (but still right after one another); don't like having to keep a separate key for just TF and then one with a macro since there are still times you will want to delay a Berserk, like to match it with Hero or something. For example, on our Baleroc tries anyways, we don't do Hero till 35%, and with our dps levels, he isn't around that point till at least 4-4.5 minutes into the fight, which given that I use Berserk right away, means I like to delay it a minute and use just a TF to wait to get the maximum benefit in hero a minute or more later.

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Re: Ricket's Magnetic Fireball

Postby Leafkiller » Mon Jul 25, 2011 3:08 am

shinryu wrote:Eh I won't lie, I don't have them macro'd together still out of habit, just something about preferring to push both individually (but still right after one another); don't like having to keep a separate key for just TF and then one with a macro since there are still times you will want to delay a Berserk, like to match it with Hero or something. For example, on our Baleroc tries anyways, we don't do Hero till 35%, and with our dps levels, he isn't around that point till at least 4-4.5 minutes into the fight, which given that I use Berserk right away, means I like to delay it a minute and use just a TF to wait to get the maximum benefit in hero a minute or more later.


I have a key for TF and a key for TF/Berserk. I agree that you need the ability to cast them separately so you can time your Berserk, but there is no reason to not have TF macroed into your Berserk key. Once I get APS, I will macro it to both keys.

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Re: Ricket's Magnetic Fireball

Postby Yawning » Mon Jul 25, 2011 5:10 am

shinryu wrote:Well I wasn't pegging him, but just more the general attitude hear towards it now. And then you see people whining about it on the forums on how OP it is and I just find it greatly amusing really because of the general disconnect.

Personally I still use mine, wasted enough time/gold getting hit and exp capped without FD, don't want to waste more time upsetting it. That and there are no aoe phases I partake in, so UW is fine in that regard, and I don't have H Prestor (nor do I see the Rep one being super good, as that's yet another macro I don't have room to write to use it with TF).


Sigh.

It's not nearly as bad a people make it out to be, unless your encounter is AoE happy. The Sim does not optimize around Unheeded Warning, because there's exactly one situation where it makes sense to do so (You prioritize Shred over FB with the proc up, when target HP > 25%, *and* your gear is terrible (As in < 372 ish gear)). That means that for a tank and spank encounter, it is exactly as good as advertised, and the fact that when you're playing you end up refreshing DoTs/SR while the proc is up is exactly what the Sim is doing when that situation occurs, so it's not significantly different from the results.

This also means that if people are altering their behavior because the trinket is proced, chances are they're screwing themselves out of damage.

Situations when Unheeded Warning isn't as great as the alternatives:
  • You AoE a lot.
  • You waste the bulk of the proc consistently due to "encounter mechanics" when you have a higher ilevel trinket available, since you lose out on passive agility in order to get a superior proc. Situations that this is applicable would be fights where you have consistently have a forced target swap after the trinket procs.

That's it. How likely is the latter to occur? Dunno. Use SVN Mew and model target swapping (and AoE), and write some scripts that will model such situations.

Anyway, Ricket's Magnetic Fireball's passive component is utterly terrible and is there as fluff (~300 dmg/120 sec). SVN Mew models it, but it does not matter at all because it's a RNG proc that's worth 2-3 DPS. SVN Mew is also considerably better than live Mew about using on use trinkets/engineering tinkers properly, and thus values clicky trinkets much higher (In particular Ancient Petrified Seed is quite good).
"Understanding is a three-edged sword."

Mew: http://code.google.com/p/mew-wow-druid-model/

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Re: Ricket's Magnetic Fireball

Postby shinryu » Mon Jul 25, 2011 5:22 am

Leafkiller wrote:
shinryu wrote:Eh I won't lie, I don't have them macro'd together still out of habit, just something about preferring to push both individually (but still right after one another); don't like having to keep a separate key for just TF and then one with a macro since there are still times you will want to delay a Berserk, like to match it with Hero or something. For example, on our Baleroc tries anyways, we don't do Hero till 35%, and with our dps levels, he isn't around that point till at least 4-4.5 minutes into the fight, which given that I use Berserk right away, means I like to delay it a minute and use just a TF to wait to get the maximum benefit in hero a minute or more later.


I have a key for TF and a key for TF/Berserk. I agree that you need the ability to cast them separately so you can time your Berserk, but there is no reason to not have TF macroed into your Berserk key. Once I get APS, I will macro it to both keys.

Well the thing is, I go the more unorthodox method and use a game controller to play lol (I did it more for the ideal that it could be done, it's actually quite fun with my old Logitech rumblepad 2). So with that, there's a fairly limited number of buttons I can macro, and almost all of them have one modifier attached as well. So for example, here's the basic macro I use:

#showtooltip
/cast [nomodifier] Tiger's Fury; [modifier:alt] Berserk

So I mean, is there any way I can make it so unmodified it still does TF, but then if I hit alt (which is a button on my game controller), would cast both TF and Berserk? Would like commas work here, or not? I'm not really a macro expert, but if there's a way to tie it all to one button, please let me know lol.

Then again I should be getting a Razr Naga very soon, so it's a semi-moot point as I'll move back to my Nostromo N52 and mouse then, but still...

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Re: Ricket's Magnetic Fireball

Postby Yawning » Mon Jul 25, 2011 5:41 am

shinryu wrote:Well the thing is, I go the more unorthodox method and use a game controller to play lol (I did it more for the ideal that it could be done, it's actually quite fun with my old Logitech rumblepad 2). So with that, there's a fairly limited number of buttons I can macro, and almost all of them have one modifier attached as well. So for example, here's the basic macro I use:

#showtooltip
/cast [nomodifier] Tiger's Fury; [modifier:alt] Berserk

So I mean, is there any way I can make it so unmodified it still does TF, but then if I hit alt (which is a button on my game controller), would cast both TF and Berserk? Would like commas work here, or not? I'm not really a macro expert, but if there's a way to tie it all to one button, please let me know lol.

Then again I should be getting a Razr Naga very soon, so it's a semi-moot point as I'll move back to my Nostromo N52 and mouse then, but still...


... You should totally play with a joystick next.

#showtooltip
/cast Tiger's Fury
/cast [mod:alt] Berserk

Always cast TF, add Berserk if alt is held down.
"Understanding is a three-edged sword."

Mew: http://code.google.com/p/mew-wow-druid-model/

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Re: Ricket's Magnetic Fireball

Postby shinryu » Mon Jul 25, 2011 4:46 pm

Yawning wrote:
shinryu wrote:Well the thing is, I go the more unorthodox method and use a game controller to play lol (I did it more for the ideal that it could be done, it's actually quite fun with my old Logitech rumblepad 2). So with that, there's a fairly limited number of buttons I can macro, and almost all of them have one modifier attached as well. So for example, here's the basic macro I use:

#showtooltip
/cast [nomodifier] Tiger's Fury; [modifier:alt] Berserk

So I mean, is there any way I can make it so unmodified it still does TF, but then if I hit alt (which is a button on my game controller), would cast both TF and Berserk? Would like commas work here, or not? I'm not really a macro expert, but if there's a way to tie it all to one button, please let me know lol.

Then again I should be getting a Razr Naga very soon, so it's a semi-moot point as I'll move back to my Nostromo N52 and mouse then, but still...


... You should totally play with a joystick next.

#showtooltip
/cast Tiger's Fury
/cast [mod:alt] Berserk

Always cast TF, add Berserk if alt is held down.

You are truly a king amongst ferals, thanks for the macro fix! :D

But yeah, I'd love to play with like dual joystiqs, kinda pretend like playing with a mech or something for shits and giggles, but unfortunately I don't have 2 joystiqs :(

Not to mention Feral needs one too many buttons for it to work well...now for like my Ret pally though, that would be more than possible since I could probably macro a basic pally rotation to be crammed within 3-4 buttons, so triggers + missile buttons alone on each would be 4 and enough lol. About the only tech I haven't tried using yet with WoW is my one Essential Reality glove; what it basically is is kinda like an advanced Power Glove for PCs I guess for a better lack of terminology, where it senses things in 3d and you wear a glove on one hand and it's responsive to gestures and such. Pretty fun toy, but it's way too big without having a PC to use it with (I play WoW on a laptop currently).

http://store.razerzone.com/store/razeru ... d.56404900 would also be something I'd love to try out, but $130 is a bit out of my price range atm.

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Re: Ricket's Magnetic Fireball

Postby Flidis » Sat Jul 30, 2011 7:49 pm

Tinderhoof wrote:
Flidis wrote:OK so stay away from it unless they do something crazy to UW. Thanks for the reply!

Perhaps you misunderstood about UW. As it is right now it isn't all that great before any nerfs. If you have 100% uptime on the boss its pretty decent, however it can still proc at bad times that won't make full use of its decent power. Any fight with high amounts of down time, target switches or swipe use do not favor UW because of how little the buff is used.



Sorry I'm just now reading this. Ok I'm still a little confused. I think I can grasp that UW is better for bosses where your mainly on the boss a lot. What I'm still not sure of is which is better overall.

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Re: Ricket's Magnetic Fireball

Postby Kojo » Sat Jul 30, 2011 8:43 pm

I don't think the Magnetic Fireball is even in the running, I bet even old tier like Prestor's or Tia's top it.

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Re: Ricket's Magnetic Fireball

Postby shinryu » Sat Jul 30, 2011 9:15 pm

Flidis wrote:
Tinderhoof wrote:
Flidis wrote:OK so stay away from it unless they do something crazy to UW. Thanks for the reply!

Perhaps you misunderstood about UW. As it is right now it isn't all that great before any nerfs. If you have 100% uptime on the boss its pretty decent, however it can still proc at bad times that won't make full use of its decent power. Any fight with high amounts of down time, target switches or swipe use do not favor UW because of how little the buff is used.



Sorry I'm just now reading this. Ok I'm still a little confused. I think I can grasp that UW is better for bosses where your mainly on the boss a lot. What I'm still not sure of is which is better overall.

Essentially, it boils down to (I think) whether you want take a achance with a theoretically high DPS trinket like UW (which again, theoretically is as good as 391 trinkets) on purely single target fights with only uptime on the boss, or basically that for ones with lots of movements, adds, etc that can sharply reduce UW's usefulness depending on RNG.

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