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On the use of bear-form abilities in a DPS rotation

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Re: On the use of bear-form abilities in a DPS rotation

Postby Stenhaldi » Sun Dec 23, 2012 6:33 pm

How many cat autoattacks are you losing per thrash, and how many bear autoattacks are you gaining? Should be 5 and 2 respectively according to my math.

(Actually that's a slight overestimate -- with under 6.1% unbuffed / 16.7% buffed haste there's a chance to only lose 2.5 cat autoattacks and gain 1 bear autoattack.)

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Re: On the use of bear-form abilities in a DPS rotation

Postby Leafkiller » Sun Dec 23, 2012 7:13 pm

It would probably help to see the dps breakdowns so we can see all the side effects. This is consistent with what I have seen before, once you actually sim a fight you see all the small things that are slightly impacted by the change to the rotation. As we understand those better we could find some additional optimizations.

On a separate but related note, I am very interested in what happens if we add bear thrash to an AoE rotation. I am going to post aggixx's AoE rotation here with a few lines added for bear Thrash.

I considered two places in the script for the bear code - at the top where it is right now and immediately after the final thrash_cat just before the 5 point SR clip. I also lowered the threshold for when to use Rake instead of swipe from <8 to <5 since we have less time available - but that is something that can be played with.

Note - you can set the number of enemies on the Globals tab under Options.

Spoiler: show
Code: Select all
actions.precombat=flask,type=spring_blossoms
actions.precombat+=/food,type=sea_mist_rice_noodles
actions.precombat+=/mark_of_the_wild,if=!aura.str_agi_int.up
actions.precombat+=/healing_touch,if=!buff.dream_of_cenarius_damage.up&talent.dream_of_cenarius.enabled
actions.precombat+=/cat_form
actions.precombat+=/savage_roar
actions.precombat+=/snapshot_stats
actions.precombat+=/virmens_bite_potion
actions.precombat+=/treants,if=talent.force_of_nature.enabled

actions=auto_attack
actions+=/bear_form,if=energy<30&!buff.tigers_fury.up&cooldown.tigers_fury.remains>4&!buff.berserk.up&$(rip_remains)>=9&dot.thrash_bear.remains<3.0
actions+=/maul,if=buff.bear_form.up
actions+=/thrash_bear,if=buff.bear_form.up&dot.thrash_bear.remains<2.0
actions+=/cat_form,if=buff.cat_form.down
actions+=/savage_roar,if=buff.savage_roar.remains<=1
actions+=/savage_roar,if=buff.savage_roar.remains<=3&combo_points>0
actions+=/use_item,name=eternal_blossom_grips,sync=tigers_fury
actions+=/tigers_fury,if=energy<=35&!buff.omen_of_clarity.react
actions+=/berserk,if=buff.tigers_fury.up
actions+=/virmens_bite_potion,if=buff.berserk.up
actions+=/thrash_cat,if=buff.tigers_fury.up&dot.thrash_cat.remains<9
actions+=/pool_resource,wait=0.1,for_next=1
actions+=/thrash_cat,if=dot.thrash_cat.remains<3
actions+=/savage_roar,if=buff.savage_roar.remains<9&combo_points>=5
actions+=/rip,if=combo_points>=5
actions+=/rake,cycle_targets=1,if=active_enemies<5&dot.rake.remains<3
actions+=/swipe_cat,if=buff.savage_roar.remains<=5
actions+=/swipe_cat,if=(buff.tigers_fury.up|buff.berserk.up)
actions+=/swipe_cat,if=cooldown.tigers_fury.remains<3
actions+=/swipe_cat,if=buff.omen_of_clarity.react
actions+=/swipe_cat,if=energy.time_to_max<=1

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Re: On the use of bear-form abilities in a DPS rotation

Postby Stenhaldi » Sun Dec 23, 2012 7:16 pm

And to be clear, the following is how shifting affects autoattacks, and is easy enough to verify in-game:

Shifting does not interrupt the swing timer. The swing timer is determined at the time that it starts (i.e. when the previous swing hit). Swing damage is determined at the time that it hits.

So for example, suppose you have no haste, so cat form has a 1-second swing timer and bear form a 2.5-second swing timer. Suppose you are autoattacking in cat form, and then shift to bear with 0.3 seconds left on the swing timer. Then 0.3 seconds after shifting to bear, you perform a bear swing. 2.8 seconds after shifting to bear, you perform a second bear swing. Now 3 seconds after shifting to bear, let's say you shift back to cat. You still have 2.3 seconds left on the swing timer from the last bear swing, so 2.3 seconds after shifting to cat, you perform the first cat swing.

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Re: On the use of bear-form abilities in a DPS rotation

Postby Kihrawr » Sun Dec 23, 2012 7:29 pm

Leafkiller wrote:It would probably help to see the dps breakdowns so we can see all the side effects. This is consistent with what I have seen before, once you actually sim a fight you see all the small things that are slightly impacted by the change to the rotation. As we understand those better we could find some additional optimizations.

On a separate but related note, I am very interested in what happens if we add bear thrash to an AoE rotation. I am going to post aggixx's AoE rotation here with a few lines added for bear Thrash.

I considered two places in the script for the bear code - at the top where it is right now and immediately after the final thrash_cat just before the 5 point SR clip. I also lowered the threshold for when to use Rake instead of swipe from <8 to <5 since we have less time available - but that is something that can be played with.


Yeah using it in AOE under the same conditions shows a solid DPS gain (20k DPS gain on 8 targets). If you shrink the # of targets below 8, though, you also need to stop rake cycling to keep the gain (at least for 7 and 6, I need to keep testing). I'm going to fix the Savage Roar issue though before posting real numbers, since it's pointless talking about DPS "gains" when the Thrash is being buffed by Savage Roar still.

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Re: On the use of bear-form abilities in a DPS rotation

Postby Kihrawr » Sun Dec 23, 2012 7:31 pm

Stenhaldi wrote:And to be clear, the following is how shifting affects autoattacks, and is easy enough to verify in-game:

Shifting does not interrupt the swing timer. The swing timer is determined at the time that it starts (i.e. when the previous swing hit). Swing damage is determined at the time that it hits.

So for example, suppose you have no haste, so cat form has a 1-second swing timer and bear form a 2.5-second swing timer. Suppose you are autoattacking in cat form, and then shift to bear with 0.3 seconds left on the swing timer. Then 0.3 seconds after shifting to bear, you perform a bear swing. 2.8 seconds after shifting to bear, you perform a second bear swing. Now 3 seconds after shifting to bear, let's say you shift back to cat. You still have 2.3 seconds left on the swing timer from the last bear swing, so 2.3 seconds after shifting to cat, you perform the first cat swing.


The code is clearly resetting the swing timer on a shift instead of continuing with the timer from the previous swing. I'll look into fixing that also.

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Re: On the use of bear-form abilities in a DPS rotation

Postby aggixx » Mon Dec 24, 2012 1:50 am

Kihrawr wrote:
Code: Select all
virtual bool ready()
{
    if (p()->buff.bear_form->check())
        return false;
    return druid_spell_t::ready();
}

I seem to be getting SimC crashes anytime I execute a shapeshift action with this change implemented.
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Re: On the use of bear-form abilities in a DPS rotation

Postby Kihrawr » Mon Dec 24, 2012 2:18 am

aggixx wrote:
Kihrawr wrote:
Code: Select all
virtual bool ready()
{
    if (p()->buff.bear_form->check())
        return false;
    return druid_spell_t::ready();
}

I seem to be getting SimC crashes anytime I execute a shapeshift action with this change implemented.


Yeah, I patched four spots to use spell.bear_form instead (the code that is trying to get effectN( 4 ). I can post a diff somewhere, but I've never contributed anything to SimulationCraft before, so am a noob about what to do. :)

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Re: On the use of bear-form abilities in a DPS rotation

Postby aggixx » Mon Dec 24, 2012 2:24 am

Yeah, a diff, or a patch especially, would be great. You could post a link here, or if you wanted you could drop into IRC and ask for commit access.

Edit: Got it figured out. Until the swing timer thing can get changed it's very important that you set use_off_gcd=1 on auto_attack so that it can begin the swing timer as soon as it's in bear form.
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Re: On the use of bear-form abilities in a DPS rotation

Postby aggixx » Mon Dec 24, 2012 8:44 am

Just committed a new revision that fixed a bunch of bugs that cropped up from this thread:
Code: Select all
Druid:
 - Fix: Thrash (Cat) now requires cat form, Mangle (Bear) now requires bear form, Maul now requires bear form, and Thrash (Bear) now requires bear form.
 - Fix: Bear, Cat, and Moonkin forms now properly check conditions that are passed to them.
 - Fix: Bear Form crit & haste multipliers now pull spell data from the correct source.
 - Fix: Bear Form crit & haste multipliers is now additive instead of multiplicative.
 - Fix: Savage Roar, Tiger's Fury, and Razor Claws now only apply to spells cast while Cat Form is active.


Would really like to mess around with some bear actions in the action list but I've spent so much time fixing these issues that I really should go to sleep. I can definitely tell you that after having fixed SR, TF, and mastery all applying to bear form damage it's a hell of a lot less impressive.

PS: Threshold for Bear Form line should be thrash.remains<4.5 and thrash has a 3 second tick interval so you'd always want the thrash line to be thrash.remains<3. I think putting the bear form line a more natural place in the list than all the way at the top might be able to net some DPS.

Also, I was talking to Leafkiller about this: Take everything related to the guardian module of SimC with a massive grain of salt. If you think all of that stuff works perfectly you are definitely massively delusional.
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Re: On the use of bear-form abilities in a DPS rotation

Postby Kihrawr » Mon Dec 24, 2012 12:31 pm

aggixx wrote:Just committed a new revision that fixed a bunch of bugs that cropped up from this thread:
Code: Select all
Druid:
 - Fix: Thrash (Cat) now requires cat form, Mangle (Bear) now requires bear form, Maul now requires bear form, and Thrash (Bear) now requires bear form.
 - Fix: Bear, Cat, and Moonkin forms now properly check conditions that are passed to them.
 - Fix: Bear Form crit & haste multipliers now pull spell data from the correct source.
 - Fix: Bear Form crit & haste multipliers is now additive instead of multiplicative.
 - Fix: Savage Roar, Tiger's Fury, and Razor Claws now only apply to spells cast while Cat Form is active.



This is the same set of changes I have in my local tree, but I did something different with Tiger's Fury. I made sure to remove the Tiger's Fury buff when you shift out of cat form, since the buff needs to be canceled. Otherwise it could still be up if you go from cat to bear and then back to cat again. Also, if you cancel the buff, it's not really necessary to patch Tiger's Fury to only apply to spells when Cat Form is active, since the buff is supposed to be canceled when you leave cat form anyway.

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Re: On the use of bear-form abilities in a DPS rotation

Postby Leafkiller » Mon Dec 24, 2012 12:34 pm

Bear form Thrash has a 2 second tick not 3 and lasts 16 seconds. I was surprised when I saw this on Wowhead...

http://www.wowhead.com/spell=77758

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Re: On the use of bear-form abilities in a DPS rotation

Postby aggixx » Mon Dec 24, 2012 6:25 pm

Kihrawr wrote:This is the same set of changes I have in my local tree, but I did something different with Tiger's Fury. I made sure to remove the Tiger's Fury buff when you shift out of cat form, since the buff needs to be canceled. Otherwise it could still be up if you go from cat to bear and then back to cat again. Also, if you cancel the buff, it's not really necessary to patch Tiger's Fury to only apply to spells when Cat Form is active, since the buff is supposed to be canceled when you leave cat form anyway.

I would've liked to do this but wasn't sure how to implement such a thing, so I figured ignoring the damage buff outside of cat form was a simpler approach. You really should see if you can get commit access if you're willing to help, the druid module could definitely use a little help in maintaining it (it's basically just me, and I know nothing about C++, and mainly Starfox but I think he's been busy lately).


@Leafkiller: Well, I'm surprised too. It was still a gain to increase it from <2.0 on the dot and <3.0 on the form to <3.0 and <4.5 respectively
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Re: On the use of bear-form abilities in a DPS rotation

Postby aggixx » Mon Dec 24, 2012 11:03 pm

This is the best I've been able to get it for now. I discovered that the "set rage to 10" portion of the bear form shapeshift was not implemented, so I've committed a change that fixes that (I wish I knew how to make it set rage to 0 when you exit bear form but the best I was able to get it was to set it to 0 on entry and then gain to 10.)

Spoiler: show
#!./simc

druid="Druid_Feral_T14H"
origin="unknown"
level=90
race=troll
spec=feral
role=attack
position=back
professions=engineering=600/inscription=600
talents=010102
glyphs=savagery

$(rip_remains)=(dot.rip.remains+(8-(dot.rip.ticks_added*2)))

actions.precombat=flask,type=spring_blossoms
actions.precombat+=/food,type=sea_mist_rice_noodles
actions.precombat+=/mark_of_the_wild,if=!aura.str_agi_int.up
actions.precombat+=/healing_touch,if=!buff.dream_of_cenarius_damage.up&talent.dream_of_cenarius.enabled
actions.precombat+=/cat_form
actions.precombat+=/savage_roar
actions.precombat+=/snapshot_stats
actions.precombat+=/virmens_bite_potion
actions.precombat+=/treants,if=talent.force_of_nature.enabled

actions=auto_attack,use_off_gcd=1
actions+=/skull_bash_cat
actions+=/use_item,name=stalkers_cord_of_eternal_autumn,use_off_gcd=1

actions+=/maul,use_off_gcd=1
actions+=/lacerate,if=dot.lacerate.ticking&dot.lacerate.remains<1.5&energy.time_to_max>=4.5
actions+=/thrash_bear,if=dot.thrash_bear.remains<2
actions+=/lacerate,if=dot.lacerate.remains<10&energy.time_to_max>=3


actions+=/cat_form,if=buff.cat_form.down
actions+=/berserking

actions+=/healing_touch,if=talent.dream_of_cenarius.enabled&buff.predatory_swiftness.up&buff.predatory_swiftness.remains<=1.5&buff.dream_of_cenarius_damage.down
actions+=/savage_roar,if=buff.savage_roar.down
actions+=/healing_touch,if=talent.dream_of_cenarius.enabled&buff.predatory_swiftness.up&combo_points>=4&buff.dream_of_cenarius_damage.stack<2
actions+=/healing_touch,if=talent.dream_of_cenarius.enabled&prev.natures_swiftness

actions+=/use_item,name=eternal_blossom_grips,sync=tigers_fury
actions+=/tigers_fury,if=energy<=35&!buff.omen_of_clarity.react
actions+=/berserk,if=buff.tigers_fury.up|(target.time_to_die<15&cooldown.tigers_fury.remains>6)
actions+=/natures_vigil,if=buff.berserk.up&talent.natures_vigil.enabled
actions+=/incarnation,if=buff.berserk.up&talent.incarnation.enabled

actions+=/ferocious_bite,if=combo_points>=1&dot.rip.ticking&dot.rip.remains<=2&target.health.pct<=25
actions+=/faerie_fire,if=debuff.weakened_armor.stack<3

actions+=/thrash_cat,if=target.time_to_die>=6&buff.omen_of_clarity.react&dot.thrash_cat.remains<3&buff.dream_of_cenarius_damage.down

actions+=/ferocious_bite,if=(target.time_to_die<=4&combo_points>=5)|(target.time_to_die<=1&combo_points>=3)

actions+=/natures_swiftness,if=enabled&talent.dream_of_cenarius.enabled&buff.dream_of_cenarius_damage.down&buff.predatory_swiftness.down&combo_points>=5&target.health.pct<=25
actions+=/virmens_bite_potion,if=(talent.dream_of_cenarius.enabled&combo_points>=5&target.health.pct<=25&buff.dream_of_cenarius_damage.up)|(!talent.dream_of_cenarius.enabled&buff.berserk.up&target.health.pct<=25)|target.time_to_die<=40
actions+=/rip,if=combo_points>=5&buff.virmens_bite_potion.up&(buff.dream_of_cenarius_damage.up|!talent.dream_of_cenarius.enabled)&dot.rip.multiplier<tick_multiplier&target.health.pct<=25&target.time_to_die>30
actions+=/rip,if=combo_points>=5&tick_multiplier%dot.rip.multiplier>1.14&target.health.pct<=25&target.time_to_die>30

actions+=/savage_roar,if=buff.savage_roar.remains<3&combo_points>0&buff.dream_of_cenarius_damage.down&target.health.pct<25

actions+=/pool_resource,wait=0.1,if=combo_points>=5&dot.rip.ticking&target.health.pct<=25&((energy<50&buff.berserk.down)|(energy<25&buff.berserk.remains>1))&talent.dream_of_cenarius.enabled
actions+=/ferocious_bite,if=combo_points>=5&dot.rip.ticking&target.health.pct<=25

actions+=/rip,if=combo_points>=5&target.time_to_die>=6&dot.rip.remains<2.0&buff.dream_of_cenarius_damage.up
actions+=/rip,if=combo_points>=5&target.time_to_die>=6&dot.rip.remains<6.0&buff.dream_of_cenarius_damage.up&dot.rip.multiplier<=tick_multiplier&target.health.pct>25

actions+=/natures_swiftness,if=enabled&talent.dream_of_cenarius.enabled&buff.dream_of_cenarius_damage.down&buff.predatory_swiftness.down&combo_points>=5&dot.rip.remains<3&(buff.berserk.up|dot.rip.remains+1.9<=cooldown.tigers_fury.remains)&target.health.pct>25
actions+=/rip,if=combo_points>=5&target.time_to_die>=6&dot.rip.remains<2.0&(buff.berserk.up|dot.rip.remains+1.9<=cooldown.tigers_fury.remains)

actions+=/savage_roar,if=buff.savage_roar.remains<3&combo_points>0&buff.savage_roar.remains+2>dot.rip.remains

actions+=/thrash_cat,if=target.time_to_die>=6&buff.omen_of_clarity.react&dot.thrash_cat.remains<3

actions+=/ravage,extend_rip=1,if=dot.rip.ticking&dot.rip.remains<=4
actions+=/shred,extend_rip=1,if=dot.rip.ticking&dot.rip.remains<=4&buff.king_of_the_jungle.down

actions+=/savage_roar,if=buff.savage_roar.remains<=6&combo_points>=5&buff.savage_roar.remains+2<=dot.rip.remains

actions+=/pool_resource,wait=0.1,if=talent.dream_of_cenarius.enabled&combo_points>=5&((energy<50&buff.berserk.down)|(energy<25&buff.berserk.remains>1))&buff.savage_roar.remains-6>=dot.rip.remains&dot.rip.remains>=4.5
actions+=/pool_resource,wait=0.1,if=talent.dream_of_cenarius.enabled&combo_points>=5&((energy<50&buff.berserk.down)|(energy<25&buff.berserk.remains>1))&buff.savage_roar.remains+6>=dot.rip.remains&dot.rip.remains>=6.5
actions+=/ferocious_bite,if=talent.dream_of_cenarius.enabled&combo_points>=5&buff.savage_roar.remains-6>=dot.rip.remains&dot.rip.remains>=4
actions+=/ferocious_bite,if=talent.dream_of_cenarius.enabled&combo_points>=5&buff.savage_roar.remains+6>=dot.rip.remains&dot.rip.remains>=6
actions+=/pool_resource,wait=0.1,if=talent.dream_of_cenarius.enabled&combo_points>=5&((energy<50&buff.berserk.down)|(energy<25&buff.berserk.remains>1))&dot.rip.remains>=10.5
actions+=/ferocious_bite,if=talent.dream_of_cenarius.enabled&combo_points>=5&dot.rip.remains>=10

actions+=/ferocious_bite,if=combo_points>=5&(dot.rip.remains>10|(dot.rip.remains>6&buff.berserk.up))&dot.rip.ticking

actions+=/rake,if=target.time_to_die-dot.rake.remains>3&dot.rake.remains<6.0&buff.dream_of_cenarius_damage.up&dot.rake.multiplier<=tick_multiplier
actions+=/rake,if=target.time_to_die-dot.rake.remains>3&tick_multiplier%dot.rake.multiplier>1.12
actions+=/rake,if=target.time_to_die-dot.rake.remains>3&dot.rake.remains<3.0&(buff.berserk.up|(cooldown.tigers_fury.remains+0.8)>=dot.rake.remains|energy>60)

actions+=/ravage,if=buff.omen_of_clarity.react
actions+=/shred,if=buff.omen_of_clarity.react&buff.king_of_the_jungle.down
actions+=/ravage,if=((combo_points<5&dot.rip.remains<3.0)|(combo_points=0&buff.savage_roar.remains<2))
actions+=/shred,if=((combo_points<5&dot.rip.remains<3.0)|(combo_points=0&buff.savage_roar.remains<2))&buff.king_of_the_jungle.down
actions+=/thrash_cat,if=target.time_to_die>=15&dot.thrash_cat.remains<3&buff.berserk.up&talent.soul_of_the_forest.enabled&talent.dream_of_cenarius.enabled
actions+=/ravage,if=talent.dream_of_cenarius.enabled&buff.predatory_swiftness.remains>1&!(energy+(energy.regen*(buff.predatory_swiftness.remains-1))<(4-combo_points)*20)
actions+=/ravage,if=!talent.dream_of_cenarius.enabled&talent.soul_of_the_forest.enabled&combo_points<5&(energy+(energy.regen*(4-combo_points))>(5-combo_points)*20)
actions+=/ravage,if=target.time_to_die<=8.5
actions+=/shred,if=talent.dream_of_cenarius.enabled&buff.predatory_swiftness.remains>1&!(energy+(energy.regen*(buff.predatory_swiftness.remains-1))<(4-combo_points)*20)&buff.king_of_the_jungle.down
actions+=/shred,if=!talent.dream_of_cenarius.enabled&talent.soul_of_the_forest.enabled&combo_points<5&(energy+(energy.regen*(4-combo_points))>(5-combo_points)*20)&buff.king_of_the_jungle.down
actions+=/shred,if=target.time_to_die<=8.5&buff.king_of_the_jungle.down
actions+=/thrash_cat,if=target.time_to_die>=6&combo_points>=5&dot.thrash_cat.remains<6&(buff.tigers_fury.up|buff.berserk.up|buff.natures_vigil.up)
actions+=/thrash_cat,if=target.time_to_die>=6&combo_points>=5&dot.thrash_cat.remains<6&cooldown.tigers_fury.remains<=3.0
actions+=/thrash_cat,if=target.time_to_die>=6&combo_points>=5&dot.thrash_cat.remains<6&energy.time_to_max<=1.0
actions+=/ravage,if=(buff.tigers_fury.up|buff.berserk.up|buff.natures_vigil.up)
actions+=/ravage,if=cooldown.tigers_fury.remains<=3.0
actions+=/ravage,if=energy.time_to_max<=1.0
actions+=/shred,if=(buff.tigers_fury.up|buff.berserk.up|buff.natures_vigil.up)&buff.king_of_the_jungle.down
actions+=/shred,if=cooldown.tigers_fury.remains<=3.0&buff.king_of_the_jungle.down
actions+=/shred,if=energy.time_to_max<=1.0&buff.king_of_the_jungle.down
actions+=/treants,if=talent.force_of_nature.enabled
actions+=/bear_form,if=energy.time_to_max>=6&!buff.tigers_fury.up&!buff.berserk.up&cooldown.tigers_fury.remains>4&$(rip_remains)>=7&(buff.lacerate.stack<3|dot.lacerate.remains<3)
actions+=/natures_swiftness,if=enabled&buff.natures_vigil.up&!buff.berserk.up&!buff.predatory_swiftness.up
actions+=/healing_touch,if=buff.natures_vigil.up&(buff.predatory_swiftness.up|buff.natures_swiftness.up)&!buff.berserk.up

head=eternal_blossom_headpiece,id=86925,gems=agile_primal_80agi_160hit_180agi,reforge=exp_crit
neck=choker_of_the_unleashed_storm,id=86953
shoulders=eternal_blossom_spaulders,id=86927,gems=80agi_160hit_60agi,enchant=520agi_100crit,reforge=haste_mastery
back=legbreaker_greatcloak,id=86963,enchant=180hit,reforge=crit_exp
chest=eternal_blossom_raiment,id=86923,gems=80agi_160mastery_80agi_160mastery_120mastery,enchant=80all
wrists=bracers_of_unseen_strikes,id=86954,enchant=180agi,reforge=haste_mastery
hands=eternal_blossom_grips,id=86924,enchant=170mastery,reforge=hit_mastery,addon=synapse_springs_mark_ii
waist=stalkers_cord_of_eternal_autumn,id=87180,gems=160agi_160agi,reforge=crit_mastery,addon=frag_belt
legs=legguards_of_failing_purification,id=90504,gems=160agi_80agi_160hit_120agi,enchant=285agi_165crit,reforge=hit_exp
feet=boots_of_the_still_breath,id=86943,gems=160agi,enchant=140mastery,reforge=haste_mastery
finger1=regails_band_of_the_endless,id=90503,reforge=haste_mastery
finger2=painful_thorned_ring,id=86974,reforge=exp_crit
trinket1=terror_in_the_mists,id=87167
trinket2=bottle_of_infinite_stars,id=87057
main_hand=gaorei_staff_of_the_legendary_protector,id=87156,gems=500agi,enchant=dancing_steel,reforge=exp_hit,addon=7932sp

# Gear Summary
# gear_strength=80
# gear_agility=17296
# gear_stamina=20502
# gear_intellect=80
# gear_spirit=80
# gear_expertise_rating=2537
# gear_hit_rating=2545
# gear_crit_rating=5124
# gear_haste_rating=1351
# gear_mastery_rating=8406
# gear_armor=18644
# meta_gem=agile_primal
# tier14_2pc_melee=1
# tier14_4pc_melee=1
# hands=eternal_blossom_grips,heroic=1,addon=synapse_springs_mark_ii
# main_hand=gaorei_staff_of_the_legendary_protector,heroic=1,weapon=staff_3.30speed_13314min_19972max,enchant=dancing_steel
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Re: On the use of bear-form abilities in a DPS rotation

Postby Leafkiller » Tue Dec 25, 2012 2:20 am

What is the impact on dps?

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Re: On the use of bear-form abilities in a DPS rotation

Postby aggixx » Tue Dec 25, 2012 2:30 am

Woops, forgot to do a comparison! >.<

I've got my normal profile at 122696 DPS vs the bear profile at 122543 DPS.
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Re: On the use of bear-form abilities in a DPS rotation

Postby Leafkiller » Tue Dec 25, 2012 4:36 am

Now that you have the abilities working better in simc, how about checking out the AoE rotation?

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Re: On the use of bear-form abilities in a DPS rotation

Postby aggixx » Wed Dec 26, 2012 1:35 am

Was working on optimizing an action list for AoE, and I found out that shapeshifting is a 1 second GCD in the sim, woops! At the moment I'm seeing bear form as a 17.5k DPS gain on 8 targets over not using it at all, although I think it might go up once I can figure out how to make it a 1.5 sec GCD.

Edit: Woah, just had a massive breakthrough. I realized I didn't have use_off_gcd=1 set on autoattack, so I did that and the profile gained a whopping 15k DPS! Why the hell would it do that? Well I looked through a debug log and swipe_bear still costs 15 rage in the sim, since I had maul on the top of the priority list it was restricing swipe from being cast very often.

Edit 2: And now I can't figure out how to replicate those numbers 0.o
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Re: On the use of bear-form abilities in a DPS rotation

Postby Stenhaldi » Wed Dec 26, 2012 3:06 am

aggixx wrote:Well I looked through a debug log and swipe_bear still costs 15 rage in the sim,

That's actually correct for feral spec. Swipe (bear) is free for guardian, but for non-guardian it still costs 15 rage.

Also see the simulationcraft thread -- the druid module is miscalculating thrash (bear) (and thrash (cat)) damage.

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Re: On the use of bear-form abilities in a DPS rotation

Postby aggixx » Wed Dec 26, 2012 3:10 am

Ah, good catch then. I'll take a look.
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Re: On the use of bear-form abilities in a DPS rotation

Postby aggixx » Wed Dec 26, 2012 4:52 am

Crosspost from the SimC thread:
aggixx wrote:Apparently with the removal of SCHOOL_BLEED, any physical damage that is periodic is a bleed and anything that is not is not a bleed. Rake is adjusted by having a "tick_zero" so that the DoT always instantly ticks once each time it is applied instead of having any direct damage, Thrash is a little more complicated because the coefficient for the direct damage vs tick damage is different.

I also realized that both versions of Thrash were set to DOT_CLIP instead of DOT_REFRESH so the remaining duration was never rolling over.

All of these things combined, with the tick_zero enabled for Thrash and tick zero doing the same damage as a normal tick (so it's doing less than it should) the bear thrash profile went from 258k to 317k DPS, and the non-bear profile went from 235k to 280k DPS. Now that Thrash damage is so different there's probably some optimizing to be done, though.
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Re: On the use of bear-form abilities in a DPS rotation

Postby aggixx » Wed Dec 26, 2012 6:50 am

Alright, I'm pretty satisfied with what I've gotten my AoE script to, more or less out of ideas for gains. I found that swipe_bear anything I tried is a loss after the thrash changes because it hits like a wet noodle, and I reduced the energy.time_to_max threshold a bit to trade a small amount of energy capping for increased thrash_bear uptime.

Report Here It is a ~41.5k DPS / ~14.75% DPS gain to use Bear Thrash.

Spoiler: show
#!./simc

druid="aoe"
origin="unknown"
level=90
race=troll
spec=feral
role=attack
position=back
professions=engineering=600/inscription=600
talents=010101
glyphs=savagery

actions.precombat=flask,type=spring_blossoms
actions.precombat+=/food,type=sea_mist_rice_noodles
actions.precombat+=/mark_of_the_wild,if=!aura.str_agi_int.up
actions.precombat+=/healing_touch,if=!buff.dream_of_cenarius_damage.up&talent.dream_of_cenarius.enabled
actions.precombat+=/cat_form
actions.precombat+=/savage_roar
actions.precombat+=/snapshot_stats
actions.precombat+=/virmens_bite_potion
actions.precombat+=/treants,if=talent.force_of_nature.enabled

actions=auto_attack,use_off_gcd=1
actions+=/maul,use_off_gcd=1
actions+=/thrash_bear,if=dot.thrash_bear.remains<2
actions+=/cat_form

actions+=/savage_roar,if=buff.savage_roar.remains<=1
actions+=/savage_roar,if=buff.savage_roar.remains<=3&combo_points>0
actions+=/use_item,name=eternal_blossom_grips,sync=tigers_fury
actions+=/tigers_fury,if=energy<=35&!buff.omen_of_clarity.react
actions+=/berserk,if=buff.tigers_fury.up
actions+=/virmens_bite_potion,if=buff.berserk.up
actions+=/bear_form,if=energy.time_to_max>=3.5&!buff.berserk.up&dot.thrash_bear.remains<3.5&dot.thrash_cat.remains>3
actions+=/thrash_cat,if=buff.tigers_fury.up&dot.thrash_cat.remains<9
actions+=/pool_resource,wait=0.1,if=(energy+(energy.regen*dot.thrash_cat.remains)<50)|(energy+(energy.regen*dot.thrash_cat.remains)<25&buff.berserk.up)
actions+=/thrash_cat,if=dot.thrash_cat.remains<3
actions+=/savage_roar,if=buff.savage_roar.remains<9&combo_points>=5
actions+=/rip,if=combo_points>=5
actions+=/rake,cycle_targets=1,if=active_enemies<8&dot.rake.remains<3
actions+=/swipe_cat,if=buff.savage_roar.remains<=5
actions+=/swipe_cat,if=(buff.tigers_fury.up|buff.berserk.up)
actions+=/swipe_cat,if=cooldown.tigers_fury.remains<3
actions+=/swipe_cat,if=buff.omen_of_clarity.react
actions+=/swipe_cat,if=energy.time_to_max<=1

head=eternal_blossom_headpiece,id=86925,gems=agile_primal_80agi_160hit_180agi,reforge=exp_crit
neck=choker_of_the_unleashed_storm,id=86953
shoulders=eternal_blossom_spaulders,id=86927,gems=80agi_160hit_60agi,enchant=520agi_100crit,reforge=haste_mastery
back=legbreaker_greatcloak,id=86963,enchant=180hit,reforge=crit_exp
chest=eternal_blossom_raiment,id=86923,gems=80agi_160mastery_80agi_160mastery_120mastery,enchant=80all
wrists=bracers_of_unseen_strikes,id=86954,enchant=180agi,reforge=haste_mastery
hands=eternal_blossom_grips,id=86924,enchant=170mastery,addon=synapse_springs_mark_ii,reforge=hit_mastery
waist=stalkers_cord_of_eternal_autumn,id=87180,gems=160agi_160agi,reforge=crit_mastery
legs=legguards_of_failing_purification,id=90504,gems=160agi_80agi_160hit_120agi,enchant=285agi_165crit,reforge=hit_exp
feet=boots_of_the_still_breath,id=86943,gems=160agi,enchant=140mastery,reforge=haste_mastery
finger1=regails_band_of_the_endless,id=90503,reforge=haste_mastery
finger2=painful_thorned_ring,id=86974,reforge=exp_crit
trinket1=terror_in_the_mists,id=87167
trinket2=bottle_of_infinite_stars,id=87057
main_hand=gaorei_staff_of_the_legendary_protector,id=87156,gems=500agi,enchant=dancing_steel,reforge=exp_hit

# Gear Summary
# gear_strength=80
# gear_agility=17296
# gear_stamina=20502
# gear_intellect=80
# gear_spirit=80
# gear_expertise_rating=2537
# gear_hit_rating=2545
# gear_crit_rating=5124
# gear_haste_rating=1351
# gear_mastery_rating=8406
# gear_armor=18644
# meta_gem=agile_primal
# tier14_2pc_melee=1
# tier14_4pc_melee=1
# hands=eternal_blossom_grips,heroic=1,addon=synapse_springs_mark_ii
# main_hand=gaorei_staff_of_the_legendary_protector,heroic=1,weapon=staff_3.30speed_13314min_19972max,enchant=dancing_steel


PS: Glyph of Maul doesn't work in the sim but that would be another 575 DPS or so.
PPS: Let the bearweaving begin!
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Re: On the use of bear-form abilities in a DPS rotation

Postby Leafkiller » Wed Dec 26, 2012 1:39 pm

How many targets did you test with?

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Re: On the use of bear-form abilities in a DPS rotation

Postby aggixx » Wed Dec 26, 2012 6:21 pm

That was with 8 targets, so no rake just swipe.
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Re: On the use of bear-form abilities in a DPS rotation

Postby raffy » Wed Dec 26, 2012 8:12 pm

@aggix, when are you stopping combat?

We can use Dash to shift to cat w/o GCD and Ursol to shift Bear w/o GCD, which would be a good idea when potion is active.

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Re: On the use of bear-form abilities in a DPS rotation

Postby aggixx » Wed Dec 26, 2012 8:15 pm

And you could also growl if one of the adds is benign enough, but I'm not sure any of those things are implemented in the sim and it would overcomplicate the script a lot.

And by your first question I assume you mean how long is the fight? It's always at the top of the report, it's a standard 7.5 minute +/- 20% duration.
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