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Edgy/Raffy's Catus Thread (Not 6.0 Ready Yet)

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Re: Edgy/Raffy's Official Catus Thread

Postby raffy » Thu May 23, 2013 7:30 pm

@feychan
Haha @ System32. I will fix this in v12. That's probably some weird Java default.

The simc item data (sc_item_data.inc) doesn't contain information for any of the ilvl 600 cloaks so I can't scale the item. Possibly, someone can go bug the developers on IRC and see if they can update their DBC stuff to extract data for the cloaks.

There is an error being generated but it's hidden from the user (that no item stat allocation data is available.)

If you're desperate, you can just hack the JSON file in the Cache folder corresponding to the cloak ("Item_98148.json" inside "us.battle.net").

Change the following:
{"stat":49,"amount":918},{"stat":32,"amount":918},{"stat":36,"amount":918}
To:
{"stat":49,"amount":991},{"stat":32,"amount":991},{"stat":36,"amount":991}

Note: this will break importing anyone else having the cloak that isn't 608 ilvl. Also, "Compare to Armory" will show stamina/agility differences, because those 3 stats above just correspond to the secondaries.

Edit: if I saw the exact in-game stats for 604 and 608, I could probably figure out the item stat allocation data myself. I guess your profile gives me 608, anyone got a 604 cloak equipped?
Last edited by raffy on Thu May 23, 2013 7:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Edgy/Raffy's Official Catus Thread

Postby Hinalover » Thu May 23, 2013 7:36 pm

Feychan wrote:Found the Cache @ C:\Windows\System32 on my Win 7 64bit system. Well.. that was annoying ^^
Deleting the cache did eliminate the error, but now I have another one with my legendary cloak. The values on the armory (displayed) seem to be accurate though.


I would suggest; at least to be on the safe side; to add both of the agi cloaks (both the dps and the tank one). DPS is 98148, and the tank one is 98335

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Re: Edgy/Raffy's Official Catus Thread

Postby scorpio0920 » Thu May 23, 2013 8:47 pm

@raffy

How do you get the formula for the stats scaling?

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Re: Edgy/Raffy's Official Catus Thread

Postby raffy » Thu May 23, 2013 10:12 pm

scorpio0920 wrote:@raffy

How do you get the formula for the stats scaling?

It's a huge pain in the ass: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1968#p11765
I'm only able to do it because the SimulationCraft project generates a file with a lot of the internal game data. Simc and Catus are the only projects I know that can scale items properly.

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Re: Edgy/Raffy's Official Catus Thread

Postby scorpio0920 » Thu May 23, 2013 10:36 pm

raffy wrote:
scorpio0920 wrote:@raffy

How do you get the formula for the stats scaling?

It's a huge pain in the ass: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1968#p11765
I'm only able to do it because the SimulationCraft project generates a file with a lot of the internal game data. Simc and Catus are the only projects I know that can scale items properly.


Big thanks.

I tried to update ReforgeLite for Asia version, according to the original formula can be completed spTABLE, but After Patch 5.3, the original formula seems to no longer apply, so I asked you how to get scaling.

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Re: Edgy/Raffy's Official Catus Thread

Postby raffy » Fri May 24, 2013 2:54 am

sc_item_data.inc was updated with the ilvl 600 cloaks. I recommend deleting the corresponding file from your Cache folder (inside the dropbox subdirectory). If you modified your cloak JSON (from above), delete that file to (in us.battle.net subdirectory).

@feychan: do the above, your cloak should be fixed.

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Re: Edgy/Raffy's Official Catus Thread

Postby aggixx » Fri May 24, 2013 4:02 am

Was trying to compare some profiles for a friend without a rune and had a hell of a time trying to get the reforging to do anything remotely useful. Could you explain how the non-rune reforge interface is supposed to work? Because either it's bugged or I'm seriously missing something.

To be more specific, everything I tried either had hit/exp ignoring caps and just going as high as possible, or the reforging would never progress, or it would give me an error saying that that boundary wasn't obtainable.
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Re: Edgy/Raffy's Official Catus Thread

Postby raffy » Fri May 24, 2013 4:48 am

I haven't upgraded the traditional reforger with all the knowledge/ideas I've gained from making the 1:1:1 version, but I think it's still working but as usual I have 0 documentation for this stuff.

When I do a Max(Mastery) reforge, I set it up like:
Hit: Lower=2550 (rest blank)
Exp: Lower=2550 (rest blank)
Mastery: Weight=10 (rest blank)
Haste: Weight=9 (rest blank)
Crit: Weight=8 (rest blank)

I'd probably first try it with Prevent checked for Mastery (to get really quick results).
If that sucks, I'd uncheck Prevent.

For this example, it's trying to maximize the objective: Mastery*10+Haste*9+Crit*8
Subject to the constraints: Hit>=2550 and Exp>=2550
Prevent will avoid considering reforges that reforge out of that stat.

It will find the best possible answer.

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Re: Edgy/Raffy's Official Catus Thread

Postby Helistar » Fri May 24, 2013 5:07 am

There's a bug in the rune reforging, in the sense that it tries to get mastery/crit/haste to be as close as possible, even when this results in a suboptimal reforge. Let me explain. Consider the following scenario:

5200 crit
5000 haste
5001 mastery
hit/exp capped or near-capped

one item left to reforge, which contains haste and crit, with a 200 rating reforge. Catus will reforge crit to expertise in order to keep mastery close to crit/haste, even if it's counter-productive: in both cases the rune will give me the same proc, and I lose mastery in the process.
You can try with my character (as it's now, no guarantees on later :)): http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/d ... tar/simple , Catus proposes to reforge my boots Crit->Expertise instead of Crit->Mastery.

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Re: Edgy/Raffy's Official Catus Thread

Postby Hinalover » Fri May 24, 2013 5:10 am

raffy wrote:I haven't upgraded the traditional reforger with all the knowledge/ideas I've gained from making the 1:1:1 version, but I think it's still working but as usual I have 0 documentation for this stuff.

When I do a Max(Mastery) reforge, I set it up like:
Hit: Lower=2550 (rest blank)
Exp: Lower=2550 (rest blank)
Mastery: Weight=10 (rest blank)
Haste: Weight=9 (rest blank)
Crit: Weight=8 (rest blank)

I'd probably first try it with Prevent checked for Mastery (to get really quick results).
If that sucks, I'd uncheck Prevent.

For this example, it's trying to maximize the objective: Mastery*10+Haste*9+Crit*8
Subject to the constraints: Hit>=2550 and Exp>=2550
Prevent will avoid considering reforges that reforge out of that stat.

It will find the best possible answer.


If you are setting up something similarly for Zephyrus, just as an FYI, Monks go haste to somewhere between 6800 and 9500 haste rating(depending on how confortable they are; though SimC says to go to 9500) > Crit > Mastery. But with the rune Mastery becomes better due to the snapshoting of our Mastery ability.

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Re: Edgy/Raffy's Official Catus Thread

Postby raffy » Fri May 24, 2013 6:31 am

Helistar wrote:There's a bug in the rune reforging, in the sense that it tries to get mastery/crit/haste to be as close as possible, even when this results in a suboptimal reforge. Let me explain. Consider the following scenario:

5200 crit
5000 haste
5001 mastery
hit/exp capped or near-capped

one item left to reforge, which contains haste and crit, with a 200 rating reforge. Catus will reforge crit to expertise in order to keep mastery close to crit/haste, even if it's counter-productive: in both cases the rune will give me the same proc, and I lose mastery in the process.
You can try with my character (as it's now, no guarantees on later :)): http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/d ... tar/simple , Catus proposes to reforge my boots Crit->Expertise instead of Crit->Mastery.
Thanks for the report but I'm not sure I understand your example.

The 1:1:1 reforger is only trying to maximize the RuneScore, which is M+2*(H+C), while maintaining M>Max(H+Hgap,C+Cgap) aka "mastery is highest", while also minimizing the distance from the Hit/Exp targets.

The only reason it would reforge to Exp, is to satisfy your Hit/Exp criteria. It has no concept of stat balance.

For your gear (since the v11 bonus breaker is too strict, see previous comments about this), the best it can do is 2702 expertise if you maintain the 2550 Hit/Exp minimums. (Note: I had to raise the search range to ~200 to find this solution.)

Even with the fixed bonus breaker in v12, the v11 reforge is the best possible solution while maintaining at least 2550 Hit/Exp.

Even if I move your JC gems to prismatic slots, the Catus v11 solution is still the best.

I haven't found any examples where it says "no Hit/Exp" solutions exist, and there actually is one.

If you want to go under the Hit or Exp cap, that's fine with me, but the reforger will not automatically do this. You need to specify that you want "Near" 2550, not "At Least" 2550.

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Re: Edgy/Raffy's Official Catus Thread

Postby Tigercrane » Fri May 24, 2013 6:32 am

On attempting to load my armory into Zephyrus:

Unable to load item (95346): java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: Unknown key: crit rating

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Re: Edgy/Raffy's Official Catus Thread

Postby raffy » Fri May 24, 2013 6:35 am

Tigercrane wrote:On attempting to load my armory into Zephyrus:

Unable to load item (95346): java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: Unknown key: crit rating

Blizzard bug, solution here:
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=4574&p=17046#p17057

If your Cache directory doesn't exist inside your Catus/Zephyrus directory, you need to find it, by searching for a file named "sc_item_data.inc" or "Suffix.txt".
Someone found theirs inside System32, lol: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=4574&p=17046#p17107
(I'll be fixing this in v12)

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Re: Edgy/Raffy's Official Catus Thread

Postby raffy » Fri May 24, 2013 6:40 am

Hinalover wrote:If you are setting up something similarly for Zephyrus, just as an FYI, Monks go haste to somewhere between 6800 and 9500 haste rating(depending on how confortable they are; though SimC says to go to 9500) > Crit > Mastery. But with the rune Mastery becomes better due to the snapshoting of our Mastery ability.

The reforger described above is just a typical reforger that uses weights:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/298 ... eforge.png
The only difference being that the Catus one is exhaustive, rather than random.

There are no hard-coded settings so it works for whatever. This kind of reforging is very inefficient at producing good 1:1:1 solutions without a lot of trial and error. Initially, the Catus 1:1:1 reforger was built on top this reforging method, but it sucked, was slow, and found shitty answers. But it's great for maximizing a stat.

Is this something Zephyrus should have?

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Re: Edgy/Raffy's Official Catus Thread

Postby trunkmonky » Fri May 24, 2013 7:30 am

Not getting the random enchant from my new weapon. Here's profile. http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/k ... y/advanced

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Re: Edgy/Raffy's Official Catus Thread

Postby Helistar » Fri May 24, 2013 9:27 am

raffy wrote:If you want to go under the Hit or Exp cap, that's fine with me, but the reforger will not automatically do this. You need to specify that you want "Near" 2550, not "At Least" 2550.


Ahhhhh, now I understand. But then it's the interface which is misleading..... the "Range" parameter is just beside the hit/exp conditions, so I assumed that it related to those, i.e. with a 200 range, you can get -200 below exp cap (= "at least 2550 exp, with a range of 200").
So it's "near" which does what I want, BTW I can find a solution with a range of 20 and an even bigger mastery proc.

Thanks for the explanation :)

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Re: Edgy/Raffy's Official Catus Thread

Postby Alaron » Fri May 24, 2013 10:44 am

Raff,

Noticed a bug in the Distribution when the Weak Armor debuff is not checked, only melees.

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Re: Edgy/Raffy's Official Catus Thread

Postby Hinalover » Fri May 24, 2013 12:46 pm

raffy wrote:
Hinalover wrote:If you are setting up something similarly for Zephyrus, just as an FYI, Monks go haste to somewhere between 6800 and 9500 haste rating(depending on how confortable they are; though SimC says to go to 9500) > Crit > Mastery. But with the rune Mastery becomes better due to the snapshoting of our Mastery ability.

The reforger described above is just a typical reforger that uses weights:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/298 ... eforge.png
The only difference being that the Catus one is exhaustive, rather than random.

There are no hard-coded settings so it works for whatever. This kind of reforging is very inefficient at producing good 1:1:1 solutions without a lot of trial and error. Initially, the Catus 1:1:1 reforger was built on top this reforging method, but it sucked, was slow, and found shitty answers. But it's great for maximizing a stat.

Is this something Zephyrus should have?


Probably not at this point. Just wasn't sure what your stance was for future features in Zephyrus.

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Re: Edgy/Raffy's Official Catus Thread

Postby Feychan » Fri May 24, 2013 1:02 pm

Just wanting to give you the feedback that modifying the file did work (I'm finally optimized! Yay!) and the new "version" does also work well. Thanks a lot raffy ;)

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Re: Edgy/Raffy's Official Catus Thread

Postby raffy » Fri May 24, 2013 1:42 pm

trunkmonky wrote:Not getting the random enchant from my new weapon. Here's profile. http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/k ... y/advanced
Find "Suffix.txt" in your Cache folder and delete it. (Check previous comments in this thread if you can't find your Cache folder, or just search for "Suffix.txt".)

In v12, I can (if this problem ever happens again), I can remotely invalidate everyones "Suffix.txt" or "sc_item_data.inc" file.

Alaron wrote:Raff,

Noticed a bug in the Distribution when the Weak Armor debuff is not checked, only melees.
Wow, that's ridiculous, should be fixed in v12. In general, the simulator still needs a lot more support from the UI. (It's still using 30% SR too.)

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Re: Edgy/Raffy's Official Catus Thread

Postby trunkmonky » Fri May 24, 2013 2:17 pm

raffy wrote:
trunkmonky wrote:Not getting the random enchant from my new weapon. Here's profile. http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/k ... y/advanced
Find "Suffix.txt" in your Cache folder and delete it. (Check previous comments in this thread if you can't find your Cache folder, or just search for "Suffix.txt".)

In v12, I can (if this problem ever happens again), I can remotely invalidate everyones "Suffix.txt" or "sc_item_data.inc" file.


Tried and it hasn't worked. Maybe it's because I upgraded it to 524?
Also, I'm using Zephyrus and not Catus if that makes a difference.

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Re: Edgy/Raffy's Official Catus Thread

Postby raffy » Fri May 24, 2013 2:30 pm

trunkmonky wrote:
raffy wrote:
trunkmonky wrote:Not getting the random enchant from my new weapon. Here's profile. http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/k ... y/advanced
Find "Suffix.txt" in your Cache folder and delete it. (Check previous comments in this thread if you can't find your Cache folder, or just search for "Suffix.txt".)

In v12, I can (if this problem ever happens again), I can remotely invalidate everyones "Suffix.txt" or "sc_item_data.inc" file.


Tried and it hasn't worked. Maybe it's because I upgraded it to 524?
Also, I'm using Zephyrus and not Catus if that makes a difference.
Are you getting an error? Or is the reforging wrong? I'm not seeing this using v11.

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Re: Edgy/Raffy's Official Catus Thread

Postby trunkmonky » Fri May 24, 2013 2:39 pm

raffy wrote:Are you getting an error? Or is the reforging wrong? I'm not seeing this using v11.


No error, it's just not seeing the suffix at all. Weapon stats are good except for the "of the Galeburst" part.

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Re: Edgy/Raffy's Official Catus Thread

Postby raffy » Fri May 24, 2013 3:21 pm

Confirm for me that Suffix.txt is being updated.

#1:
1. Quit Zephyrus
2. Delete Suffix.txt
3. Launch Zephyrus
4. You should now have a new Suffix.txt

#2:
1. Open Suffix.txt (it might have the wrong line endings for your operating system)
2. Confirm that it contains: "585: 353,354,355,356,357 # immaculate - agi"

#3
When you import Trunkmonky into Zephyrus, in the CompactGear code (the textbox with all the gear ids), do you see:
"98260 /354 +8 "Dancing Steel" # Main Hand: [524] Immaculate Pandaren Spear"
"/354" = is my notation for suffix id (354 being galeburst)


Edit: dang you have a lot of hit/exp
Spoiler: show
Code: Select all
Hit: 2612 / Exp: 2728 /Mastery: 5553 / Haste: 5552 / Crit: 5552

Head : HasteRating -> CritRating
Shoulders : ExpertiseRating -> CritRating
Back : ExpertiseRating -> MasteryRating
Chest : HitRating -> MasteryRating
Feet : HitRating -> CritRating
Wrists : HitRating -> CritRating
Hands : ExpertiseRating -> MasteryRating
Ring2 : CritRating -> HasteRating
Trinket2 : HitRating -> MasteryRating
MainHand : HitRating -> CritRating

Gear: 0 differences

Reforges (109g 40s 58c): 6 differences
               Neck: Critical Strike > Expertise              => None
              Chest: Hit > Haste                              => Hit > Mastery
              Waist: Mastery > Haste                          => None
               Legs: Haste > Expertise                        => None
              Hands: None                                     => Expertise > Mastery
          Main Hand: None                                     => Hit > Critical Strike

Enchants: 1 difference
              Hands: Enchant Gloves - Greater Haste           => Enchant Gloves - Superior Mastery

Sockets: 4 differences
     Shoulder/Bonus: +60 Agility                              => None
        Chest/Bonus: +120 Agility                             => None
        Waist/Bonus: +60 Crit                                 => None
        Hands/Bonus: +60 Agility                              => None

Gems: 7 differences
         Head/Gem#2: Lightning Wild Jade                      => Smooth Sun's Radiance
     Shoulder/Gem#1: Sensei's Wild Jade                       => Quick Sun's Radiance
        Chest/Gem#1: Deadly Vermilion Onyx                    => Quick Sun's Radiance
        Chest/Gem#2: Sensei's Wild Jade                       => Quick Sun's Radiance
        Waist/Gem#1: Deft Vermilion Onyx                      => Quick Sun's Radiance
         Legs/Gem#2: Sensei's Wild Jade                       => Forceful Wild Jade
        Hands/Gem#1: Deft Vermilion Onyx                      => Fractured Sun's Radiance

Stats: 7 differences
            Agility: +480 Agi                                 => -480 Agi
    Critical Strike: -709 Crit                                => +709 Crit
          Expertise: +805 Expertise                           => -805 Expertise
              Haste: -710 Haste                               => +710 Haste
                Hit: +1063 Hit                                => -1063 Hit
            Mastery: -709 Mastery                             => +709 Mastery
            Stamina: -120 Stam                                => +120 Stam

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Re: Edgy/Raffy's Official Catus Thread

Postby Stenhaldi » Fri May 24, 2013 7:10 pm

raffy wrote:
scorpio0920 wrote:@raffy

How do you get the formula for the stats scaling?

It's a huge pain in the ass: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1968#p11765
I'm only able to do it because the SimulationCraft project generates a file with a lot of the internal game data. Simc and Catus are the only projects I know that can scale items properly.

I guess I should have looked more closely at that post the first time, but

raffy wrote:Using those modifiers, you can reconstruct an stat budget (or an item budget using mod = 1) with:
Code: Select all
   static public int calcStatBudget(int itemLevel, double mod) {
        double a = 1.0066714749800698D;
        double b = 470.78486899738857D;
        double c = 1.401266276725328D;
        return (int)(0.5 + Math.pow(a, b + c * itemLevel) * mod);
    }

This implies the stat scaling is proportional to a^(c*itemLevel) . But a^(c*15) = 1.15 , so in fact the stat scaling is proportional to 1.15^(itemLevel/15) exactly. So it's not 13% per 13 item levels as the conventional wisdom used to go -- it's 15% per 15 item levels. You should be able to find exact stat scaling by just multiplying stats by 1.15^(<item level difference>/15) and rounding to the nearest integer (the (int)(0.5+...) is just rounding).

Edit: actually you could still get rounding errors with this method since the "base stats" the scaling formula effectively uses are not necessarily integers, whereas (looking at the unupgraded piece) you only know those values to the nearest integer.

Further edit: just checked in game and items with gem sockets (not surprisingly) scale better than items without them. So I guess the general rune of 15% stats per 15 item levels isn't something you can apply without a lot of care.
Last edited by Stenhaldi on Fri May 24, 2013 7:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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