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Edgy/Raffy's Catus Thread (Not 6.0 Ready Yet)

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Re: Edgy/Raffy's Official Catus Thread

Postby Rayen » Tue Oct 22, 2013 2:48 pm

*hug* A million cat nip mouses for that trinket comparison ease of use!
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Re: Edgy/Raffy's Official Catus Thread

Postby raffy » Tue Oct 22, 2013 2:51 pm

There is something missing from my Simc variance algorithm because I feel that it produces terrible results, but from my understanding of how it works it should be the same.

In Simc mode, the first sim is a % based sim with fixed duration (this sim is done behind the scenes during simulator prep and not part of any results.) For each sim after that, at the start of the sim, the boss HP is set to value such that the encounter would take +/- 20% of encounter duration (using the previous sim's DPS), where that 20% decays towards 0 as simulations increase and the variance sign alternates +, -, +, -. At the end of the sim, it also tweaks it's HP adjustment, such that the new HP isn't too drastic. I'll have to look at it again.

The old Automatic mode ran 1, then 10, then 25, then 50, (and sometimes 100) iterations of the fight, where after each set, it would readjust the boss HP from some averaged statistics (again, none of these sims were part of the results). At this point the boss HP was fixed, and each actual iteration used the exact same HP.

The new Automatic mode runs 10 fixed time based sims, then constantly updates the boss HP after each iteration, such that the average duration of all sims converges to the desired encounter time. This makes it better for weights, since 10 simulators over large iterations, will converge to the exact same encounter duration. This also maintains the spirit of the original Automatic mode, which made boss HP constant.

Both my version of the Simc variance algorithm and Simc itself produce some pretty crazy variance at +/- 20%. A 7.5min fight will go from 5 to 12 minutes. That seems insane to me. Most fights you can approximate using your own raid DPS to within a minute or so. Automatic mode is much tighter and the extremes are about +/- 15% of the expected duration.

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Re: Edgy/Raffy's Official Catus Thread

Postby inferiorlol » Tue Oct 22, 2013 7:23 pm

Just a quick question. Am I supposed to have to download the whole gear / gem list everytime I start the program? Everytime I have to start it seems like it downloads everything from scratch causing it to take minutes to actually get the program going.

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Re: Edgy/Raffy's Official Catus Thread

Postby raffy » Tue Oct 22, 2013 8:13 pm

Nope, I only update the data like once a month, maybe less. If you're constantly redownloading data, you must be launching Catus.jar from some strange location, or are under some weird set of permissions, or maybe your storage is incredibly slow (unlikely).

When Catus launches, it says "Downloading" but the download process is being intercepted by a cache that will just pull a local copy from your Cache folder (inside same directory as Catus).

Do you have a Cache folder? Is it full of stuff? How long is it taking?

On SSD, cold boot is maybe a few seconds and warm boot is nearly instantaneous (limited by Java startup time.) On traditional media, it's a little slower, but never longer than 5 seconds on any machine I've tested.

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Re: Edgy/Raffy's Official Catus Thread

Postby raffy » Tue Oct 22, 2013 8:56 pm

I produced these two charts recently in terms of HotW/DoC use according to WoL public rankings for Heroic in US/EU:
10H https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/298 ... pTop50.png
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25H https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/298 ... pTop50.png
Image

I'll probably compute some more overall Feral stuff to get a better picture on what people are doing. I think SotF/FoN is next. I can probably parse out what trinkets people are using too.

The depth of the data is limited by how slow worldoflogs.com is. It takes forever to pull data from that website. 50 parses for 11 fights for 2 raid sizes takes like 2*11*(1+50*2) = 2222 requests, at 1 every few sec, it took a good 90+ minutes.

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Re: Edgy/Raffy's Official Catus Thread

Postby Tremnen » Wed Oct 23, 2013 1:48 am

Hey I see my name on there :D

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Re: Edgy/Raffy's Official Catus Thread

Postby raffy » Wed Oct 23, 2013 6:18 am

I can parse SotF, 4pc, and trinkets now.

This guys parse confused me #40 on Immur:
http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-ks6hy ... 532&e=1127
His Rune proc is haste :(

If anyone can come up with some interesting comparisons they'd like to see, I'm interested. I figure some 10vs25 stuff might be interesting. I'm also curious about 4pc use, potion use, etc..

These 3 are for US/EU, 10H, Top 50, 2min+
I'll do more later, I don't have enough time atm to play with it.

Trinket Popularity (all encounters)
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Trinket Uptimes (all encounters)
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SotF/FoN
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Re: Edgy/Raffy's Official Catus Thread

Postby CrazyCatLady » Wed Oct 23, 2013 9:44 am

Hi again Raffy,

Just a quick question: maybe I missed it some place but is there a way to import someone's profile into Catus from an armory page? I wanted to compare gear with someone but they have special characters in their name and I have no idea how to do those. I tried copy/paste the armory link into it and click Import but that didn't work for me.

Thanks!

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Re: Edgy/Raffy's Official Catus Thread

Postby Paloro » Wed Oct 23, 2013 10:35 am

CrazyCatLady wrote:Hi again Raffy,

Just a quick question: maybe I missed it some place but is there a way to import someone's profile into Catus from an armory page? I wanted to compare gear with someone but they have special characters in their name and I have no idea how to do those. I tried copy/paste the armory link into it and click Import but that didn't work for me.

Thanks!


You can always just copy the actual name text on the website. If that doesn't work for you, http://www.alt-codes.net/ is your friend
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Re: Edgy/Raffy's Official Catus Thread

Postby inferiorlol » Wed Oct 23, 2013 11:04 am

raffy wrote:Nope, I only update the data like once a month, maybe less. If you're constantly redownloading data, you must be launching Catus.jar from some strange location, or are under some weird set of permissions, or maybe your storage is incredibly slow (unlikely).

When Catus launches, it says "Downloading" but the download process is being intercepted by a cache that will just pull a local copy from your Cache folder (inside same directory as Catus).

Do you have a Cache folder? Is it full of stuff? How long is it taking?


This is pretty weird. When I launch Catus by clicking on Catus.jar in explorer it starts instantly and everything is fine. When I launch it from the windows 8 start menu by searching for the filename I have to redownload all data again. If I delete the Cache folder and I start it from explorer a new Cache folder is created and data is being downloaded to it. However, if I start it from the start menu with the folder deleted, no new folder is created.

I have checked that the file windows finds when I search for it in the start menu is the same as the one I am clicking on in explorer.

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Re: Edgy/Raffy's Official Catus Thread

Postby raffy » Wed Oct 23, 2013 2:28 pm

CrazyCatLady wrote:Hi again Raffy,

Just a quick question: maybe I missed it some place but is there a way to import someone's profile into Catus from an armory page? I wanted to compare gear with someone but they have special characters in their name and I have no idea how to do those. I tried copy/paste the armory link into it and click Import but that didn't work for me.

Thanks!

Next version will accept Armory URL in Import field. Currently, you can navigate to the armory page in your browser and copy/paste the player name.

inferiorlol wrote:When I launch it from the windows 8 start menu by searching for the filename I have to redownload all data again.

When it is launched from Win8 search, either it is making the Cache folder in some temporary location or it lacks the privileges to create files and silently fails (the cache is necessary, just convenient.)

When you launch Catus via Win8 search, can you click the "Reveal Directory" button in the "Encounters" panel near [x] "Autosave reports"? The Reports folder is stored at the same location as the Cache folder, so potentially this will tell you if the Cache folder is being created at some dumb location and/or not being created at all.

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Re: Edgy/Raffy's Official Catus Thread

Postby inferiorlol » Wed Oct 23, 2013 5:24 pm

raffy wrote:When you launch Catus via Win8 search, can you click the "Reveal Directory" button in the "Encounters" panel near [x] "Autosave reports"? The Reports folder is stored at the same location as the Cache folder, so potentially this will tell you if the Cache folder is being created at some dumb location and/or not being created at all.


When I press the "Reveal directory" button after starting Catus from Windows Explorer the directory pops up in a new Explorer windows. However, when I press it and have started Catus from the Win 8 search menu nothing at all happens.

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Re: Edgy/Raffy's Official Catus Thread

Postby raffy » Wed Oct 23, 2013 8:32 pm

Can you download and launch this application from the two locations you're using and copy/screenshot me the results?
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/298 ... n8Test.zip

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Re: Edgy/Raffy's Official Catus Thread

Postby Nerto » Wed Oct 23, 2013 9:14 pm

hi,

i have problem at catcus with the calculation of the 4 set bonus. If i change my current shoulders and the head with the set item from normal + 8, i get lower numbers, then without. I am curious if the 4-set boni is really so bad.

Config Catcus Simluationcraft
Current: 303,9k 287272
4-Set: 303,3k 300009

I used all buff, Use Faerie, + Melee Damage,Bloodlust After Delay 5 sec, 0 Stormlash etc.. and 50000 iterations. In Simluationcraft i used standard config with 50000 iterations
Equipment:http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/blackhand/Nerto/simple

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Re: Edgy/Raffy's Official Catus Thread

Postby raffy » Wed Oct 23, 2013 10:34 pm

I will look at this closer tonight, but it appears that the 4pc blows for your setup and I do not know why exactly (but I have some ideas.) I'm unfamiliar with non-Rune performance.

Note: this is assuming that Catus is correct, but it looks that way upon inspecting some combat logs.

A. Armory (2pc-only): 307.2K
B. Armory w/4pc (using override): 309.3K
C. Proper 2pc+4pc (using head/shoulder swap): 307.5K
Code: Select all
Gear: 2 differences
               Head: [561] Headpiece of the Shattered Vale    => [561] Hood of Blackened Tears
           Shoulder: [561] Spaulders of the Shattered Vale    => [567] Spaulders of Dominating Dreams

Stats: 7 differences
            Agility: +64 Agi                                  => -64 Agi
    Critical Strike: -425 Crit                                => +425 Crit
          Expertise: +184 Expertise                           => -184 Expertise
              Haste: +31 Haste                                => -31 Haste
                Hit: +3 Hit                                   => -3 Hit
            Mastery: -213 Mastery                             => +213 Mastery
            Stamina: -143 Stam                                => +143 Stam


The first thing to consider is: what exactly is the 4pc doing? 7.5 minutes / 22.5sec TF = ~20 TFs so 60 combos. Since you get 2 finishers close together, they almost all translate into extra FBs, but the gain is minimal:
Code: Select all
A. Ferocious Bite                       13.1   282653   80.35%    2.67%
B. Ferocious Bite                       16.5   296323   80.32%    3.52%
C. Ferocious Bite                       16.6   295411   79.65%    3.53%

Secondly, you are using FoN, so that extra FB is expensive, whereas with SotF the finishers are "free."

Third, the wait time for this configuration is incredibly high:
Code: Select all
Waiting                  3.7m  49.70% 

It probably difficult to get off Thrash and extra FBs.

Anyway, this is interesting and requires more work to figure out what's going on.

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Re: Edgy/Raffy's Official Catus Thread

Postby haeren » Thu Oct 24, 2013 1:12 am

Hello Raffy, great application!

Have one very small issue to report though, using the 'Default' button in 'Maximize secondary' applies all values with an comma (,), at least while using swedish win 7. Likewise the generated report from 'Generate Weights' has commas.
Using that 'Reforge' says eg. "Agi is not an number (6,50)", changing , to . solves it.

Thanks and keep up the good work!

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Re: Edgy/Raffy's Official Catus Thread

Postby raffy » Thu Oct 24, 2013 2:28 am

Ah, I can fix this. I agree that's stupid. I'm not very familiar with localization as I don't normal write applications that more than one person actually uses :) Thanks for the report.

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Re: Edgy/Raffy's Official Catus Thread

Postby Tempo » Thu Oct 24, 2013 10:28 pm

how do you do sim gear set A vs gear set B in this latest version? (v28)
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Re: Edgy/Raffy's Official Catus Thread

Postby scorpio0920 » Thu Oct 24, 2013 11:12 pm

Tempo wrote:how do you do sim gear set A vs gear set B in this latest version? (v28)


Green plus "+"

Configuration vs Configuration

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Re: Edgy/Raffy's Official Catus Thread

Postby raffy » Thu Oct 24, 2013 11:57 pm

Tempo wrote:how do you do sim gear set A vs gear set B in this latest version? (v28)

How were you using this feature before? In your example, is either set of gear your current armory? I didn't think anyone was using AvsB because it was so incomplete, so I'm curious about your use-case.

To do a comparison for two gear sets:
1. Setup config A, hit sim, in the sim window, name it "A"
2. Immediately go back and make changes so its B, hit sim again, name it "B"
or
1. Setup a config with gear A
2. Click config name, call it "A"
3. Click Green Plus [ctrl-T]
4. Change it to gear B
5. Rename it "B"
6. Sim them both

The old Configuration model (when it was backed by individual files) was created under the expectation that you've have a T14 BiS, T15 BiS, T16 BiS, and Chal Mode BiS configs. But I soon realized that this was basically the extent of "static" configurations, and most configurations are just temporary ideas: "my gear right now", "my gear right now + different shoulders", "my gear right now using mangle", "my gear but using offset pieces upgrades as troll instead of cow", etc... and every week or so, old configs could easily be killed and new ones would take their places. So the new Configuration model was designed so it's super easy to create/clone/delete/rename configurations. Unfortunately, during the transition to the new system, I killed AvsB, as I'm expecting to have a batch simulator soon (like trinket simulator, but more generalized.)

- I thinking v29 should have a Simulator: Quick Compare, which can do: (vs Armory) (vs Gear from another Config, using current configuration effects) at the touch of a button.
- Maybe a quick way to pull just gear (no effects) from another configuration tab.
- And a quick way to pull effects (no gear) from another configuration tab.

I was also thinking that maybe "try as doc, hotw passive, hotw active" as one button, or "try as sotf or fon" as one button might be nice too. maybe different reforge modes (1:1:1 red, 1:1:1 orange, 1:1:1 yellow, mastery > haste > crit, mastery > crit > haste, etc...).

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Re: Edgy/Raffy's Official Catus Thread

Postby Tempo » Fri Oct 25, 2013 12:29 am

i would snapshot my current gear, click snapshot under the a vs b section... change whatever items i wanted to compare the snapshot to, reforge and click fight

great for a quick "is this offset piece better than this?'

thanks for the reply
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Re: Edgy/Raffy's Official Catus Thread

Postby Tempo » Fri Oct 25, 2013 12:47 am

also... i'm not sure i'm following how to do it still... i'm currently in raid so i'm unable to devote full attention to it right now, but when you say to 'hit sim', that's where i'm getting lost

under what section?

maybe a quick screenshot or something

sorry and thanks
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Re: Edgy/Raffy's Official Catus Thread

Postby raffy » Fri Oct 25, 2013 3:05 am

Oh, Simulator: Distribution, that generates an iterated damage report. AvsB was essentially a shortcut for doing two Simulator: Distributions in tandem.

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Re: Edgy/Raffy's Official Catus Thread

Postby Tempo » Fri Oct 25, 2013 3:30 am

raffy wrote:- I thinking v29 should have a Simulator: Quick Compare, which can do: (vs Armory) (vs Gear from another Config, using current configuration effects) at the touch of a button.
- Maybe a quick way to pull just gear (no effects) from another configuration tab.
- And a quick way to pull effects (no gear) from another configuration tab.


THIS, will be AMAZING... yes plz and ty, looking forward to it

raffy wrote:Oh, Simulator: Distribution, that generates an iterated damage report. AvsB was essentially a shortcut for doing two Simulator: Distributions in tandem.


gotcha, thanks... thought i was missing part of the program for a moment there
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Re: Edgy/Raffy's Official Catus Thread

Postby Dodok » Fri Oct 25, 2013 4:25 pm

I cannot import my character into Catus. Is there some delay before I can import the character? As I hit 90 a bit more than two hours ago and the error says "Unable to find a level 90 named "Dodok" in EU." The character is level 90 in the armory. ( http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/e ... dok/simple ) Also I am able to import Edgy from US, so no connection issues.

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