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Edgy/Raffy's Official Catus Thread

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Re: Edgy/Raffy's Official Catus Thread

Postby raffy » Fri Dec 13, 2013 10:12 pm

As a side project, since there isn't much to do in WoW right now (with a lot of unknowns for WoD and most Catus improvements aren't worth the effort), I've been working casually on a Hearthstone simulator called Focus (latin for Hearth.) Currently, I've got a system in place that can import cards from external data files (so they can be customized or hot-fixed with ease), and when loaded onto a board, I can produce a tree of possible action sequences (still incomplete.) I'm still unclear about a lot of order of operations (I've only played a few Hearthstone games but I enjoy watching Twitch) and how some card mechanics actually work.

Here are a few goals/ideas for the project:

- brute-force compute lethal from a described board arrangement (puzzle mode: given a board, does there exist a sequence of actions that can kill your opponent). this can be used to validate various aspects of the game and internal logic. a test set can be produced (with known lethality, overkill, etc.) to check against.

- i'm sure the game-space is huge, but it would be interesting to see how much of it can be traversed (likelihood of success, damage/health projections, n-turns ahead.) obviously some decks are probably very easy to simulate, and others blow up in complexity very quickly.

- collect a large distribution of sequential plays (at each level of mana) from existing games and then use this data for a lazy AI (choose possible moves randomly based on frequency from recorded play). ultimately, having a smart AI is critical for being able to evaluate deck performance (and prune dumb action paths when walking around the game-space.)

- if an acceptable AI system can be built that can produce answers quickly, lots of interesting things can be computed by running a huge simulation. this would let you compute deck vs deck win rates, the advantage of going first/second, etc.

- can the game logic be encoded as an action-list? is there some efficient way to describe how to optimally play a deck? if a data-driven AI system is sufficient, can it's decision logic be reversed to produce this kind of action-list automatically? can it learn to play by knowing how others play?

This isn't Catus/Druid-related, but since I haven't updated Catus in a while, I figured I should update my status.

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Re: Edgy/Raffy's Official Catus Thread

Postby aggixx » Sat Dec 14, 2013 6:50 pm

My god, that's so amazing! :D
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Re: Edgy/Raffy's Official Catus Thread

Postby Polariss » Mon Dec 16, 2013 8:23 pm

Hi, long time lurker and first must say thanks for all the info this place gives, probably the best class info forum site there is. I do have a question regarding catus though. Was changing a couple items around to compare dps and the first time I forgot to upgrade the 2 items that I had switched so after I upgraded them I was surprised to see the log at around 40k less than when they were upgraded. Not sure if I have done something wrong or missed something but I never changed anything between dps logs except the item levels of the 2 pieces I switched. Toon is Whitehorn of Rexxar and the 2 pieces replaced were the flex Ricocheting Shoulderguards and Arielle's Ancient Legwraps off of Ordos. Any help would be appreciated.

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Re: Edgy/Raffy's Official Catus Thread

Postby Steakbomb » Mon Dec 16, 2013 10:22 pm

Might be a stupid question but did you reforge/regem in Catus after you changed items around?

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Re: Edgy/Raffy's Official Catus Thread

Postby Polariss » Mon Dec 16, 2013 10:59 pm

Yes I did including enchants as well which is why I cant figure it out. The logs show the slight increases in stats etc so I'm stumped. (although it doesn't take much)

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Re: Edgy/Raffy's Official Catus Thread

Postby zver » Tue Dec 17, 2013 12:24 am

Well you said you reforged after swapping in the items, but did you also do so after upgrading them? Long shot but it's theoretically possible that the upgrade was enough to throw your stats out of balance and thus RoRo was giving the wrong proc?

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Re: Edgy/Raffy's Official Catus Thread

Postby Polariss » Tue Dec 17, 2013 12:47 am

I did but I was stupidly using the generate log instead of the distribution button my bad :( . Everything is where it should be

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Re: Edgy/Raffy's Official Catus Thread

Postby raffy » Mon Dec 23, 2013 5:49 am

I wanted to say Merry Xmas to you guys :P I remember doing a lot of the early Catus work on flights during Thanksgiving and Xmas of last year.

No promises, but depending on my free time this week, I have a Catus update with some action list bleed improvements (that should be toggleable) and some bug fixes. As I said earlier, the only reason I'm not updating Catus currently is mainly due to the mechanical changes coming in WoD.

I agree with some of the comments in Final Boss #20 with Sten and Tinder -- mainly that Feral simulation is still lacking, and still misses a lot of the nuances in the rotation -- "planning" as Sten called it. This will definitely be one of the goals for WoD Catus. Originally, I had some ideas for a new kind of "action list" representation that could express our rotation better, but none of that work ever made it into main codebase.

In regards to my Hearthstone simulator (Focus) project -- I'm making progress! I started a temporary thread over at the off-topic forum.

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Re: Edgy/Raffy's Official Catus Thread

Postby Nige » Mon Dec 23, 2013 8:10 am

Merry Xmas to you too mate!

Thanks again for the sterling job you do with this and im very much looking forward to seeing how it evolves once WOD lands.

Have a good one !

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Re: Edgy/Raffy's Official Catus Thread

Postby ripshawn » Sat Dec 28, 2013 6:40 am

merry Christmas and happy new year everyone. i was wondering something. i read early in a forum posting about gemming that at ilvl 560 you should start to gem yellow gems. but when i use catus it tells me to us all red gems. in almost everything (which i have done). So which way should I go all red in almost everything or start replace them with yellow gems as was stated in a different forum here. here is my character info if you would be to kind to check it for me.

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/l ... n/advanced

Thanks again for the help

i just tried to change my gems around so i have most orange gems and in catus it keeps change my gems to my old set up when i go to reforge using the new gems?
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Re: Edgy/Raffy's Official Catus Thread

Postby raffy » Sat Dec 28, 2013 9:04 pm

The Maximize Stats reforger will only gem yellow if your weights allow it (2x Mastery > Agi.)

w/o a Rune, I don't know if secondaries are ever better but I haven't done much research so I'm unsure. You could try changing your weights such that you get a Yellow gem/reforging, then run a Stat Weight simulation and see if it still points towards any secondaries or back towards Agility.

Note: the delta used in stat weight simulations is far to small relative to how much you can shift your stats around to determine with confidence, for a profile with red gems, if yellow gems are actually better. Simc uses a 1000 delta, Catus default is 900, yet you can swing your secondaries like +/- 15000.

To simplify the search space, I'd wager the only secondary that can beat Agility is Mastery, so you really only need to test Agility vs Mastery. At a quick glance, it appears that relative to your armory, even with the default settings using a small delta, 2x Mastery > Agility (2x 5.2 vs 9.4). Starting from the default reforger weights, I scaled the 6.5 weight for Agility down to 5.8 (6.5*9.38/(5.16*2)) and did a reforge. Then, I ran Simulator: Quick Compare relative to Armory and I see a ~2K DPS gain.

However, recomputing your weights in this configuration give 2x Mastery == Agility (Note: small simulation size)
Code: Select all
Name                    DPS   Stdev    Gain   Error  Weight   Error  Delta
Baseline             335.3K    6796       0      96    0.00    0.11 
Agility              344.6K    6904    9325     137   10.36    0.15  +900 Agility
Mastery              339.9K    6851    4658     136    5.18    0.15  +900 Mastery
Critical Strike      338.8K    6815    3524     136    3.92    0.15  +900 Crit
Attack Power         338.6K    6865    3315     137    3.68    0.15  +900 AP
Strength             338.6K    6948    3293     137    3.66    0.15  +900 Strength
Haste                338.2K    6714    2985     135    3.32    0.15  +900 Haste


Technically, you can set the Agility weight to 6.4 (2*3.2), so it's exactly 2x Mastery, and the reforger will rainbow gem you (depending on your socket bonuses.) The main advantage of going Yellow or Orange-ish/Rainbow when your weights are so close, is that you can pickup the majority of the socket bonuses for extra value :)

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Re: Edgy/Raffy's Official Catus Thread

Postby bacevicius » Fri Jan 03, 2014 8:23 pm

I have a question with RORO I only have the 536 and with the 567 talisman.. But I see a lot of ferals gemming red green , yellow orange etc maximizing secondaries and ignoring agility gems orange etc... and ending up with about 1000k more per secondary for the rune to proc with... How did you compute that this way is more dps... Please tell me does catus do this?? if so I cant find it anywhere.. The 536 and talisman still show 7 to 8 k dps over AOC , I use that for CD intense fights only... Also is this new reforging with greens and yellows etc only viable if your using the DOC talent??

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Re: Edgy/Raffy's Official Catus Thread

Postby Azarri » Fri Jan 03, 2014 11:04 pm

Regardless of talent choices secondaries stats tend to pull ahead when you reach a high enough item level; generally around 570ish (If you are using RoRo). You can do this in Catus by changing your choice of gems from Red to Yellow in the Reforge section. The DPS gain won't be by a wide margin if at all but if you're maximizing your toon then generally worth doing once you character is geared enough for it. In regards to RoRo I'm using a 530 and 574 Haromm's Talisman and still pulling about 8k higher sims than the next leading setup; all I can recommend is sticking with it and continue simming your toon when you get new gear with both trinket setups. Don't forget to Reforge using Red gems without RoRo.

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Re: Edgy/Raffy's Official Catus Thread

Postby bacevicius » Sun Jan 05, 2014 1:53 am

Azarri wrote:Regardless of talent choices secondaries stats tend to pull ahead when you reach a high enough item level; generally around 570ish (If you are using RoRo). You can do this in Catus by changing your choice of gems from Red to Yellow in the Reforge section. The DPS gain won't be by a wide margin if at all but if you're maximizing your toon then generally worth doing once you character is geared enough for it. In regards to RoRo I'm using a 530 and 574 Haromm's Talisman and still pulling about 8k higher sims than the next leading setup; all I can recommend is sticking with it and continue simming your toon when you get new gear with both trinket setups. Don't forget to Reforge using Red gems without RoRo.


I ran catus, with 6 different trinket pairs.... with my gear letting it simulate , Heres the results
1. 384.3K 137 [543] Rune of Re-Origination [580] Assurance of Consequence
2. 380.5K 137 [536] Rune of Re-Origination [580] Assurance of Consequence
3. 379.2K 176 [543] Rune of Re-Origination [567] Haromm's Talisman
4. 376.1K 173 [536] Rune of Re-Origination [567] Haromm's Talisman
5. 375.9K 121 [567] Haromm's Talisman [580] Assurance of Consequence
6. 375.6K 181 [543] Rune of Re-Origination [561] Ticking Ebon Detonator
7. 374.2K 128 [543] Rune of Re-Origination [561] Assurance of Consequence
8. 372.4K 128 [561] Ticking Ebon Detonator [580] Assurance of Consequence
9. 371.9K 177 [536] Rune of Re-Origination [561] Ticking Ebon Detonator
10. 370.7K 167 [561] Ticking Ebon Detonator [567] Haromm's Talisman
11. 370.3K 129 [536] Rune of Re-Origination [561] Assurance of Consequence
12. 366.3K 118 [561] Assurance of Consequence [567] Haromm's Talisman
13. 363.2K 125 [561] Ticking Ebon Detonator [561] Assurance of Consequence

My trinkets come up number 4 on the list ,
even if I happen to pick up the WF TED and not use my 536 :
373.8K 172 [567] Ticking Ebon Detonator [567] Haromm's Talisman
its still 3 k or so less than unsing my 536 RORO and The 567 Talisman,
since we are just now on 25 man Heroic watercannon and the council in SOO, I may only have access to the heroic AOC in the near future..

With HOTW and SOTF
1. 358.3K 125 [536] Rune of Re-Origination [574] Assurance of Consequence
2. 356.9K 165 [536] Rune of Re-Origination [567] Haromm's Talisman
3. 355.0K 171 [536] Rune of Re-Origination [561] Ticking Ebon Detonator
4. 354.7K 162 [561] Ticking Ebon Detonator [567] Haromm's Talisman
5. 354.5K 115 [567] Haromm's Talisman [574] Assurance of Consequence
6. 354.3K 128 [561] Ticking Ebon Detonator [574] Assurance of Consequence
7. 352.0K 120 [536] Rune of Re-Origination [561] Assurance of Consequence
8. 348.3K 115 [561] Assurance of Consequence [567] Haromm's Talisman
9. 348.1K 127 [561] Ticking Ebon Detonator [561] Assurance of Consequence
10. 341.4K 64 [567] Sigil of Rampage [574] Assurance of Consequence
11. 341.0K 113 [536] Rune of Re-Origination [567] Sigil of Rampage
12. 338.6K 106 [567] Sigil of Rampage [567] Haromm's Talisman
13. 337.7K 118 [561] Ticking Ebon Detonator [567] Sigil of Rampage
14. 335.9K 62 [561] Assurance of Consequence [567] Sigil of Rampage

In only HOTW case, 567 TED and 567 Talisman would pull ahead of 536 RORO and 567 TED by about even or less than 1k DPS


Now My question to you is: How in the F"((K does one even run with DOC in a 25 man heroic fight, or 25 man regular?... I am having issues with just a target dummy practicing, It seems that after 3 or 4 minutes my dps on the dummy has gone under 300K ,,,Yes,, In real life raiding if its not a stand there boss..I am making TONS of errors If I HOTW these dps numbers drop on catus by 15 to 20k dps, in the 350'ish range... However I am ahead of every dps in my raid by 10 to 20k, I do have ovale running with leafkillers script and it does work, When I start on the dummy and I haven't screwed up I see not as much burst but I am able to maintain 350 to 450k in the first minute or so, why does the dps go down to 300k or sometimes 290'is by me just standing there looking and hitting a dummy? , I have also noticed that the RORO dosent seem to proc near as much on a dummy, in raiding I see back to back's all the time, Do you have a keybind/and or macro that I can use for casting HT with the proc, I am completely out of key binds , and during a fight when theres lots of shit going on IE paragons, Garrosh I find it almost impossible to pay attention to the DOC proc because im so concerned with adds . mechanics with 25 people that I completely fu%% up the rotation my dps BOMBS to hell... HOTW is easy but I really need some input on how to gain the 15 to 20k that DOC provides, Not to mention with the FON talent these numbers go up like 3 or 4 k dps dropping treants at the right time, however I have no MORE keys left LOL>>> so ill stick with SOTF... I have ran with ferals with more gear than me 580 weapons using DOC, and I blow them out of the water in real raiding using HOTW... your input on how to use this talent is appreciated as were going to to 25 heroic soo and we need al lthe DPS we can get... I use Ovale with the boxes right to the left of my kitty and I have the Bad kitty timer bars underneath him just to do checking ...
Thanks
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Re: Edgy/Raffy's Official Catus Thread

Postby Shibumi » Sun Jan 05, 2014 11:09 pm

I got the new (no longer Bear Hax'd) version and tried it out. As far as crit maximizing goes, it worked like a charm! I have a few minor points of usability feedback from my experience.

I didn't want the crit from the Agility on my Talisman of Bloodlust to be included in the reckoning, as I have to be able to swap that trinket out depending on the fight*, and I didn't want to clutter the compare screen with stat differences due to my having removed my trinkets in the profile while the Armory still has them in place; so, I created a "Character (Armory)" profile that differed from the Armory only in that it had no trinkets equipped. With that set up, I was able to use Compare to: Configuration "Character (Armory)". That said, what followed led me to these points:

  • Have you considered letting the last selection "stick" for the Gear Compare comboboxes? The work would likely not be justifiable just to save one click; but, as I see it, you'd have to do something like:
    Compare to: ( Configuration ▼)( Player ▼) ( Compare ) or ( Armory )
    We'd need a new button to activate the selection in Configuration or Player. A selection in one would also need to reset the other to avoid ambiguity.
  • Under Reforge / Constraints and Weights, "depricated" should be "deprecated". :)
  • Under Equipment, I see that I can overwrite the current equipment with the equipment from another profile (using <Alt> to just copy equipment). What about putting an "Armory" option as the first item in the Copy combobox? The use case would be wanting to revert equipment fiddling without nuking other stuff. I could get that with my "Character (Armory)" profile, but it seems pretty simple to do more easily.
  • The tooltip for the Copy combobox has the line: "Import Gear, Swap, Race, and Professions from another profile." Your Oxford comma notwithstanding, is the word "Swap" supposed to be in there?
  • Along those lines, it seems like it would also be useful to be able to "revert" equipment on a per-slot basis. Say I've been fiddling with a few pieces of gear, but I just want to put the wrist slot back to what it was. Could we extend the same idea from the last point and add an "Armory" option at the top of the slot combobox? Given that, it might be reasonable to say that profiles should show in there, too, to keep parity with the Copy combobox. I'm not sure; more lines will push the gear down more. I wonder what the average number of profiles is for a Catus user...

For that last one, the "Character (Armory)" profile could fill the need, again: I could just swap to that profile, copy the line from the Edit dialog and paste it over the existing one in the working profile. As with the others, it's just a question of more or less clicks.

That's all I have. It's such a clean piece of software, I'm down to nits. I really enjoy polishing a program, though, myself -- especially in the UI where the changes are usually easier to make and more immediately noticeable. Thanks for entertaining (and so thoroughly) both of the big requests I've made, here!

-----------
*Speaking of trinkets, generally, a tank is going to want to have a movement-speed-increasing enchant on the feet slot, so I had to uncheck Feet to prevent it from removing that. You might consider not suggesting the Feet checkbox be checked as part of in the guide. I can imagine myself going as far as buying a replacement enchant and stopping with a glowy-hand cursor over my boots as I realize I can't replace Blurred Speed.
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Re: Edgy/Raffy's Official Catus Thread

Postby raffy » Mon Jan 06, 2014 12:08 am

Thanks for the feedback!

- If by "Last Selection" you mean the last reforge? then the best way to emulate this is by making a clone profile ([ctrl]+T or green plus) with the setup you want to snapshot, and then comparing against that. The configuration UI, while sometimes confusing, is designed for making multiple snapshots during experimentation. Originally, Catus had a single Snapshot button, which you could compare against.

- Oh, I think I misunderstood what you meant. You mean you want the compare choice to stick, so you can just hit Compare again. There was a version that worked like this, but I decided it was too much work to maintain the latest selections per configuration when both the Player and Configuration menus change based on new imports and configuration changes. I think the current UI is simpler (less buttons, less state), but I agree, it's a bit more work for repeated comparisons.

- I'll add the Armory option to the copy menu. I'll also add an armory option to the gear menu when you [x] out a slot, so you can import an individual slot. And I'll make a shortcut [alt]+[x] which restores the slot immediately to your Armory.

- Swap is the (internal) name for the Caster weapon equipment (MH+OH)

- I usually keep #1-5 (which can be accessed via [ctrl]+#) as myself and some other druids in the community. The remaining configs are usually just copies of various things, experiments and stuff, which I usually just delete when I'm finished with them. Inside my Catus folder, I have a text file with a shitload of Compact Gear gears for various things, which I copy-paste on demand. Originally, Catus configurations were created under the impression that you'd have a "T14 BiS", "T15 BiS", "T16 BiS", "T16 BiS Upgraded", etc. but I realized that it's so easy to import or copy in gear (from a forum-safe CompactGear representation) that beyond these fixed gear sets, most stuff you do in Catus isn't static or worth saving permanently.

- Catus was developed pretty organically (no plan, lots of iteration) but one of the design choices that I tried to maintain was live updates so changes are reflected immediately. While this might sound easy for the simple stuff, it's surprising difficult to do this in all cases. Swapping professions dynamically requires a lot of invalidation+revalidation. Swapping races requires swapping faction specific gear (like PvP stuff.)

- Feet is only there because it can be. It was added when I added Monk support. I agree it should (almost) never be used for Druid, but since I support any stat weights, not just the expected stat weights, I feel it should be included. It also exists for the 1:1:1 reforger but I don't show it to reduce confusion. Sadly, I never got around to calculating movement speed (forgot about it.)

I plan to revisit a lot of this stuff for MoP, but I'm still waiting for some alpha/beta/whatever information before I start making changes. I'll try to fit some of these changes into the action list logic update I've been talking about.

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Re: Edgy/Raffy's Official Catus Thread

Postby raffy » Mon Jan 06, 2014 12:36 am

HotW is understated by simulation since it's DPS is more dependent on action list logic than DoC (like, it's a clear gain to replace a bleed when DoC is available.) So I wouldn't directly compare HotW to DoC. Instead, I'd compare DoC (Rune/NoRune) to HotW (Rune/NoRune.)

If you don't feel comfortable with DoC, just use HotW. For some reason, people seem to associate HotW with simplicity, as if DoC is the elite option. DoC vs HotW is actually a legitimate choice (esp for 10man). While the sample size is small, from the analysis I did across top 100 ranks for 10 and 25 man, beyond the bias of more Cats running DoC, the HotW players ranked just as high as DoC players (it wasn't as if 1-75 = DoC, 76-100 = HotW.)

In regards to DoC in practice (beyond the execution of it): I wouldn't run DoC without a good computer or solid internet connection. With reasonable gear, you're weaving a HT into your rotation every ~10 seconds. While not a concern under normal situations, when your hasted with multiple raid cooldowns active, if your computer/connection isn't up to the task, it's common to experience significant ability delay (Catus defaults use 50ms with 250ms reaction time.)

Everyone bursts at the opener due to alignment. Being able to execute a good opener is crucial. This was one of the major reasons we lost NS, because having on-demand DoC on the opener was worth a huge amount of DPS, even if you only used NS once the entire fight. The big difference with dummies is that your RPPM trinkets do not reset. When you do dummy testing, make sure you incur some idle time between samples.

I don't know if this answers any of your questions :)

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Re: Edgy/Raffy's Official Catus Thread

Postby raffy » Mon Jan 06, 2014 12:44 am

bacevicius wrote:I have a question with RORO I only have the 536 and with the 567 talisman.. But I see a lot of ferals gemming red green , yellow orange etc maximizing secondaries and ignoring agility gems orange etc... and ending up with about 1000k more per secondary for the rune to proc with... How did you compute that this way is more dps... Please tell me does catus do this?? if so I cant find it anywhere.. The 536 and talisman still show 7 to 8 k dps over AOC , I use that for CD intense fights only... Also is this new reforging with greens and yellows etc only viable if your using the DOC talent??

Catus can do this: import your cat, setup your buffs, reforge to Red, do a sim (Generate Distribution), reforge to Yellow, do another sim.

It does not depend on your DoC/HotW choice. It does depend on your item level (higher favors secondaries.)

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Re: Edgy/Raffy's Official Catus Thread

Postby Shibumi » Mon Jan 06, 2014 12:52 am

raffy wrote:- Oh, I think I misunderstood what you meant. You mean you want the compare choice to stick, so you can just hit Compare again. There was a version that worked like this, but I decide it was too much work to maintain the latest selections per configuration when both the Player and Configuration menus change based on new imports and configuration changes. I think the current UI is simpler (less buttons, less state), but I agree, it's a bit more work for repeated comparisons.

Ah, I didn't even think about those other ways the lists could change; that would be nasty. Well, what about a button that just repeats whatever compare was last performed? Or, would that be too annoying to integrate into the current compare code? That could be a nice compromise.

raffy wrote:- I'll add the Armory option to the copy menu. I'll also add an armory option to the gear menu when you [x] out a slot, so you can import an individual slot. And I'll make a shortcut [alt]+[x] which restores the slot immediately to your Armory.

I guess that will be for whichever combobox has focus, as there's no "big" way to "select" a slot? Or, just the one that was last cleared?

raffy wrote:- Swap is the (internal) name for the Caster weapon equipment (MH+OH)

Well, conceptually, at least for me, anything that's slotted into the paper doll frame is "gear"/"equipment" -- including the weapon kit. Maybe it would be less complicated to just say, "Import Gear, Race, and Professions [...]"? Though, if I'm the only one who's been confused, here... I suppose it's just a learning/training issue.

raffy wrote:- Feet is only there because it can be. It was added when I added Monk support. I agree it should (almost) never be used for Druid, but since I support any stat weights, not just the expected stat weights, I feel it should be included. It also exists for the 1:1:1 reforger but I don't show it to reduce confusion. Sadly, I never got around to calculating movement speed (forgot about it.)

I wasn't saying it should be removed, just that you shouldn't say to check it in the Guardian guide(s). Hmm. Maybe I can see why you weren't getting what I was saying... Was that ever in the guide here or on MMO-C? I swear I read "[x] Feet", but now I've gone to look and either it was never there or you did some ninja edits. I wouldn't rule out the possibility that I read something that wasn't there :).

It would be pretty hard to model the value of a movement-speed-increasing enchant, I think. And, I suppose it doesn't matter as we won't even be guaranteed to have movement on our boots in WoD, anymore, anyway.

Thanks for taking the time to respond!
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Re: Edgy/Raffy's Official Catus Thread

Postby bacevicius » Mon Jan 06, 2014 10:48 am

yeah I noticed that esp in fights with adds and others that need attention like garrosh etc... and Lei S where theres so much shit to look for I would screw up a DOC .... and I have a 561 gaze for tranq with HOTW and in most cases its coming up with 5k more deeps with DOC vs HOTW with 568 ivl... 567 ted and 567 talisman.. are dead even with 536 rO and 567 talisman so Iam at the point that I need a 543 or more RO or forget it ... and ive never seen it drop. .. DOC puts 3500 or so ahead of the two 567's but that's useless .. dps errors etc.. plus having a big tranq with HOTw and more HP on heroic 25... I cant seethe use of DOC im already over 1 percent higher than our top deeps on a single t boss in 25 SOO >.. but I didn't know u could make catus save and switch thanks for letting me know

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Re: Edgy/Raffy's Official Catus Thread

Postby Funkaga » Wed Jan 08, 2014 2:55 pm

Hey there!

First of all I would like to thank Raffy for all the work that he is done, appreciate it!

After reading almost every page in this thread, im still lost. English isnt my strongest language so im having a hard time to get an answer to my question.

Ive been trying to figure out what the best reforge/gem setup is for my feral (http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/r ... aga/simple).

I hope someone can give me some tips on this. :)

Thnx!

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Re: Edgy/Raffy's Official Catus Thread

Postby corfish » Mon Jan 13, 2014 1:26 am

To anyone: I'm new to Catus, but I can not find a tutorial for it anywhere. Help?

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Re: Edgy/Raffy's Official Catus Thread

Postby aggixx » Mon Jan 13, 2014 6:00 am

There's a slightly dated guide posted by raffy here. Catus has changed a tad but it should still walk you through it pretty well. One thing he doesn't mention is you can find step 2 in the "Import from Armory" section.
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Re: Edgy/Raffy's Official Catus Thread

Postby corfish » Tue Jan 14, 2014 7:22 pm

Thanks again!

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Re: Edgy/Raffy's Official Catus Thread

Postby Fatsteak » Thu Jan 16, 2014 1:24 am

Hi, I cant seem to get catus to reforge my character. It keeps telling me my my hi/exp cant meet critera and i dont understand why and cant seem to fix it :( can somone help me out?


Fatsteak-Blackrock US

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