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Feral Rotation & DPS help

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Feral Rotation & DPS help

Postby Evizio » Fri May 03, 2013 5:52 pm

Hey there. I've been 90 for a short while on my Druid and have been gearing up for ToT. I do around 50-85k DPS and I'm trying to get better, because my friend in this current guild wants me to raid with them soon. I follow every priority, but it seems like I can't get past that range and I'm not sure what I'm doing wrong.

Here is a recent parse from Halls of Flesh I did to gear up (I've been using HotW/SotF to gear up until I feel comfortable with DoC.)
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/mpqj ... amageDone/

Also, when is it a good point to go Haste instead of Mastery? I know Haste is not the best stats and Mastery is best, but I've noticed a lot of druids have gone Haste this patch with the gear from ToT they've been getting.

Thanks in advance if anyone can help a fellow druid out. (P.S. I'm working on enchants for my gear.)

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Re: Feral Rotation & DPS help

Postby Steakbomb » Fri May 03, 2013 9:12 pm

Your Rip/Rake uptimes are a bit low. You should be keeping Trash up at all times. It is a DPS increase to Trash without OOC proc if you do not have it up or if it's about to run out. I didn't look too hard at the logs but that's what I say off of Dr Mumu as the other 2 bosses you are target switching too much to look at uptimes too much.

Haste will only start to beat out Mastery when you get in to Heroic ToT gear. Once you get a RoR then you will want to go to a 1:1:1 ratio on Mastery/Haste/Crit with Mastery being just a bit higher than the other 2.

I would highly recommend going SotF and HotW for the foreseeable future as DoC is a bit higher for DPS but that's assuming you can be perfect on proc usage and be able to keep up the rotation for the duration of the fight.

I personally use HotW most of the time. On Fights like JinRokh I usually go DoC but most of the time you will find that DoC ends up being a DPS loss unless you are an amazing player or get super lucky with procs.

If you end up getting a lot of ToT Heroic gear but not the Rune then Haste does become better than Mastery.

Hope this helps a bit but there are a lot of great druids on this forums and there will be better advice than I have for you.
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Re: Feral Rotation & DPS help

Postby Vami » Sat May 04, 2013 4:37 am

I'd say it's a gear issue more or less. Maybe you could use some other tips, too. Here goes.

Practice makes perfect. Overwrite Rake if you'd be able to put a better one on (hopefully you have some addon that tracks bleed ratios). Always keep Rake up (95% uptime needed at least, no excuses). Rip to 90% uptime, too. Always try to refresh Savage Roar with 5 combopoints and less than 3seconds left. Save energy, don't spam the buttons. If you get amazing procs, put up ALL THE BLEEDS. And yeah, as Steakbomb said, keep Thrash up too, but don't let it interfere with Rake or Rip uptimes. If you don't have energy for everything, use it on Rake and Rip, and Savage Roar. Use Mangle to get combopoints unless you're flooding with energy or get a CC proc (then Shred). Learn when to use FB and when to wait at 5CPs to use Rip or SR.

Getting a better weapon and a better 2nd trinket would help a ton already. For example Relic of Xuen is better than Terror in the Mists, and it shouldn't be that expensive anymore (if you don't trust your luck in ToT for the trinkets). Coin on Horridon and Lei Shen for a better weapon.

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Re: Feral Rotation & DPS help

Postby aggixx » Sun May 05, 2013 12:09 am

Vami wrote:Always try to refresh Savage Roar with 5 combopoints and less than 3seconds left.

To be clear on this, it's okay to refresh with any amount of combo points, but in any situation where you can fit in more CPs without losing uptime you should go for it. The longer the roar is the less opportunities for it to collide with something else.
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Re: Feral Rotation & DPS help

Postby Vami » Sun May 05, 2013 12:28 am

aggixx wrote:
Vami wrote:Always try to refresh Savage Roar with 5 combopoints and less than 3seconds left.

To be clear on this, it's okay to refresh with any amount of combo points, but in any situation where you can fit in more CPs without losing uptime you should go for it. The longer the roar is the less opportunities for it to collide with something else.


And it saves energy, too.

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Re: Feral Rotation & DPS help

Postby Whitepaw » Tue May 07, 2013 5:08 am

To keep Thrash up, would it be a gain to shift to bear when at 0 energy, hit Thrash, switch back to cat and keep rotation up? It's between 4.5 - 5 sec GCD, where you fire Thrash in bear form, but you might also miss auto-swings?

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Re: Feral Rotation & DPS help

Postby aggixx » Tue May 07, 2013 2:11 pm

It's worth it on many target (like 8+) AoE if they'll live the whole duration of the Thrash, but Thrash (Cat) and Thrash (Bear) are different abilities that apply different DoTs.
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Re: Feral Rotation & DPS help

Postby Cetlysm » Tue May 07, 2013 3:12 pm

aggixx wrote:It's worth it on many target (like 8+) AoE if they'll live the whole duration of the Thrash, but Thrash (Cat) and Thrash (Bear) are different abilities that apply different DoTs.

How much is it worth bear swapping to thrash on lets say tortos.
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Re: Feral Rotation & DPS help

Postby aggixx » Tue May 07, 2013 3:51 pm

I'm pretty sure some people did it last tier on Mel'jarak (I know I did) since it's a very patchwerk-esque type AoE encounter. It is a lot of extra work, and you only really want to do it when you're energy starved.

For Tortos bats or ball lightnings, if you're saving TF (and possibly berserk) for them as you probably should then you're not going to be energy starved until they're fairly close to dying and by then they won't be alive long enough to really get the full damage out of a Bear Thrash. It just doesn't really come into play at all this tier.
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Re: Feral Rotation & DPS help

Postby raffy » Tue May 07, 2013 4:16 pm

Big problem with Bear is that a Rune proc during Bear would wasted (since it would be crit or haste.)

25s might be different (I don't know how long it takes to kill the bats) but here is my last 10s parse:
http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-y6ykd ... 921&e=7336

I felt like I was near energy capped a lot (not sure how to show lost energy) with chain ooc procs and in general, it is hard to dump energy with Mangle and no bats to AoE.

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Re: Feral Rotation & DPS help

Postby Cetlysm » Tue May 07, 2013 5:16 pm

DoC does work for the bear thrash right and it should be better than using the 2nd DoC stack on a swipe? assuming the targets don't die.
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Re: Feral Rotation & DPS help

Postby aggixx » Tue May 07, 2013 5:26 pm

Believe so, yes.
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Re: Feral Rotation & DPS help

Postby Sindros » Wed May 15, 2013 4:04 pm

Vami wrote:Use Mangle to get combopoints unless you're flooding with energy or get a CC proc (then Shred).


I didn't realize that Shred was no longer the main cp generator. Is the 5 energy for 20% more damage versus Mangle really not worth it?

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Re: Feral Rotation & DPS help

Postby aggixx » Wed May 15, 2013 5:46 pm

Shred does 5% more damage per energy than Mangle, but Mangle generates 12.5% more combo points per energy. The difference between the two is very very small but the sims say mangle is better.

In practice the difference is small enough that you would never really be able to prove/disprove which is more effective.
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Re: Feral Rotation & DPS help

Postby feralminded » Thu May 16, 2013 3:09 pm

aggixx wrote:Shred does 5% more damage per energy than Mangle, but Mangle generates 12.5% more combo points per energy. The difference between the two is very very small but the sims say mangle is better.

In practice the difference is small enough that you would never really be able to prove/disprove which is more effective.


While this is certainly true I for one appreciate the higher CP generation as it makes it easier to stabilize the rotation when having to move or switch targets and makes keeping Thrash up easier. I'm not implying its strictly better (even though sims currently agree), but outside of theory it definitely feels better. It's also nice not having to so strictly worry about position. I of course still stand out of parry range but on fiddly bosses (Qon is a good example) it's quite nice to just spam the button with impunity.
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Re: Feral Rotation & DPS help

Postby Sindros » Sun May 19, 2013 6:23 pm

Thanks for the explanation, guys. The last few raid nights I used mangle when I didn't have a ton of extra energy and it made the rotation much easier, especially with Rune.

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