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Update: better DPS Numbers?

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Update: better DPS Numbers?

Postby TagTheDruid » Tue May 07, 2013 9:36 am

So I've been shaking the cobwebs off my dps spec after tankin in ToT, and I come to realize that my dps is a lot lower than I feel it should be.

I'm rocking DoC, and just got a couple upgrades this week. Now, after reading through the forums it seems like my lack of keeping Thrash on the target as a cat might be hurting my dps a touch, but it seems like near that 520 iL I should be up higher than I am.
(no Rune right now, so I'm mastery-full as well)

Heroic Jin Rokh last week http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-2w7b7k4s8rfhjzzj/sum/damageDone/?s=3712&e=4044
Lei Shen (4/28) http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-81y72j9n0bs37r4y/sum/damageDone/?s=4111&e=4648

Any ideas as to what I'm doing wrong?
Last edited by TagTheDruid on Thu May 16, 2013 4:32 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Unsatisfying DPS Numbers

Postby Dysheki » Tue May 07, 2013 2:33 pm

I don't have a huge amount of time to look over your logs, but one thing that popped out at me for Jin'rokh is you have a really weak rip up for execute time (your second weakest rip of the fight) and you extend it for nearly 2 minutes with FB. Never be afraid to override a weak rip with a stronger while under BitW because you will gain damage over the FB use with the extra damage from ticks. For this fight it's preferable when you get very close to 25% use a pot while in the puddle (plus TF plus DoC charge). If a trinket proc is around even better.

You'd be surprised how much more damage you can squeak out using an extended Super Rip as opposed to one extra FB.
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Re: Unsatisfying DPS Numbers

Postby TagTheDruid » Tue May 07, 2013 2:37 pm

Yeah, I didn't really realize it was weaker. Methinks I need more addons, or something that makes it easier to tell when a new rip/rake will be better than the old one.
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Re: Unsatisfying DPS Numbers

Postby Cetlysm » Tue May 07, 2013 2:56 pm

You need more thrash by looking at the jinrok kill, should aim for like 40%ish at least depending on ooc and trinket procs/adds.
For Lei shen if you want to rank higher you will need to aoe more stuff, not a good fight to track anything because of intermissions anyways.
35 DoC out of 37 predatory swiftness plus 5 NS means you wasted some PS somewhere (jinrok)
Rip needs a tiny bit more uptime, mangle more if you need to increase uptime.
And yeah you need something to track bleeds, http://fluiddruid.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=4446
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Re: Unsatisfying DPS Numbers

Postby aggixx » Tue May 07, 2013 3:18 pm

Mainly looking at your Jin'rokh log since it's a pretty straightforward fight.

Your Rip uptime is right around where it should be more or less (a couple percent shy of the sim's uptime), but one thing you could improve on is your opener. If you spam SR before the boss starts you should be able to start on the boss with around 12 seconds left on your SR which should give you plenty of time to get a Rip on him before having to do your Savage Roar refresh. That alone would get you an extra 5 seconds of uptime you wouldn't have with your opener which works out to a nice 1.5% uptime gain.

Also Dysheki made a very good point on Rip damage, overwriting a weaker Rip with a stronger one during execute range is really important for squeezing out that extra damage. You want to make sure that the damage gap is big enough that you'll gain more damage from overwriting than you would from that single Ferocious Bite, but considering how much damage Rip does that's not uncommon at all ;)

Ferocious Bite usage looks good. You're getting a lot in without it really hurting your Rip uptime. Without Thrashing the sim gets 18 Ferocious Bites in that duration (vs your 26) but that goes down to 13 in a profile that tries to maintain thrash.

Rake uptime is pretty close to perfect as well. You had 98.1% uptime and aside from a very short (like half a second) drop later from the fight, the only time you let it drop was for 2 seconds when your second Ionization was about to expire. It's not a bad idea to get in the habit of refreshing your Rake anytime you leave a target even if it's not going to immediately fall off, Rake's damage compared to a Shred or a Mangle isn't far behind so even if the chance of you saving it from falling off is low it's still probably worth doing.

Your Savage Roar uptime could use a little improving, since you can refresh it at anytime below 3 seconds without clipping the remaining duration and it only costs 25 energy there's not much reason for it to fall off for very long. You had 93% uptime but ideally you want to aim for 99% or higher. Really the only time you should have a downtime of more than a half a second or so is if Rip is expiring at the same time and you were able to just barely refresh it before the Savage Roar fell off.

Thrash uptime... mostly nonexistant as you said, of course. At the very least it's a pretty meaty gain to maintain Thrash using Omen of Clarity procs, but it's a bit larger of a gain if you go for maintaining it fulltime. The only condition really is you don't want to do anything that would noticeably impact your Rip uptime. Here's a graph of the DPS difference between the three methods for your character:
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You want to be stacking your Tiger's Fury and Berserk together whenever possible instead of using them seperately (you can't cast Tiger's Fury while Berserk is active, but you CAN cast Berserk while Tiger's Fury is active). A macro like this is your best friend for doing this:
Code: Select all
#show Berserk
/cast [form:3] 13
/cast [form:3] 10
/click [form:3] Tiger's Fury
/cast [form:3, btn:1] Incarnation
/cast [form:3] Nature's Vigil
/cast Berserking
/cast Berserk

I use mine for Bear as well hence not having the form checks on the last two lines. Also notice that the conditional on Incarnation allows you to right click the macro and pop all your cooldowns except Incarnation if you want to use your Berserk for purely AoE.

For Jin'rokh specifically you're probably better off using your first berserk on pull instead of waiting for the first pool. Having all of your procs up + your prepot will generally outweigh the 40% damage buff. This also makes it a little easier to line up a good second berserk (which it seems you did fine on).

Otherwise your cooldown usage looks good, 11 Tiger's Furys and 2 Berserks is as many as you can reasonably expect. One thing worth mentioning is using your second potion at 25% to get a really strong Rip up can outweight using it during Berserk if you can keep it rolling for the rest of the fight.

Healing Touch usage: You had a total of 37 Predatory Swiftness procs (compared to the sim's 38.2, so within RNG range) and used NS 5 times (vs the sim's 3.2). You gained a DoC damage buff a total of 35 times which means let expire/clipped 7 of your 37 PS procs (or about 20%). That's something that you should definitely try to work on a little bit. Missing one or two in a fight is reasonable because of the nature of when you want to use them, but obviously ideally you would want to miss 0. Making sure you have a very clear and well located display showing the presence and remaining duration of your PS can help a lot with this. Otherwise your PS usage and NS usage looks like exactly what I would hope to see, although I did see one PS where you used it early for presumably no reason but I'll chalk that up to just an accident ;)

Oh, and it looks like you had your Weakened Armor fall off for the last 30 seconds of the fight, but otherwise good :D
Last edited by aggixx on Tue May 07, 2013 3:42 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Unsatisfying DPS Numbers

Postby TagTheDruid » Tue May 07, 2013 3:24 pm

Point point. Went for a combination of addons that I find useful for my distracted mind.
Badkitty for the subtle trackers, with Nerien's Ovale and Elvui for dot trackers and combo points on individual targets. :)

Installing the latest version of Nerien's helped tremendously *coughhaventupdatedsinceOctobercough*


I did somewhat jump in and out of combat during some lightning balls, but I think for my uptime I really should have had SR more than I did. Also realized my folly in not using Thrash and in pretty much never using mangle.
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Re: Unsatisfying DPS Numbers

Postby TagTheDruid » Tue May 07, 2013 3:41 pm

Very very very informative. Now I get to be the good student and learn my lessons from this post! I was complacent, honestly, although this all helped very very much.

I can't wait to see how it affects my dps tonight on hJin Rokh and hopefully shut the smug face of our rogue :)

<3
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Re: Unsatisfying DPS Numbers

Postby Yriss » Tue May 07, 2013 4:46 pm

Savage roar is your biggest problem. You should NEVER put a rip or a rake without this buff
On jin rok you put (on pull) a doc rake and 2shred without this buff
And severall time you put a rake or a rip without savage roar up (perhaps some shreads too, i just checked rip/rake/savage roar for the whole fight http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-2 ... 712&e=4044 )

[21:03:16.540] Tag's Savage Roar fades from Tag
[21:03:17.531] Tag casts Rip on Jin'rokh the Breaker
[21:03:17.856] Jin'rokh the Breaker afflicted by Rip from Tag
[21:03:18.534] Tag gains Savage Roar from Tag
[21:03:18.534] Tag casts Savage Roar
[21:03:19.061] Tag Rake Jin'rokh the Breaker 100233
[21:03:19.847] Tag Rip Jin'rokh the Breaker 24875

rip without buff 24k only ! (5 combos ? it seems low)


[21:06:14.515] Tag's Savage Roar fades from Tag
[21:06:15.554] Tag Rip Jin'rokh the Breaker 51204
[21:06:16.161] Tag Rake Jin'rokh the Breaker *206480*
[21:06:17.549] Tag Rip Jin'rokh the Breaker 51204
[21:06:19.156] Tag Rake Jin'rokh the Breaker 100233
[21:06:19.546] Tag Rip Jin'rokh the Breaker *101423*
[21:06:21.020] Tag casts Rake on Jin'rokh the Breaker
[21:06:21.105] Tag Rake Jin'rokh the Breaker 35266
[21:06:21.105] Jin'rokh the Breaker's Rake is refreshed by Tag
[21:06:21.568] Tag Rip Jin'rokh the Breaker *101423*
[21:06:22.026] Tag gains Savage Roar from Tag
[21:06:22.026] Tag casts Savage Roar

Probably several shreds without SR, and a rake

[21:07:04.034] Tag's Savage Roar fades from Tag
[21:07:04.154] Tag casts Rake on Jin'rokh the Breaker
[21:07:04.154] Tag Rake Jin'rokh the Breaker 35311
[21:07:04.272] Tag Rake Jin'rokh the Breaker 27163
[21:07:04.272] Jin'rokh the Breaker's Rake is refreshed by Tag
[21:07:05.549] Tag Rip Jin'rokh the Breaker *126575*
[21:07:07.168] Tag Rake Jin'rokh the Breaker 27163
[21:07:07.526] Tag gains Savage Roar from Tag
[21:07:07.526] Tag casts Savage Roar

a rake again

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Re: Unsatisfying DPS Numbers

Postby Ardezar » Wed May 08, 2013 1:55 pm

As the above poster highlighted the major issue that needs fixing is to get SR as close to 100% uptime.

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Re: Unsatisfying DPS Numbers

Postby Sibylle » Sat May 11, 2013 5:44 am

I'm just starting again after a six-month break, so this is all very helpful for me as well. One question, is there an addon that will show how strong my Rip is, and whether or not it's worth overwriting instead of using FB?
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Re: Unsatisfying DPS Numbers

Postby Tinderhoof » Sat May 11, 2013 2:36 pm

Drood Focus is your friend. It will show the ratios for Rip, Rake and Thrash.

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Re: Unsatisfying DPS Numbers

Postby TagTheDruid » Sun May 12, 2013 9:39 pm

Love ya'lls info, man. Did Jin Rokh again that night and was runnin about 180k dps on heroic attempts. Unfortunately, silly folks and their drunk ass weaving, we had to switch to normal.

But Normal had me do this:

Buh wha? http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-zs5b7zt5lhzwrlsk/sum/damageDone/?s=5370&e=5546

Oh what a difference a daaaaaay maaaaakes. Although I know I'm nowhere near perfect, it did help oodles.

((And look.. I used Thrash))
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Re: Update: better DPS Numbers?

Postby TagTheDruid » Thu May 16, 2013 4:34 am

**updated post**

So... this week I did this:

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-zd42znt6ghx0dkhn/sum/damageDone/?s=2882&e=3250

Trying to figure out why it's still lower than it should be. I did have the 484 relic of Xuen during that, not the Bad Juju I have now.

Is it literally because I don't have RoR or a four set that my dps is so low there?
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Re: Update: better DPS Numbers?

Postby aggixx » Thu May 16, 2013 4:45 am

Well you did rank in the top 100 so it's hard to say you're doing bad. Having a Rune as well as 4p definitely would put you noticeably higher though.
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