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Druid t16 set bonuses and 5.4 PTR changes

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Re: Druid t16 set bonuses and 5.4 PTR changes

Postby Tinderhoof » Tue Aug 06, 2013 2:48 pm

You should let your rogue friend know Aggixx is right. If it turns out to be good for any Agi user they will make it so the strength proc will only proc for strength classes.

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Re: Druid t16 set bonuses and 5.4 PTR changes

Postby enigmaran » Tue Aug 06, 2013 2:49 pm

oh I know - and he does too, but until that point it might be nice. I also hope they make the new trinkets good enough to replace rune.

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Re: Druid t16 set bonuses and 5.4 PTR changes

Postby Tinderhoof » Tue Aug 06, 2013 4:14 pm

Even with the big nerf's that happened Rune will still be King in T16. Why would you want to get rid of it?

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Re: Druid t16 set bonuses and 5.4 PTR changes

Postby aggixx » Tue Aug 06, 2013 4:49 pm

Honestly I would be perfectly ok with them breaking Rune as long as the trinket that takes its place is still thought provoking. Aside from Thrash, the proc itself isn't terribly unique, and with AoC + 4p synergy being so strong feral balance would be in a very very awkward place if they allow us to have 2 trinkets and a 4p that equals out to 10% of our damage over anything else. Would probably end up meaning either that a geared feral is one of the best DPS or an undergeared feral is one of the worst, that's far from ideal.
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Re: Druid t16 set bonuses and 5.4 PTR changes

Postby Tinderhoof » Tue Aug 06, 2013 5:14 pm

Far from ideal, but it's happened before, and will continue to happen until they really sit down and take a look at our design. Has hardly changed since WotLK.

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Re: Druid t16 set bonuses and 5.4 PTR changes

Postby raffy » Tue Aug 06, 2013 5:34 pm

AoC, once we have 4p, seems to be almost a given. AoC is just too good: 21s TF and extra CPs make the rotation significantly juicier in terms of having resources available when stuff procs.

One nice thing about the Rune is that it makes gear stats irrelevant (except for ilvl.) No need to be stuck kissing the toes of the loot gods waiting from some Crit/Mastery piece to drop.

From my recent analysis, the Multistrike trinket looks interesting (up to 18% chance to proc at 580). And there might be something to the Talisman of Bloodlust (as I mentioned in the Catus thread) but it probably requires too much work, and specific gear, and will just be replaced once we get AoC.

Since we end T16 near 580 ilvl, the only trinket that has a chance of staying competitive is the Rune. And we have the option of making it stronger if we switch to secondary gems.

As Aggixx said, AoC probably drops off Garrosh, so it's not like we'll have it + 4pT16 on day 1. Rune/Charm appears to be the best with the PTR RPPM changes using live gear.

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Re: Druid t16 set bonuses and 5.4 PTR changes

Postby Yriss » Tue Aug 06, 2013 7:10 pm

AoC is a sha of pride drop, 4th boss

Weapons drop from
- immersius (trident of corrupted water, crit/expertise with blue socket)
- malkorok (halberd of inner shadows, mastery/haste with yellow socket )
- garrosh :'( (kor'kron spire of supremacy, crit/mastery with red socket)

They add loot table on the ptr

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Re: Druid t16 set bonuses and 5.4 PTR changes

Postby raffy » Tue Aug 06, 2013 7:15 pm

Oh wow, that's really good news. I think some of weapons are still expected to have a proc (re: GC tweet) so maybe Kor'kron Spire gets it.

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Re: Druid t16 set bonuses and 5.4 PTR changes

Postby Stenhaldi » Wed Aug 07, 2013 7:20 pm

Trinket changes in the latest builds:
  • Amplification nerfed to 7% at 553 (in case anyone was considering using a non-agi trinket).
  • Renataki's Soul Charm duration reduced to 10 seconds (stacking every 1 second); proc rate raised to 1.21 PPM.
  • Bad Juju duration reduced to 10 seconds; proc rate raised to 1.10 PPM.
  • Rune of Re-Origination proc rate is 1.1/(1.15^((528-ItemLevel)/15)) PPM.
  • Ticking Ebon Detonator duration reduced to 10 seconds (decrementing every .5 seconds); proc rate raised to 1.01 PPM.
  • Assurance of Consequence ICD raised to 115 seconds (from 105).
  • Haromm's Talisman (multistrike) proc rate is now 14.0% (at 553); agility proc was changed to RPPM with 0.92 PPM and a 10-second duration.
  • Sigil of Rampage (cleave) proc rate is now 3.11% (at 553); agility proc now has 15-second duration with 85-second ICD.
  • Vicious Talisman of the Shado-Pan Assault ICD raised to 115 seconds (from 105).
  • Bottle of Infinite Stars ICD raised to 55 seconds (from 45).

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Re: Druid t16 set bonuses and 5.4 PTR changes

Postby Alpheus » Wed Aug 07, 2013 8:12 pm

Stenhaldi wrote:Trinket changes in the latest builds:
  • Renataki's Soul Charm duration reduced to 10 seconds (stacking every 1 second); proc rate raised to 1.21 PPM.
  • Bad Juju duration reduced to 10 seconds; proc rate raised to 1.10 PPM.
  • Rune of Re-Origination proc rate is 1.1/(1.15^((528-ItemLevel)/15)) PPM.


Come again? This will make it even harder to line up trinkets together, not to mention on the pull. I guess they're just trying to make the previous-tier trinkets bad so they don't spill over. Can't say we weren't expecting this.
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Re: Druid t16 set bonuses and 5.4 PTR changes

Postby aggixx » Wed Aug 07, 2013 8:44 pm

I've posted a comparison including the changes from the latest build here.
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Re: Druid t16 set bonuses and 5.4 PTR changes

Postby raffy » Thu Aug 08, 2013 1:06 am

The ICD was also changed to 10sec for many of these. This is a big buff: no overlapping proc and rune goes 22sec to 10sec ICD.

I believe this matches the latest changes:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/298 ... inkets.png
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/298 ... Table6.png

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Re: Druid t16 set bonuses and 5.4 PTR changes

Postby aggixx » Thu Aug 08, 2013 2:17 am

I see the ICD as 10 sec for Rune in the trigger spell but I don't see that for any other trinkets like you have them in the picture.
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Re: Druid t16 set bonuses and 5.4 PTR changes

Postby Stenhaldi » Fri Aug 09, 2013 10:59 pm

Based on testing, Rune, Renataki's, and Ticking Ebon Detonator definitely have 10-second ICDs. Haromm's Talisman probably has a 10-second ICD but I didn't put enough time in to be sure. Didn't test Bad Juju.

Edit: Haromm's Talisman and Bad Juju also have 10-second ICDs.

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Re: Druid t16 set bonuses and 5.4 PTR changes

Postby Stenhaldi » Sat Aug 10, 2013 5:30 am

Some notes on the Multistrike proc on Haromm's Talisman.
  • Does not proc off missed/dodged/parried attacks. For blocked attacks, the proc uses damage after block.
  • Can (independently) miss and be dodged/parried/blocked.
  • Cannot (independently) crit.
  • Damage is dealt to the target that triggered the effect.
  • The following attacks can trigger physical damage Multistrike.
    • swing (autoattack)
    • Mangle
    • Shred
    • Shred!
    • Ravage!
    • Swipe
    • Ferocious Bite
    • Rake (direct and periodic)
    • Rip
    • Thrash (direct and periodic)
    • Wrath
  • Physical damage Multistrike's damage is not independently affected by armor, physical vulnerability, or any other damage multiplier.
  • The following attacks cannot trigger Multistrike at all.
    • treant swing
    • Lightning Strike (legendary meta)
    • Flurry of Xuen (legendary cloak)
    • Multistrike
    • any heal

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Re: Druid t16 set bonuses and 5.4 PTR changes

Postby Felucia » Wed Aug 14, 2013 2:24 pm

raffy wrote:The ICD was also changed to 10sec for many of these. This is a big buff: no overlapping proc and rune goes 22sec to 10sec ICD.

I believe this matches the latest changes:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/298 ... inkets.png
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/298 ... Table6.png


so i already have the best in slot trinkets for the rest of the expansion(well i have normal thunderforged rune but w/e procc is still proc)?`
great news.

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Re: Druid t16 set bonuses and 5.4 PTR changes

Postby Alpheus » Wed Aug 14, 2013 3:20 pm

Felucia wrote:
raffy wrote:The ICD was also changed to 10sec for many of these. This is a big buff: no overlapping proc and rune goes 22sec to 10sec ICD.

I believe this matches the latest changes:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/298 ... inkets.png
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/298 ... Table6.png


so i already have the best in slot trinkets for the rest of the expansion(well i have normal thunderforged rune but w/e procc is still proc)?`
great news.


Keep in mind that's in T15 gear
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Re: Druid t16 set bonuses and 5.4 PTR changes

Postby Whitepaw » Mon Aug 19, 2013 2:07 am

So, GC saying on 9th of August:
No major new Feral changes in the blog. ATM we also think their damage in 5.4 is also fine. (Source)


...and that's basically where we stand now? I don't see him answering Tinder's follow up tweet.

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Re: Druid t16 set bonuses and 5.4 PTR changes

Postby Tinderhoof » Mon Aug 19, 2013 3:56 am

After that I sent a message to Lore and he said they would give us a second look (8/12 I think). While there is still a little hope, it's fading quickly.

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Re: Druid t16 set bonuses and 5.4 PTR changes

Postby Oceansalt » Mon Aug 19, 2013 9:41 am

aggixx wrote:What do you mean for t16 in 5.3? Doesn't that contradict itself?

In the tests raffy and I have done so far DoC is ahead by 3% in 5.4 (T16N).



Whitepaw wrote:So, GC saying on 9th of August:
No major new Feral changes in the blog. ATM we also think their damage in 5.4 is also fine. (Source)


...and that's basically where we stand now? I don't see him answering Tinder's follow up tweet.


Umm.. sorry to interrupt but right now I don't see such a big nerf in it?
Did I miss something? The only "bad idea" behind that for me is that we cannot use HT on command anymore.
But I am not clearly sure if the damage is still stronger. Please don't get me wrong. I did read the PTR-notes and
cannot see such a big nerf. We still can choose between two other heals. Maybe they aren't that great but for us
they still are viable.

Can anyone explain this to me? :(

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Re: Druid t16 set bonuses and 5.4 PTR changes

Postby Vami » Mon Aug 19, 2013 9:48 am

Removing NS alone lowers DoC dps below HotW. Or that's the latest info I've read, can't remember the thread, though.

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Re: Druid t16 set bonuses and 5.4 PTR changes

Postby Paloro » Mon Aug 19, 2013 10:58 am

Oceansalt wrote:
Umm.. sorry to interrupt but right now I don't see such a big nerf in it?
Did I miss something? The only "bad idea" behind that for me is that we cannot use HT on command anymore.
But I am not clearly sure if the damage is still stronger. Please don't get me wrong. I did read the PTR-notes and
cannot see such a big nerf. We still can choose between two other heals. Maybe they aren't that great but for us
they still are viable.

Can anyone explain this to me? :(


By removing NS, we will not be able to have a DoC buffed Rip during our opener. While it doesn't seem all that bad, it really hurts us in the time that a trinket procs and we had just used a PS proc elsewhere. Additionally, we lose out on 2 charges of DoC per minute and we are now forced to use a PS proc for our instant BR instead of NS.

The generalization of feelings is that originally Blizzard said they wanted to create more utility with the talent and less clunkyness. They ended up removing utility and making it more clunky.
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Re: Druid t16 set bonuses and 5.4 PTR changes

Postby Whitepaw » Tue Aug 20, 2013 10:58 am

I've seen it calculated as a 10% dps nerf to DoC.

That's what's wrong.

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Re: Druid t16 set bonuses and 5.4 PTR changes

Postby Alpheus » Tue Aug 20, 2013 11:15 am

Whitepaw wrote:I've seen it calculated as a 10% dps nerf to DoC.

That's what's wrong.


Source to sim please.
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Re: Druid t16 set bonuses and 5.4 PTR changes

Postby Tinderhoof » Tue Aug 20, 2013 3:08 pm

LORE
#386 - 2013/08/20 06:01:00 PM As an update to this, as part of our continued balancing, we're going to increase the "time since last proc" reset on boss pulls to 120 seconds.

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/9573547577?page=20#386

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