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Druid t16 set bonuses and 5.4 PTR changes

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Re: Druid t16 set bonuses and 5.4 PTR changes

Postby aggixx » Wed Aug 28, 2013 4:04 pm

Oceansalt wrote:And tbh right now I would think of binding FoN to Rake or Shred. Maybe that would be a waste but I don't know if their Rake counts as one Rake if you got more than one Treant or if it counts for every single Treant? If every Treant got it's own Rake then binding it to a makro doesn't seem that bad to me.
But maybe I'm just thinking too much right now.

If you're just going to bind it to a button you hit all the time you're probably better of playing SotF (although exact numbers are still to come, if that turns out to be the case you'll hear about it).
raffy wrote:I tested DoC+FoN, my gear, swap Rune for Renataki:
Rune: 263.8K vs. NoRune: 250.1K

I think he meant how FoN and SotF compare w/o Rune ;)

Keep in mind that they do also scale with AP, it's very possible to pool the charges and use them during agility procs if you don't have a Rune, and it's very possible that the otherwise increased scaling caused by your mastery affecting their damage could make them very viable with or without Rune.

A lot depends on how much damage their Rake does relative to their melee attacks, that will determine how well they scale with mastery (relative to how they scale with the other stats).
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Re: Druid t16 set bonuses and 5.4 PTR changes

Postby aggixx » Wed Aug 28, 2013 4:21 pm

I just want to say that my comparison in this post does not account for the healing -> damage conversion of the active effect of Nature's Vigil. That alone likely yields at least 1-2k DPS for the profile in question and would close the gap between NV and HotW pretty handily. That does of course require you to use your PS procs (and perhaps even take Ysera's Gift) whenever possible to get that damage.
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Re: Druid t16 set bonuses and 5.4 PTR changes

Postby raffy » Thu Aug 29, 2013 2:04 am

Treant Rake = 1/3 Cat Rake === RazorMod * (99 + 0.3 * AP) / 3

They seem to reflect our mastery instantly, so if you FoN immediately after a Rune proc, so you still get the correct damage, rather than needing to wait a few seconds. Near of the end of a Rune proc is best, since they'll mimic your Haste/Crit once Rune fades.
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Re: Druid t16 set bonuses and 5.4 PTR changes

Postby Stenhaldi » Thu Aug 29, 2013 4:22 am

Treant swing: 2189 + 1/7*ap damage per (2 sec)/(1+haste) [mitigated by armor]

Treant rake: 37 + 0.0999*ap damage per 3 sec for 15 sec [scales with mastery and snapshots on cast]

Treant casts rake when it's summoned only. Rakes from separate treants do stack, even though they only show as a single debuff.

And yeah, going to want to cast at the end of a Re-Origination proc so that the treant's melee attacks aren't gimped by the proc.

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Re: Druid t16 set bonuses and 5.4 PTR changes

Postby baver » Thu Aug 29, 2013 10:15 am

Do they snapshot haste to? And how much haste would be the milestone for them to get one extra attack befor they despawn?

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Re: Druid t16 set bonuses and 5.4 PTR changes

Postby Tremnen » Thu Aug 29, 2013 11:38 am

i appears the treants dont snap shot at all but the Rake they put out does snap shot. Good thing is they only cast rake once and when they are initially casted so try and spam them all out JUST when rune is about to wear off.

i have almost no experience with the treeants (because of how bad they have been and I don't PVP or challenge mode) but are they on the GC? and if not how big of a DPS gain are we talking for using them?

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Re: Druid t16 set bonuses and 5.4 PTR changes

Postby Tinderhoof » Thu Aug 29, 2013 11:51 am

Some thing to be aware of. The trees are dumb as hell and love to attack from the front. Because the first thing they cast is Rake it can be parried and never get applied. Its not super common but it does happen enough be be really annoying.

Edit: This happens much more frequently on bosses that are moving or out of your melee range.

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Re: Druid t16 set bonuses and 5.4 PTR changes

Postby AsgardFM » Thu Aug 29, 2013 12:52 pm

Something to check on (can't myself as not infront of WoW) regarding the button mashing at the end of Rune procs is just a simple macro.

/cast Force of Nature
/cast Force of Nature
/cast Force of Nature

As FoN is not on the GCD would it be possible to bring them all out in one button press?

Also, how much of a difference is losing SotF likely to make to energy regen? I see it only being a good thing during Berserk but how about the rest of the time?

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Re: Druid t16 set bonuses and 5.4 PTR changes

Postby raffy » Thu Aug 29, 2013 4:44 pm

While off the GCD, FoN has a 0.5sec cooldown so you can't macro 3-in-1.
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Re: Druid t16 set bonuses and 5.4 PTR changes

Postby Stenhaldi » Thu Aug 29, 2013 5:54 pm

Pretty sure there's no cooldown. I'm able to macro 2 in 1 but not 3 in 1. Spamming the key summons them all pretty much instantly.

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Re: Druid t16 set bonuses and 5.4 PTR changes

Postby aggixx » Thu Aug 29, 2013 6:06 pm

I collected some data on how fast they rake after you summon them, it ranged from 0.25 to 0.75 seconds (with a few outliers at <0.1 and 0.8 seconds) with the average being around a half a second. So in general I would say you want to start spawning them with 1 second left on your procs and maybe tack a tiny extra bit of time on for each charge you have (because it does take at least a couple tenths of a second to get them all off).

Copied from my post at MMO-C:
Here's a log if anyone's interested. ~7 minutes of combat with flask/food as HotW/FoN (Treants are pets so they don't show up in my damage, you have to click the arrow next to my name on the log I linked):
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-thu8dexoylpkc6f4/sum/damageDone/

Treants were 7.73% of my damage and Rake ticked a total of 144 times for an average of 33,170 damage per tick. During Rune I dumped my charges (waiting for procs inside the Rune when feasible) and outside of Rune procs I banked charges, waiting until I was about to hit 3 before spending one.

I'm not raid buffed in this log (which means I'm missing mastery).
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Re: Druid t16 set bonuses and 5.4 PTR changes

Postby Alpheus » Thu Aug 29, 2013 6:35 pm

aggixx wrote:I collected some data on how fast they rake after you summon them, it ranged from 0.25 to 0.75 seconds (with a few outliers at <0.1 and 0.8 seconds) with the average being around a half a second. So in general I would say you want to start spawning them with 1 second left on your procs and maybe tack a tiny extra bit of time on for each charge you have (because it does take at least a couple tenths of a second to get them all off).


Ugh, does this feel "clunky" to anyone else?
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Re: Druid t16 set bonuses and 5.4 PTR changes

Postby Tinderhoof » Thu Aug 29, 2013 6:41 pm

clunk·y [ klúngkee ]

1.awkwardly designed: awkwardly designed or made
2.feral rotation

Synonyms: chunky, heavy, solid, bulky, awkward, DoC, unwieldy, clumpy

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Re: Druid t16 set bonuses and 5.4 PTR changes

Postby raffy » Thu Aug 29, 2013 7:22 pm

raffy wrote:While off the GCD, FoN has a 0.5sec cooldown so you can't macro 3-in-1.
Sigh, where the heck did I get this from? I spent all this time adding a special case for this in Catus. I guess I'll just drop it down to the reaction time or the GCD delay time.
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Re: Druid t16 set bonuses and 5.4 PTR changes

Postby raffy » Thu Aug 29, 2013 8:07 pm

Aggixx, what kind of HT priority did you choose for HT during NV?
Should the HT action also be using react?

If I stick it at the bottom, I don't get many casts because it's busy pooling energy. Maybe high priority but only at low energy?
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Re: Druid t16 set bonuses and 5.4 PTR changes

Postby Alpheus » Thu Aug 29, 2013 8:29 pm

raffy wrote:Aggixx, what kind of HT priority did you choose for HT during NV?
Should the HT action also be using react?

If I stick it at the bottom, I don't get many casts because it's busy pooling energy. Maybe high priority but only at low energy?


Hrm, well NV will act as a mini-DoC, meaning that you will probably be re-rolling some of your bleeds. Every 2nd NV will also sync with berserk and all NV's are synced with TF (at least until you pick up AoC). Which means the rip/rake clip logic should probably have higher priority along with shred/finisher during berserk, so on a whim I'd say the best place to put it at the top of the filler list and perhaps another one above "pool 50 energy for FB"-line. Will experiment a bit with this myself once I get my hands on a working version of SimC
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Re: Druid t16 set bonuses and 5.4 PTR changes

Postby aggixx » Thu Aug 29, 2013 8:47 pm

I haven't inserted it into the priority list at all, I only tried putting at the bottom and it ended up casting exactly 0 times per iteration.

One thing the ovale script does is there's a function thats called during pool where if the amount of time to pool is >= 1 GCD then it will go through that list of actions until there's no longer 1 GCD of time left, it would be appropriate to put HT there, as well as at the bottom of the list. Other things that would typically be in that list would be Faerie Fire maintenance or Spirit Wolves.
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Re: Druid t16 set bonuses and 5.4 PTR changes

Postby raffy » Thu Aug 29, 2013 8:53 pm

OK, I just tried it above the lower pool_resource+Thrash, and it results in about 0.5% of my damage.

Also, can anyone confirm the Legendary cloak RPPM? I recall seeing a higher number than I expected, previous it was: 1.62 * 1.3 = 2.1. Wowhead is showing 2.26. I recall seeing like 2.3 in the tooltip, but I can't logon atm.
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Re: Druid t16 set bonuses and 5.4 PTR changes

Postby Stenhaldi » Thu Aug 29, 2013 9:07 pm

raffy wrote:Also, can anyone confirm the Legendary cloak RPPM? I recall seeing a higher number than I expected, previous it was: 1.62 * 1.3 = 2.1. Wowhead is showing 2.26. I recall seeing like 2.3 in the tooltip, but I can't logon atm.

I'll get some data tonight if the PTR remains up. Actually gathered 5 hours of data the other week, but then they changed the proc rate.

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Re: Druid t16 set bonuses and 5.4 PTR changes

Postby Stenhaldi » Fri Aug 30, 2013 2:31 pm

Results from a 6-hour run with 2.33% haste.

Fen-Yu
  • Assume 2.26 base PPM (2.3127 PPM after haste), 3 second ICD
  • Mean proc interval
    • Prediction: 23.0 sec (continuum approximation)
    • Measured: 23.6 ± 0.6 sec
  • Histogram:
    Spoiler: show
    Red line shows continuum approximation.
    Error bars are approximate.
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Haromm's Talisman
  • Assume 0.92 PPM, 10 second ICD
  • Mean proc interval
    • Prediction: 57.7 sec (continuum approximation)
    • Measured: 60.7 ± 2.4 sec
  • Histogram:
    Spoiler: show
    Red line shows continuum approximation.
    Error bars are approximate.
    Image

Ticking Ebon Detonator
  • Assume 1.00 PPM, 10 second ICD
  • Mean proc interval
    • Prediction: 53.1 sec (continuum approximation)
    • Measured: 54.7 ± 2.1 sec
  • Histogram:
    Spoiler: show
    Red line shows continuum approximation.
    Error bars are approximate.
    Image

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Re: Druid t16 set bonuses and 5.4 PTR changes

Postby raffy » Fri Aug 30, 2013 5:52 pm

Thanks Stenhaldi. I'm also curious about Multistrike/Cleave proc triggers for meta proc, cloak proc, NV heal->dmg, and any other odd sources.
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Re: Druid t16 set bonuses and 5.4 PTR changes

Postby aggixx » Fri Aug 30, 2013 8:50 pm

You mean whether Multistrike procs off of those things or not?
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Re: Druid t16 set bonuses and 5.4 PTR changes

Postby raffy » Fri Aug 30, 2013 9:02 pm

aggixx wrote:You mean whether Multistrike procs off of those things or not?

Yeah, can a HT under NV proc Multistrike/Cleave? etc...

Is there a way to test for a piece of gear in simc? Like "gear.rune_of_reorigination.equipped" or something? I need a non-Rune trigger for FoN.
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Re: Druid t16 set bonuses and 5.4 PTR changes

Postby aggixx » Fri Aug 30, 2013 9:10 pm

Neither NV damage nor Lightning Strike can multistrike. The cloak probably can't either but I don't have one so I can't test.

And no, I don't believe there is a APL conditional for gear in SimC.
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Re: Druid t16 set bonuses and 5.4 PTR changes

Postby Stenhaldi » Fri Aug 30, 2013 9:51 pm

Cloak also doesn't proc multistrike, or at least it couldn't when I tested it. This was the list I constructed after some rather tedious combat log analysis a few weeks ago.

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