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Re: New Blizzard Topic

Postby aggixx » Fri Jul 26, 2013 7:45 am

It doesn't lower Incarnation. I think the only talents it lowers is Avatar/Bloodbath/Stormbolt for Warriors.

And even if it did it probably wouldn't end up anywhere close, just because you're forced to not use Rune and Rune scales so well.
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Re: New Blizzard Topic

Postby Stenhaldi » Fri Jul 26, 2013 3:15 pm

The cooldown trinket affects Tiger's Fury, Berserk, Stampeding Roar, Dash, Barkskin, and Survival Instincts.

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Re: New Blizzard Topic

Postby Alpheus » Mon Aug 05, 2013 8:24 pm

Is this going anywhere? There haven't been any feral updates for almost 4 builds now. They're about to finish heroic 10man testing and after a couple weeks of 25mans they'll finalize changes and prepare for launch. Is the scrapping of NS really going to be the only difference?

We've been so volatile with haste/RoRo changes in the past, not to mention fragile multi-target boss mechanics and set bonuses, clearly they're not gonna chicken out cause we boycotted the DoC changes. I just hope we don't get ignored and then band-aided with hotfixes 5 weeks after 5.4 hits.
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Re: New Blizzard Topic

Postby raffy » Mon Aug 05, 2013 9:02 pm

Numbers still haven't been balanced, so there is still plenty of time for DPS changes.

I'm disappointed that mechanically DoC is considered fine utility-wise as +20% buff to HT. I understand the issues/concerns with NS, but it still feels like a bad change. I'd much prefer a longer CD (2mins) or making the +50% effect only apply to teammates and getting it baseline. It's a shame PS can't be used to throw an instant-Wrath, then we could Wrath-weave. It would be nice if PS became undispellable too. Maybe that's the proper way to buff DoC, allow us to use Wrath to gain DoC, in addition to HT.

Currently, we're sitting at ~10% DPS loss from live, in same gear w/DoC in PvE. The RPPM changes have the trinket ilvls out of order (530 VP w/excess hit > 549 Juju with 2550/2550) so I expect more changes. I remember (during 5.3 PTR) when the best trinket pair was VP+VP (before it was unique) because it offered almost guaranteed alignment.

I'm not sure what numbers would be necessary to make NV good either, but that should be on the table too. I've never used NV as Cat (other than on a Dummy). I've never used it as Bear either.

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Re: New Blizzard Topic

Postby Alpheus » Mon Aug 05, 2013 9:17 pm

raffy wrote:Numbers still haven't been balanced, so there is still plenty of time for DPS changes.

I'm disappointed that mechanically DoC is considered fine utility-wise as +20% buff to HT. I understand the issues/concerns with NS, but it still feels like a bad change. I'd much prefer a longer CD (2mins) or making the +50% effect only apply to teammates and getting it baseline. It's a shame PS can't be used to throw an instant-Wrath, then we could Wrath-weave. It would be nice if PS became undispellable too.

Currently, we're sitting at ~10% DPS loss from live, in same gear w/DoC in PvE. The RPPM changes have the trinket ilvls out of order (530 VP w/excess hit > 549 Juju with 2550/2550) so I expect more changes. I remember (during 5.3 PTR) when the best trinket pair was VP+VP (before it was unique) because it offered almost guaranteed alignment.

I'm not sure what numbers would be necessary to make NV good either, but that should be on the table too. I've never used NV as Cat (other than on a Dummy). I've never used it as Bear either.


There's a loot of room for late-tier and even baseline utility improvements, from aoe heals, bubbles, perhaps some sort of raid wall or bear/wrath-weaving, ... As far as I can tell from previous expansion, feral druids have always had issues with utility and late-tier scaling. It's as if core dps classes (ie. the ones that were dps during vanila) have some sort of holy grail check list which, if you stick to it, you'll always get a well-balanced, scaling class no matter how big of an overhaul you're making. This is something that's lacking for feral druids. This late into the expansion the problem is always "feral/guardian scaling is fucked and we designed a couple boss mechanics they can't handle well". The answer mostly tends to be a conservative "lets up damage/hp by 10%" and when the new expansion hits, the original problems aren't addressed.

DoC is broken, lets face it. It's a pure dps talent which requires anti-shifting macros, healing touch and one or several proc trackers which aren't handled by the default UI (like Maul/OoC is). The same goes for HotW without NS. It basically gives ferals and bears zero utility outside of hardcasting tranq and I'm ignoring the 6% extra stats thing because, lets face it, it was one of those gimmicky bandaids they added to HotW back in 5.0 to make it more appealing compared to DoC.

Other classes have performance-increasing talents which are paired with utility (rogues and mages are a good example) but they never redefine how a spec is played (not as much as DoC and HotW). If anything, now that NS seems to be cock-blocked until PvP abilities and CC's are overhauled next expansion (like always), I'd rather see they remove DoC and HotW completely, make DoC's extra damage baseline and add a talent for wrath-weaving (e.g. like shuriken toss) and another for handling large AoE packs. Resto DoC already covers such utility and bears would benefit from it as well (wrath-weaving during downtime for extra rage (?) and another talent which would make aoe dps or aoe damage reduction easier). If bosses are single-target, then I suppose NV could be used with some extra healing to substitue for the aoe healing DoC idea (it could use a healing boost though).
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Re: New Blizzard Topic

Postby Whitepaw » Tue Aug 06, 2013 3:18 am

DoC is broken, lets face it. It's a pure dps talent which requires anti-shifting macros, healing touch and one or several proc trackers which aren't handled by the default UI (like Maul/OoC is).


No, it's not broken - and it doesn't 'require' anti-shifting macros. It is nice to have a proc-tracker, but the UI does inform you when PS is up. It's a very ingenious talent that brings a LOT of utility together with PS. It has saved me on countless occassions.

The idea behind HotW is really awesome as well, but I do agree that the removal of NS will detract from HotW.

In fact, a lot of end-game play for a Feral hinges on NS, by design. So I agree with Raffy, the removal of NS feels like a bad change.

The reason it is a bad change is because it actually breaks a very elaborate and balanced design, meant to give Ferals competitive and viable dps, while adding to our survivability and utility. You can't just remove one of the essentiel gear coqs of the intended design and then say "Nothing to see, move along!". It's like deliberately removing vital parts of your car engine and then wondering what went wrong when it won't go past the 40 km/h mark.

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Re: New Blizzard Topic

Postby Alpheus » Tue Aug 06, 2013 4:14 am

Whitepaw wrote:
DoC is broken, lets face it. It's a pure dps talent which requires anti-shifting macros, healing touch and one or several proc trackers which aren't handled by the default UI (like Maul/OoC is).


No, it's not broken - and it doesn't 'require' anti-shifting macros. It is nice to have a proc-tracker, but the UI does inform you when PS is up. It's a very ingenious talent that brings a LOT of utility together with PS. It has saved me on countless occassions.

The idea behind HotW is really awesome as well, but I do agree that the removal of NS will detract from HotW.

In fact, a lot of end-game play for a Feral hinges on NS, by design. So I agree with Raffy, the removal of NS feels like a bad change.

The reason it is a bad change is because it actually breaks a very elaborate and balanced design, meant to give Ferals competitive and viable dps, while adding to our survivability and utility. You can't just remove one of the essentiel gear coqs of the intended design and then say "Nothing to see, move along!". It's like deliberately removing vital parts of your car engine and then wondering what went wrong when it won't go past the 40 km/h mark.


Sometimes you have to remove something to make design changes. Not to say the lack of NS in its current form is in any way fine, but I agree that T6 talents should NOT rely on having another T2 talent selected. This is probably the primary reason why this was change (although I'm baffled why we didn't get Glyph of Savage Roar and Cat Form made baseline also.... oh well). Don't be mistaken about DoC's utility though, it has virtually none and it will be even less so in 5.4.

The problem with our entire tier 6 is that from the beginning it was designed in such a way that a Feral should always take DoC, that a guardian will always take HotW or Nature's Vigil and that a Resto/Balance will stick to Nature's Vigil. Obviously this turned out to be a problem because it didn't allow for any disparity within specs. Even more so, HotW has had the "unintended" consequence that it was superior to DPS with (wrath spam on Feng, hurricane aoe on Elegon, Feng HC) as a kitty and required the acquisition of a caster weapon. Coefficients got nerfed, some stats were added before it went live to make it more viable.

The way they're fixing it now is that EVERY talent does something different based on your spec, which is utter nonsense. If an ability or talent is so badly designed that it is entirely useless for a certain spec and requires complete rewording and mechanical changes, then it should be scrapped for something else. HotW is a bit ingenious in this regard because THAT is actually what it does primarily, but the PTR DoC is rubbish.

It's the same deal with Soul of the Forest, Force of Nature, Incarnation and now Dream of Cenarius. We've come to a point where we not only have 6 tiers of 3 talents each. But every talent does 3-4 different things based on what spec/form you're in. Put on top of this the aforementioned macro requirements (while you may not agree, it is still likely you will shift out while attempting to proc DoC without it. This might not be crucial if you're an LFR/dungeon hero, but it is entirely dangerous on lagged bloodlust pulls like heroic lei shen and ra-den). Not to mention there's 2 different Thrashes and some kitties don't even know it's a dps increase to use for single target purposes.

TL;DR So back on track, while it looks like a PvP change mostly, I'm prepared to give Blizzard the benefit of doubt in regard of the removal of NS and I hope they come up with a less complex of dealing with tier 4 and tier 6 for all druids specs. Right now it's a complete clusterfuck with entirely different mechanics based on spec with interlocking dependencies between Tier 2 and 6 and it's getting worse and worse every patch.

I'm starting to think Displacer Beast and Nature's Vigil are the best-designed talents this expansion and it's sad to see them hardly being used.
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Re: New Blizzard Topic

Postby Whitepaw » Tue Aug 06, 2013 7:55 am

This might not be crucial if you're an LFR/dungeon hero


Drop the condescending tone - it degrades your arguments instead of reinforcing them.

Don't be mistaken about DoC's utility though, it has virtually none and it will be even less so in 5.4.


Yes, mostly because they will nerf the healing part - so in the 'balancing' of 'utility' (which today also encompasses what is known as 'hybrid healing'), Blizzard has singled out Ferals. However, right now it allows me to heal myself or others for non-trivial amounts and align DoC damage charges with CD's and trinket procs/on-use effects. I'd say I get good mileage out of DoC and it makes the Feral gameplay fun.

What you are describing is basically the fallout of the old druid discussion: Should we be hybrids with a lower output in each role or specialised as tank, healer or dps? As it stands now, Blizzard has chosen the latter option and has even added the Guardian spec. We are specialised to the point where we are almost not capable to perform any non-trivial actions outside of our specialisation. However, all druid specs are viable and competitive, so we actually do get raid spots. Mission accomplished, all specs raid and PvP viable and the old 'Go resto or GTFO of my raid' is dead. After spending most of Vanilla as a Feral, trying to avoid respeccing to resto, I really like the viability of Feral right now.

But a lot of players voiced concern about this approach and it's lack of 'hybridity' and utility. So Blizzard made a lot of talents to enhance a playstyle with damage and healing weaved together. However, the specs are still there.

And so, how would you avoid both the 'Only one talent per tier for each spec is viable' and the 'Each talent performs differently according to spec' at the same time? I mean, the talents work together with abilities (which are different for each spec), ressources (which are again different for each spec) and roles (which are also different for each spec). If the first option is chosen, then you get a lot of mandatory talents for each spec, in the latter you might have some confusion about what the talent will do if you change form or spec.

I think the approach that Blizzard is now taking - that the effect of some of the talents change based on spec or form - is the best solution. This was the way Wild Charge was designed from the start, and that talent is actually one of the best designed talents in the game imo.

Regarding Nature's Swiftness and the dependencies between tier 2 and 6; well yes, there is a dependency - but that's not a bad thing imo. The real problem with NS is not these dependencies - no, the real problem is that NS is just incredibly strong! Not only does it allow a Feral/Guardian to cast a lot of really cool spells while in form - it also has a really large healing coefficient.

The solution to this could be:
- Don't remove it, but nerf the extra healing.
- Remove it and allow Ferals/Guardians to cast spells while in form.

Blizzard has chosen the latter, but with a proc element. I dislike that choice. I want to be able to decide for myself when and where I want to cast these spells (Healing Touch, Entangling Roots, Rebirth or Cyclone) - at least once a minute as per NS CD. Why? Because a Feral/Guardian shifts OUT OF form when casting these spells if not with some kind of proc. This disadvantage is quite unique. In fact, no other hybrid specs have it, not even moonkins (when glyphed).

'Ah, but then we can just let Feral/Guardian cast these healing/CC/ressurrection spells in form, with no procs!'. Yep, but - unlike other hybrid specs - we also change our ressource system. So, a HT for 20 energy or rage? And would a Guardian get pushbacks if doing this while tanking? If instant-cast, would it be OP? If you have these spells on a CD (like Cyclone is at present for Feral), it would just be more confusing.

Considering some of the other options, I think Nature's Swiftness as a talent is the most elegant solution. It allows the player to decide if and when to use the talent and it doesn't muddle with a lot of mechanics in cat or bear form. It's extra healing might be OP - ok, nerf that. But keep the talent just like it is right now.

Now, instead of this elegant design, we become heavily proc-dependent. As a Feral, my dps if using DoC will now depend completely on my 8 sec PS proc. Originally, this proc was 15 sec, which is much more sensible. That was changed because of the 'Rip - PS proc - build 5 combo points - Cyclone - pool energy - FB when taget gets out of Cyclone' combo. No other proc in the game is that short - I mean, even RoR proc is 10 seconds. If you look at druids, the OoC proc is 15 sec. If you look at shaman, maelstrom is 30 sec and will refresh periodically when hitting a target. Paladins? Well, Holy Power refreshes as well. But our proc is still restricted to 8 seconds.

Besides being obnoxious at low gear levels, it also restricts it's usage a lot. You only have an 8 second window to find that target you need to resurrect; you can't wait for that aoe ability to pass and THEN use a PS proc to heal yourself or someone else and so forth.

In short, it's crap design and that leads to less fun gameplay.

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Re: New Blizzard Topic

Postby Alpheus » Tue Aug 06, 2013 8:22 am

Whitepaw wrote:Drop the condescending tone - it degrades your arguments instead of reinforcing them.


Sorry.

Yes, mostly because they will nerf the healing part - so in the 'balancing' of 'utility' (which today also encompasses what is known as 'hybrid healing'), Blizzard has singled out Ferals. However, right now it allows me to heal myself or others for non-trivial amounts and align DoC damage charges with CD's and trinket procs/on-use effects. I'd say I get good mileage out of DoC and it makes the Feral gameplay fun.


As Aggix has pointed out on the US forums, what allows you to heal others is Predatory Swiftness, not DoC. DoC only makes your heals a bit stronger. So the "utility" of DoC is virtually nil.

Regarding Nature's Swiftness and the dependencies between tier 2 and 6; well yes, there is a dependency - but that's not a bad thing imo. The real problem with NS is not these dependencies - no, the real problem is that NS is just incredibly strong! Not only does it allow a Feral/Guardian to cast a lot of really cool spells while in form - it also has a really large healing coefficient.

The solution to this could be:
- Don't remove it, but nerf the extra healing.
- Remove it and allow Ferals/Guardians to cast spells while in form.


You forget that there's a third solution: replace it with something new. I agree, it's too powerful. That's why it should be removed (from talent choices). If a talent "choice" is so powerful that its roots reach from T2 up to T6 across all specs and roles then it should be made baseline (like it did) and replaced with something more versatile. The baseline step was made partially, ferals and guardians got left out, possibly 'cause they have a better solution in mind. It got replaced with something utterly shit (and incredibly tedious for AFKing in shrine) ... well this I can't really sympathize with.

Having to choose between NS and Renewal/CW in T2 (on live) is like having to choose between Thrash and Hibernate as a feral. This is not the role of talents.

As for casting in forms. I don't believe we should be required to take a talent for casting Rebirth. Rebirth should be castable in all forms, period. It's not performance or personal utility, it's RAID UTILITY. It's like forcing a hunter to feign death and drop combat to rebuff his 5/10min buffs midfight. As for Cyclone and Roots. I couldn't care less, really. All PvE CC requirements are covered pretty much by tier 5 and I don't PvP enough to have any relevant input on this; some cry it's too OP, some cry because it got nerfed.

Considering some of the other options, I think Nature's Swiftness as a talent is the most elegant solution. It allows the player to decide if and when to use the talent and it doesn't muddle with a lot of mechanics in cat or bear form. It's extra healing might be OP - ok, nerf that. But keep the talent just like it is right now.


Again, I agree it is an elegant and well-designed ability. That is exactly why it should be baseline for druids and I support Blizzard in this decision.
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Re: New Blizzard Topic

Postby Whitepaw » Tue Aug 06, 2013 9:01 am

As Aggix has pointed out on the US forums, what allows you to heal others is Predatory Swiftness, not DoC. DoC only makes your heals a bit stronger. So the "utility" of DoC is virtually nil.


Not quite - PS allows me to cast a Nature spell instantly and in form. DoC is what buffs the healing spells cast from trivial to non-trivial - and yes, I use the DoC charge to heal myself with Rejuvenation. Together with the cat glyph and me shifting back into cat, Rejuvenation goes from 'Meh' to 'Rather HoT!' 8-) I can even do a PS+HT, then a Thrash (don't even need to hit anything with it) and then a Rejuv with a new DoC healing charge.

It got replaced with something utterly shit (and incredibly tedious for AFKing in shrine) ... well this I can't really sympathize with.


I thought so too - but the testers on PTR are already complaining about how OP this new talent is - for resto druids! Apparently, they become unkillable :roll: It's still a tedious talent, even if OP.

As for Cyclone and Roots. I couldn't care less, really. All PvE CC requirements are covered pretty much by tier 5 and I don't PvP enough to have any relevant input on this; some cry it's too OP, some cry because it got nerfed.


Well, that's mostly because current content is so trivial that it doesn't need longer CC. Roots/Hibernate is actually quite good for CC'ing melee NPCs/beasts/dragonlings. However, you would need to address the problem around casting while in forms. Traditionally, Blizzard has made more and more actions available to druids while in our animal forms. Nature's Grasp was the first spell we were able to cast while staying in an animal form, but when it comes to spells that actually deliver a decent and needed output (healing and damage spells, longer ranged CC), this whole equation becomes much harder to solve. It would probably have to have a CD and/or a ressource cost and cast time.

I dislike the idea of enforcing CDs on spells when cast by a Feral/Guardian, but doesn't have a CD when cast by the other druid specs - Blizzard did this with Cyclone and it breaks a lot of the hybridity of the class imo. Also, I don't mind shifting out of form to hard-cast a spell, because being a Feral is sometimes also about how much mana you have (that's the reason we have a mana return on LotP, after all). We use it to shift and to use our spells (unless they are instant-cast, in form) and so mana should be a ressource we have to manage. This has not been the case during MoP, but it will return with 5.4.

I agree with your Rebirth idea. However, expect QQ from classes that use ressources and/or cast time to battle-res :D

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Re: New Blizzard Topic

Postby Alpheus » Tue Aug 06, 2013 9:25 am

Whitepaw wrote:Not quite - PS allows me to cast a Nature spell instantly and in form. DoC is what buffs the healing spells cast from trivial to non-trivial - and yes, I use the DoC charge to heal myself with Rejuvenation. Together with the cat glyph and me shifting back into cat, Rejuvenation goes from 'Meh' to 'Rather HoT!' 8-) I can even do a PS+HT, then a Thrash (don't even need to hit anything with it) and then a Rejuv with a new DoC healing charge.


While I have no doubt that it is theoretically noticable, a healer will pad you faster than you can get the rejuv off on yourself (especially if you rely on blind thrashes during downtime). The sole purpose of self-heals and smart-heals for "hybrid healing" is that it should be useful and to some extent reliable. A small HoT which you have to spend resources for and trade damage which you can't just pop on a whim is as far from this intended design as you can get. Come to think of it, I would only consider casting rejuvenate as you mentioned in fight sections where I can actually shift out of cat form to use it (ie. during downtime on lei shen, iron qon, etc.). And if that's the case, there's a big chance a healer is idling beside me as well (especially in 25mans) so its value diminishes vastly.

The original LotP idea was perhaps a lot cleaner, if it's a smart heal rather than a 90% overheal on melee then it would be superb. Even more so if it's an absorb. Predatory Swiftness was originally a talent introduced into low-tier feral to help feral survivability with a free form-castable spell (mainly for PvP) which was an entirely new concept at that point. It remains unchanged to this day (bar for the duration) and serves pretty much the same purpose - except now there's other classes with similar abilities which way outperform ours and theirs is not, so to speak, "locked down" by their main T6 talent.

It got replaced with something utterly shit (and incredibly tedious for AFKing in shrine) ... well this I can't really sympathize with.


I thought so too - but the testers on PTR are already complaining about how OP this new talent is - for resto druids! Apparently, they become unkillable :roll: It's still a tedious talent, even if OP.

As for Cyclone and Roots. I couldn't care less, really. All PvE CC requirements are covered pretty much by tier 5 and I don't PvP enough to have any relevant input on this; some cry it's too OP, some cry because it got nerfed.


Well, that's mostly because current content is so trivial that it doesn't need longer CC. Roots/Hibernate is actually quite good for CC'ing melee NPCs/beasts/dragonlings. However, you would need to address the problem around casting while in forms. Traditionally, Blizzard has made more and more actions available to druids while in our animal forms. Nature's Grasp was the first spell we were able to cast while staying in an animal form, but when it comes to spells that actually deliver a decent and needed output (healing and damage spells, longer ranged CC), this whole equation becomes much harder to solve. It would probably have to have a CD and/or a ressource cost and cast time.

I dislike the idea of enforcing CDs on spells when cast by a Feral/Guardian, but doesn't have a CD when cast by the other druid specs - Blizzard did this with Cyclone and it breaks a lot of the hybridity of the class imo. Also, I don't mind shifting out of form to hard-cast a spell, because being a Feral is sometimes also about how much mana you have (that's the reason we have a mana return on LotP, after all). We use it to shift and to use our spells (unless they are instant-cast, in form) and so mana should be a ressource we have to manage. This has not been the case during MoP, but it will return with 5.4.

I agree with your Rebirth idea. However, expect QQ from classes that use ressources and/or cast time to battle-res :D


It could still costs 50 energy/range to cast while shifted, like for DK's. Rage requirement might be a bit harsh, it should definitely consume either an SD charge or be castable with the rage from Enrage (there are some periods where a bear cannot gain rage and may also not shift out of bear form - ie. immune casters, like Lei Shi).
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Re: New Blizzard Topic

Postby Stenhaldi » Tue Aug 06, 2013 9:46 am

Rejuv is not useless in a progression environment -- it's a roughly 1:1 healing:damage trade (assuming your special attacks aren't disrupted) without DoC. Nevertheless, 20% (or even 30%) is not the difference between trivial and nontrivial.

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Re: New Blizzard Topic

Postby Whitepaw » Wed Aug 07, 2013 5:28 am

Patch 5.4, build 17271:
Talents
Dream of Cenarius (Guardian) now also increases Critical Strike chance of Mangle (Bear) by 10%. Your Mangle (Bear) critical strikes have a 40% (was 45%) chance to make your next Healing Touch or Rebirth instant, free, and castable in all forms, and benefit from Attack Power instead of Spell Power.


This latest change re-inforces Blizzard's decision to use procs to enhance our survivability.

It also lowers the possibility of Ferals and Guardians to get Nature's Swiftness back :evil:

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Re: New Blizzard Topic

Postby Jaymzhendo » Fri Aug 09, 2013 5:38 pm

According to GC on Twitter (when asked about Water Cooler article on Monday and Feral changes): "No major new Feral changes in the blog. ATM we also think their damage in 5.4 is also fine."

Still waiting to see if he'll reply to my follow up.
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Re: New Blizzard Topic

Postby raffy » Fri Aug 09, 2013 8:29 pm

I don't think being funneled into HotW is a good thing. The PvP community doesn't like HotW+NS (although I agree it's odd that Boomkin and Ret somehow get a pass here). But I also don't think we have the proper toolkit w/o NS. We're way too good in small combat (imagine if Hunters didn't exist in their current state in 5.3, we'd have all of the 2v2 ranks) but we suck wayyyy too much in big combat. It takes too many GCDs to do anything. I think WW plays a lot like Feral, and other than my many many years of Feral experience, I'd choose my Monk over my Feral for anything beyond 2v2 PvP. WW can kite AND heal. WW can dps AND heal. WW can dispell/heal "in form." I'm increasingly leaning towards my WW for PvP, as I find Feral frustrating and clunky. Feral's skillcap hits a wall when you become GCD limited.

NS might be a lost cause, although I still hope for a nerfed, baseline NS. IMO, more effort should be put into making DoC and NV more viable for progression content.

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Re: New Blizzard Topic

Postby baver » Fri Aug 09, 2013 11:53 pm

So it dont look like we getting any change to berzerk and will be energycap soooo hard next patch with more gear :\

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Re: New Blizzard Topic

Postby Tinderhoof » Sat Aug 10, 2013 2:38 am

baver wrote:So it dont look like we getting any change to berzerk and will be energycap soooo hard next patch with more gear :\

I energy cap so hard right now.

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Re: New Blizzard Topic

Postby FeralXodan » Mon Aug 12, 2013 4:06 pm

baver wrote:So it dont look like we getting any change to berzerk and will be energycap soooo hard next patch with more gear :\

Yea, my first thought when i saw the feral T16 4pc was "oh nice, that should work out nicely with Sotf" but now with AoS trinket im not sure.

The combination of T16 4pc + AoS trinket + SotF talent had me energy capping so much last night, when testing flex mode Thok (and that was with ilvl reduced to 530ish). I was wondering if replacing the SotF talent with FoN would be worth it next tier?

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Re: New Blizzard Topic

Postby Tinderhoof » Mon Aug 12, 2013 5:36 pm

May turn out to be nothing, but I had a nice interaction with Lore on twitter:
https://twitter.com/devolore/status/367025306009206784

They may revisit the NS nerf to DoC. Or at least maybe adjust something to make up for the loss.

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Re: New Blizzard Topic

Postby Sibylle » Mon Aug 12, 2013 6:14 pm

Tinderhoof wrote:May turn out to be nothing, but I had a nice interaction with Lore on twitter:
https://twitter.com/devolore/status/367025306009206784

They may revisit the NS nerf to DoC. Or at least maybe adjust something to make up for the loss.

It's great to get SOME reaction which shows that Blizz are, indeed, listening. Good job :)
-Sibylle

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Re: New Blizzard Topic

Postby baver » Mon Aug 12, 2013 6:57 pm

good shit, now ask about energycap for ferals and im a happy cat for 5.4 :P

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