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Lei Shen HC help

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Lei Shen HC help

Postby Avacado » Wed Aug 21, 2013 8:21 pm

Hello fellow druids!

So I've been reading this forum and have gained a lot of knowledge about the feral spec as a whole, however I'm completely useless at looking at logs.
My guild has been progressing LS25HC and we're getting sub 10% attempts. My DPS hasn't been terrible (I feel) however I don't think it's where it should be at, looking at other ferals who have killed the boss. If anyone has any advice it'd be much appreciated. Here are our logs from last raid:

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-x ... 844&e=8402

Thanks again!
~Ava

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Re: Lei Shen HC help

Postby Steakbomb » Wed Aug 21, 2013 9:57 pm

Looking at your logs the first thing I see if your uptimes are very low.

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/c1l1 ... 582&e=4163

This are my guild logs for a H Lei Shen kill a few weeks ago.

Rip: Me - 76.9% You - 60.2%
Rake: Me - 77.4% You - 65.8%
Thrash: Me - 67% You - 49.2%
Savage Roar: Me - 84.8% You - 72.8%

These percentages are a HUGE reason your dps is low. This fight is hard to have a percentage super high on your bleeds because of transition but you should still be up there.

I see you died to Static Shock. If this was during a transition then it is avoidable. If you have a priest in raid then Symbiosis them and get Dispersion. You can tank the Static Shock that way and it has a 3 min CD which means you can use it for both Transitions. If you get bad RNG then you will need to stack for the 2nd Static Shock. The other option is to get Bubble from a Paladin.

When the balls spawn and jump to melee, Thrash and Swipe and then you should be able to go right back to the boss.
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Re: Lei Shen HC help

Postby Kroníc » Thu Aug 22, 2013 12:04 am

I wasn't able to see your damage in p3 so I looked at Attempt 13 (9:35). It looks like you got off a strong Rip but it looks like you overwrote it somewhere. Assuming you get full procs, time warp, and potion, you should have one Rip up for the entire phase unless you get a stronger proc(very rare but it happens).

I agree with Steak about your bleeds being low. I think your prioritizing Thrash uptime too much and your Rake/Rip times are suffering slightly. I see Thrash up on the boss but I don't see them up on the ball lighting during p1 and p2.

http://img818.imageshack.us/img818/8804/rdz4.png

Here's an example of my guild's first Heroic Lei Shen break down in phase 3 : http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-dv1rb ... 893&e=7081

Your P3: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-x ... 86&e=11099

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Re: Lei Shen HC help

Postby Tremnen » Thu Aug 22, 2013 10:38 am

Besides uptime of rip/rake/roar on the boss which are low I feel you are handling the ball lightnings a bit incorrectly. I do go against the grain on what the "rotation" is for dealing with ball lightnings but I do have numbers to back myself up.

in p2 and p3 (assuming you have t15 4p) Save TF for every ball lightning spawn and just spam swipe after the grip (don't even bother thrashing it a waste of a global / energy) keep your target on Lei Shen though so the combo points stay on him.

To support my case I am considerably lower geared than Kronic and my ball lightning numbers are better than his.

My numbers: http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-nco7m ... 865&e=9445

Kronic's numbers: http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-dv1rb ... target=121

Your Numbers: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-x ... target=112

My p3 ball lightning spikes are considerably lower because i am a ball soaker in p3.

General tips: Stop using Tiger's Fury on cooldown in P2 onward. Yes you will lose out waiting with a 30s cooldown for a 45second event but its too important to burst DPS the balls than to use it on cooldown and assuming you have 4 piece then you need to abuse the 40% crit on 3 swipes to help blow them up. BTW don't think this is an ilvl issue as you currently have 10 ilvls on me. I think you are also overriding strong bleeds are you using a bleed tracker like drood focus or weak auras?

I didnt see once that you used SI or Might of Ursoc or Dispersion. You died to static but a shaman also died at the same time so I am going to assume you are stacking for them on that particular platform. Using Defensive cooldowns does not hurt other people when group soaking static shock. IT ONLY HURTS IF YOU USE AN IMMUNITY LIKE ICE BLOCK. This is a common misconception and when you are soaking static as a group like this you SHOULD be using bark skin/bearform/ursoc/SI. If your raid leadership doesnt believe what I am saying I can show logs to prove it just ask!

You also died and never used a warlock cookie shame on you!

Sorry if I am sounding harsh (Trust me I make a million mistakes too just look at my logs!) but you have more tools to use than you are using. If you find that healing in p2 transition on your platform is lower than it should be do not feel bad about taking HOTW and tranquin after the first bouncing bolts just to top everyone off. Your dps is honestly low right now and DoC might be part of the problem as it could be messing up your rotation. I would recommend using HotW because it is simpler to use (provides a defensive bonus that DoC doesnt by increasing you max HP) and this fight is very mechanics heavy and you honestly have a lot to think about as you do it.

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Re: Lei Shen HC help

Postby Tremnen » Thu Aug 22, 2013 10:56 am

Steakbomb wrote:Looking at your logs the first thing I see if your uptimes are very low.

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/c1l1 ... 582&e=4163

This are my guild logs for a H Lei Shen kill a few weeks ago.

Rip: Me - 76.9% You - 60.2%
Rake: Me - 77.4% You - 65.8%
Thrash: Me - 67% You - 49.2%
Savage Roar: Me - 84.8% You - 72.8%

These percentages are a HUGE reason your dps is low. This fight is hard to have a percentage super high on your bleeds because of transition but you should still be up there.


I just did a double check this isnt his problem atleast on the pull I am looking at. After removing the time stretch of him dead at P3 these are his up times.

Rip: 71.3
Rake: 77.9
Thrash: 58.3
Roar: 86.2

Proof:
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-x ... 844&e=8315

He definitely might be overriding stronger buffs with weaker buffs though. and he needs to increase his uptime on the boss.

So Avacado I apologize for the upper post after a quick review you just need to focus on not dieing, not overriding strong bleeds. Honestly damage is not what is killing your group. You all have about 20-50K DPS on what Method had when they first downed this boss. You just need to execute the mechanics appropriately or change up your strategy.

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Re: Lei Shen HC help

Postby Stenhaldi » Thu Aug 22, 2013 11:53 am

Tremnen wrote:in p2 and p3 (assuming you have t15 4p) Save TF for every ball lightning spawn and just spam swipe after the grip (don't even bother thrashing it a waste of a global / energy) keep your target on Lei Shen though so the combo points stay on him.

Using or not using thrash doesn't make a big difference for ball lightning. I've always used it. If it'll tick once, and no one else is supplying a bleed, then it's a modest gain. If it ticks once and someone else is supplying a bleed, but the other person wouldn't get the bleed up until after your first GCD, then it's about break-even. If someone else is getting bleeds up instantly, then it's a minor loss. If it won't tick once, then it's also a minor loss (but if that's happening then your ball lightning damage doesn't matter).

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Re: Lei Shen HC help

Postby Tremnen » Thu Aug 22, 2013 12:03 pm

Stenhaldi wrote:
Tremnen wrote:in p2 and p3 (assuming you have t15 4p) Save TF for every ball lightning spawn and just spam swipe after the grip (don't even bother thrashing it a waste of a global / energy) keep your target on Lei Shen though so the combo points stay on him.

Using or not using thrash doesn't make a big difference for ball lightning. I've always used it. If it'll tick once, and no one else is supplying a bleed, then it's a modest gain. If it ticks once and someone else is supplying a bleed, but the other person wouldn't get the bleed up until after your first GCD, then it's about break-even. If someone else is getting bleeds up instantly, then it's a minor loss. If it won't tick once, then it's also a minor loss (but if that's happening then your ball lightning damage doesn't matter).


this isn't what I am seeing in my logs when I did runs of thrash + Swipe or Pure Swipe. My personal results with my gear are showing pure swipe with 4pc > thrash +2 Swipes with 4 pc. Though this is only taking into account ball lightning damage and not the damage that a thrash would add onto Lei Shen himself over it's duration. I never though about that before so that would certainly narrow the gap a bit. But from a pure burst perspective on damage only to the ball lightning logs is showing about a 30% increase in damage to the balls (not including anything else) with my gear and a pure swipe rotation. (200K burst DPS on balls vs 150K)

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Re: Lei Shen HC help

Postby Avacado » Thu Aug 22, 2013 12:05 pm

I understand that damage isn't what's killing my group, however as I said I felt like the damage I was doing was lower than it should be. The log I linked was probably not the best to get information from since I died, and I apologise for that.

I use Symbiosis-Dispersion to solo soak static shocks, however in the second intermission we have enough people/CDs to stack up without using it. I always believed the thing about static shock doing more damage to others if you use a CD, guess I was misinformed :P
Thanks for the tips on Ball Lightning AoE, I've not really been AoEing them since with 4 warlocks they melt anyway but I'll give saving TF a go. What bleed ratio tracker would you recommend? I've looked around this forum in the UI section and found a weakaura string that tells me this information, I presume this is still useful?

If I use MoU then shift back into cat will MoU just act as a 30% heal? If I understand correctly then the 30% max health only applies in bear form right?

About my uptimes, I think I have been trying to keep Thrash up a bit too much and that's been affecting the uptimes of my other bleeds. In what situation is it worth casting Thrash without an OoC proc?

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Re: Lei Shen HC help

Postby Tremnen » Thu Aug 22, 2013 12:12 pm

the static shock cooldown thing is a common misconception and cost our guild many a wipe to the boss. It was only when I showed raid leadership logs showing it was not the case that we stopped having whole platform deaths during some intermissions.


Edit:
weak aura is probably the least intrusive (and most customizable) tracker. It also takes the most time and effort to set it up though. Drood focus is basically an all in one addon but you dont get as much customizability with it but it works out of the box.

if you are the kind of person who has to have "the perfect UI" I reccomend weak auras if you are in a rush try Drood.

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Re: Lei Shen HC help

Postby Stenhaldi » Thu Aug 22, 2013 12:28 pm

Tremnen wrote:this isn't what I am seeing in my logs when I did runs of thrash + Swipe or Pure Swipe. My personal results with my gear are showing pure swipe with 4pc > thrash +2 Swipes with 4 pc. Though this is only taking into account ball lightning damage and not the damage that a thrash would add onto Lei Shen himself over it's duration. I never though about that before so that would certainly narrow the gap a bit. But from a pure burst perspective on damage only to the ball lightning logs is showing about a 30% increase in damage to the balls (not including anything else) with my gear and a pure swipe rotation. (200K burst DPS on balls vs 150K)

I'm looking at the raw damage of the abilities. Damage in logs depends on a lot of variables like how many ball lightnings spawn, how much damage the rest of your raid is doing, and what kind of procs you have. (Looking at "DPS" is even worse because it depends on how worldoflogs happens to do the running time-average of your damage.)

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Re: Lei Shen HC help

Postby Tremnen » Thu Aug 22, 2013 12:35 pm

Noted, I purposefully was trying to pull out trinket proc events from the events I was looking at but now that you mention it I definitely was not checking for amount of balls spawned.

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Re: Lei Shen HC help

Postby Tremnen » Thu Aug 22, 2013 12:42 pm

Avacado wrote:
If I use MoU then shift back into cat will MoU just act as a 30% heal? If I understand correctly then the 30% max health only applies in bear form right?

About my uptimes, I think I have been trying to keep Thrash up a bit too much and that's been affecting the uptimes of my other bleeds. In what situation is it worth casting Thrash without an OoC proc?


MoU will not carry over when you shift to cat but it in essence is a damage reduction because you keep the same health percentage (someone correct me if I am wrong I am not at my home computer
To fully check) when you switch back. So MoU +bear form is a large hp gain (bear form getting buffed next patch to so it will be better then) you take the damage then switch back to cat form and get healed up easier because cat.

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