Register

Some help getting a better understanding.

Face-rippin fun.

Moderator: Forum Administrators

Posts: 6
Joined: Mon Sep 30, 2013 2:58 pm

Some help getting a better understanding.

Postby Nekonasha » Mon Sep 30, 2013 3:16 pm

Hello there. I play a feral druid and I have been having a great deal of difficulty truly learning how to master my class. I Love raiding with my guild, but apparently i'm not doing the amount of dps i should be doing and that is a bit of a problem. I have been receiving some help from some of the rogues and monks in the guild on what i can possibly do but since those are two different classes and their need and rotation are a different from a feral druid there is only so much they can do to help me.

It has also become clear that i will admit i made a mistake and used noxxic for the longest time as a guide to help me learn how to play mu class since that was my only guide when i first started out playing. Turns out that was not the best idea. Below i will link my druid from armory and some of my guilds logs. If anyone could have any advice on what i can do or what i'm possibly doing wrong so that i can fix this and work on becoming a better druid it would be greatly appreciated. Thank you for your time and advice.

Armory link: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/bleeding-hollow/Nekonasha/simple
WOL link: http://www.worldoflogs.com/guilds/1143/

Honored
User avatar
Posts: 132
Joined: Sun Apr 07, 2013 4:26 am

Re: Some help getting a better understanding.

Postby Kraineth » Mon Sep 30, 2013 5:46 pm

Bleed/savage roar uptime on a lot of fights seems low.

Are you using Rip at 5 combo points with savage roar up and refreshing if Rune procs? Your average rip tick/crit damage seems to be much lower than mine, only looked at a few days of logs, but seems consistently low. The bleed damage increases greatly based on the amount of combo points used, and so should only be used at 5 combo points.

Revered
Posts: 323
Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2011 5:51 pm

Re: Some help getting a better understanding.

Postby ShmooDude » Mon Sep 30, 2013 6:00 pm

Other people are probably better at this kind of thing than me but I'll give you an initial go over since no one else has replied yet.

Uptimes are decent (looking at your 2 single target fights) but your average bleed damage is way lower than mine and I'm not really in significantly better gear (a 6 ilvls and a tf renataki's). You're also not using Thrash single target, though that's a consideration to make after you fix your Rake/Rip average bleed problem as its a much smaller increase than proper bleed usage.

If you're not using something to know when to overwrite your bleeds with a better one, that's pretty much your problem right there.

You can use DroodFocus, Ovale with Leafkiller's Script or WeakAuras to do so. They all have their merits but anyone that frequents these forums knows I highly favor Ovale. =D

Bleed considerations
Overwrite Rake if its at least 12% stronger than the current Rake
Let Rake expire if the new rake will not be at least 75% of the old rake
Overwrite Rip if its at least 15% stronger than the current Rip

After you've gotten that down, you can start throwing thrash in anytime its not going to interfere with your SR/Rip uptimes.

Revered
Posts: 316
Joined: Wed Jul 31, 2013 10:50 pm

Re: Some help getting a better understanding.

Postby Tremnen » Mon Sep 30, 2013 7:54 pm

You aren't very far behind me in ilvl honestly. I am looking at the closest to a patchwork single target fight this tier (Sha of Pride) on that fight you have good rip/ rake/and SR uptime. you aren't single target thrashing when you have extra energy which is a minor dps loss but more importantly your bleeds are doing less damage than your melee damage. This means you are clipping strong bleeds with weak bleeds. I recommend getting Druid Focus or setting up some weak auras. I personally also use Tell Me When to track trinket procs so they are nice and big on my screen because while Druid Focus may say that the current bleed is strong if a trinket does proc and the duration is almost over on the bleed it can be a DPS gain to get a new bleed out with a trinket proc than to get one out later without one.

Don't shred use mangle it gives more CP/ energy and since CP finisher contribute most of our damage it allows you to use more of em. You can use Shred during Blood lust / Beserk though as you have tons of energy then.

Posts: 6
Joined: Mon Sep 30, 2013 2:58 pm

Re: Some help getting a better understanding.

Postby Nekonasha » Tue Oct 01, 2013 3:12 am

Kraineth wrote:Bleed/savage roar uptime on a lot of fights seems low.

Are you using Rip at 5 combo points with savage roar up and refreshing if Rune procs? Your average rip tick/crit damage seems to be much lower than mine, only looked at a few days of logs, but seems consistently low. The bleed damage increases greatly based on the amount of combo points used, and so should only be used at 5 combo points.


I do use rip when I have 5 combos points up when I can. I talked with some of my guild mates who also have/had the rune and it looks like I wasn't using my rake while it was up. also it has been brought to my attention that I may be using savage roar up to much. Refreshing it to frequently.

Revered
User avatar
Posts: 323
Joined: Tue Oct 23, 2012 4:19 am

Re: Some help getting a better understanding.

Postby Alpheus » Tue Oct 01, 2013 3:16 am

Tremnen wrote:You aren't very far behind me in ilvl honestly. I am looking at the closest to a patchwork single target fight this tier (Sha of Pride) on that fight you have good rip/ rake/and SR uptime. you aren't single target thrashing when you have extra energy which is a minor dps loss but more importantly your bleeds are doing less damage than your melee damage. This means you are clipping strong bleeds with weak bleeds. I recommend getting Druid Focus or setting up some weak auras. I personally also use Tell Me When to track trinket procs so they are nice and big on my screen because while Druid Focus may say that the current bleed is strong if a trinket does proc and the duration is almost over on the bleed it can be a DPS gain to get a new bleed out with a trinket proc than to get one out later without one.

Don't shred use mangle it gives more CP/ energy and since CP finisher contribute most of our damage it allows you to use more of em. You can use Shred during Blood lust / Beserk though as you have tons of energy then.


Iron Juggernaut is a a lot more patchwerk-like than sha (no aoe padding).
Image

Honored
Posts: 50
Joined: Wed Aug 21, 2013 12:24 pm

Re: Some help getting a better understanding.

Postby inferiorlol » Tue Oct 01, 2013 4:37 am

Your average bleed tick for rip is very low. Did a comparison between my kill of garrosh and one of your longest attempts:

http://www.raidbots.com/comparebot/524a ... 9bd#damage

In simulations, your Rip ticks are on average 5k higher than mine, yet in the log they are less than half of my average. You need to track the strength of your bleeds and based on the strength of your current ones relative to the ones on the target you need to decide if you should overwrite them. I use Stenhaldis weakauras to track them: viewtopic.php?f=11&t=4446&p=18611#p18611 but there are also some ratios in the Ovale script (although for me the rip ratio is sometimes bugged so I don't trust it).

Some other things you can work on that I see in your Garrosh try.

You didn't use Ferocous Bite once? Do you always overwrite your Rip or refresh SR? Overwriting a strong Rip with a weaker one is a dps loss (with a few exceptions).

Your thrash uptime is quite low. As long as you have good durations left on SR and Rip, feel free to weave a thrash in there.

I managed to cast 15 Tigers Fury in my 8:33 kill and you casted 13 in your 11:33 wipe. This means I got about 105 energy / minute from TF while you only got 67 energy / minute.

You didn't use Survival Instincts once. At least in 10 man, if you use S.I you can keep dpsing the boss during his whirling corruption. I take symbiosis one a priest as well to be able to basically immune two whirling corruptions.

If I were you I would get some addons for the bleed strengths and go practive a lot on the training dummy to get a feel for them and try to keep beating your own dps record for like a 3 min fight on the dummy.

Revered
Posts: 316
Joined: Wed Jul 31, 2013 10:50 pm

Re: Some help getting a better understanding.

Postby Tremnen » Tue Oct 01, 2013 8:12 am

Alpheus wrote:
Tremnen wrote:You aren't very far behind me in ilvl honestly. I am looking at the closest to a patchwork single target fight this tier (Sha of Pride) on that fight you have good rip/ rake/and SR uptime. you aren't single target thrashing when you have extra energy which is a minor dps loss but more importantly your bleeds are doing less damage than your melee damage. This means you are clipping strong bleeds with weak bleeds. I recommend getting Druid Focus or setting up some weak auras. I personally also use Tell Me When to track trinket procs so they are nice and big on my screen because while Druid Focus may say that the current bleed is strong if a trinket does proc and the duration is almost over on the bleed it can be a DPS gain to get a new bleed out with a trinket proc than to get one out later without one.

Don't shred use mangle it gives more CP/ energy and since CP finisher contribute most of our damage it allows you to use more of em. You can use Shred during Blood lust / Beserk though as you have tons of energy then.


Iron Juggernaut is a a lot more patchwerk-like than sha (no aoe padding).


makes sense where I am in the room I don't get to AoE pad because all the adds get misdirected to the tanks and then AoE'd Down by ranged.

Honored
Posts: 82
Joined: Tue Sep 18, 2012 4:01 pm

Re: Some help getting a better understanding.

Postby Helistar » Tue Oct 01, 2013 8:15 am

I'm comparing your Malrok fight with my last week's. I agree with the above posters, for some reason your bleed damage is way too low. We have the same ilvl and you have a better weapon (your melee hit harder than mine), identical (almost) trinkets. You use SotF while I use FoN. You're overcapped in hit and expertise, I'm overcapped (more) only in hit.
Your uptimes are actually better than mine but you're behind in DPS.
When I look at rake damage, my average tick is 90k and yours is 83k. The difference is even higher for the initial application (almost 100k vs 83k). Rip is even more: 92k vs 61k!! Unless you're ripping at 4CP or without SR I don't even see how this can be possible.

I join the others: get some DoT magnitude addon and use it to overwrite.
Use TF more, on Malkrok I have 9 casts for 4:42 vs. your 6 for 4:41.
Use Thrash when you can (= you have energy, are or will be at 5CP without any need for refresh).
Try to get longer SR: you're at 11 vs my 8 for a fight with a 1s duration difference.
Potion: use two: at the beginning all your trinkets proc, this makes for an initial fat Rake and Rip (and Thrash, under berserk you have the energy for it) + use a potion at the 2nd berserk, timed around the boss' 25% mark. Use it to put up a strong rip and mantain it until the end.
For the Mangle/shred thing, if I'm not mistaken with SotF mangle is ahead because of the higher combo point generation.

My Malkrok (in fr, but just hover the spell names): http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/0zeu ... 221&e=2504

Revered
User avatar
Posts: 323
Joined: Tue Oct 23, 2012 4:19 am

Re: Some help getting a better understanding.

Postby Alpheus » Tue Oct 01, 2013 9:04 am

A quick run-down on major buff gains and rake/rip casts:

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-0 ... SUCCESS%29

(if it's not working, put the following code in the expression editor:)

Code: Select all
sourceName = "Nekonasha"
AND (spell in ("Blades", "Re-Origination", "Dream of Cenarius")
OR spell in ("Rake", "Rip", "Ferocious Bite") AND fulltype = SPELL_CAST_SUCCESS)


Overall I see a lot of high-stack blades procs and Rune procs not taken advantage off, mostly missing applications by half a second. Second thing that came to mind was the high amount of clipping going on with your Rakes and Rips (too early ones).

Edit2: Added Ferocious Bite as well
Last edited by Alpheus on Tue Oct 01, 2013 9:17 am, edited 3 times in total.
Image

Revered
Posts: 316
Joined: Wed Jul 31, 2013 10:50 pm

Re: Some help getting a better understanding.

Postby Tremnen » Tue Oct 01, 2013 9:11 am

Alpheus wrote:A quick run-down on major buff gains and rake/rip casts:

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-0 ... SUCCESS%29

(if it's not working, put the following code in the expression editor:)

Code: Select all
sourceName = "Nekonasha"
AND (spell in ("Blades", "Re-Origination", "Dream of Cenarius")
OR spell in ("Rake", "Rip") AND fulltype = SPELL_CAST_SUCCESS)


Thank you for posting this!!! I also solved OPs problem!

The tier 15 2pc is messing him over. He is ovrriding 5 cp rips with the 1 cp he gets from the set bonus. Its really obvious if you look at the expression editor. OP also isnt really making use of his trinket procs enough.

Revered
User avatar
Posts: 323
Joined: Tue Oct 23, 2012 4:19 am

Re: Some help getting a better understanding.

Postby Alpheus » Tue Oct 01, 2013 9:15 am

Tremnen wrote:
Alpheus wrote:A quick run-down on major buff gains and rake/rip casts:

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-0 ... SUCCESS%29

(if it's not working, put the following code in the expression editor:)

Code: Select all
sourceName = "Nekonasha"
AND (spell in ("Blades", "Re-Origination", "Dream of Cenarius")
OR spell in ("Rake", "Rip") AND fulltype = SPELL_CAST_SUCCESS)


Thank you for posting this!!! I also solved OPs problem!

The tier 15 2pc is messing him over. He is ovrriding 5 cp rips with the 1 cp he gets from the set bonus. Its really obvious if you look at the expression editor. OP also isnt really making use of his trinket procs enough.


TL;DR, stop mashing buttons :D
Image

Honored
Posts: 50
Joined: Wed Aug 21, 2013 12:24 pm

Re: Some help getting a better understanding.

Postby inferiorlol » Tue Oct 01, 2013 9:16 am

Alpheus wrote:A quick run-down on major buff gains and rake/rip casts:

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-0 ... SUCCESS%29

(if it's not working, put the following code in the expression editor:)

Code: Select all
sourceName = "Nekonasha"
AND (spell in ("Blades", "Re-Origination", "Dream of Cenarius")
OR spell in ("Rake", "Rip") AND fulltype = SPELL_CAST_SUCCESS)


Edit: Beaten to the finish line.

These are odd:

[23:16:31.291] Nekonasha casts Rip on Malkorok
[23:16:32.336] Nekonasha casts Rip on Malkorok


[23:17:34.600] Nekonasha casts Rip on Malkorok
[23:17:35.593] Nekonasha casts Rip on Malkorok

[23:18:01.213] Nekonasha casts Rip on Malkorok
[23:18:02.203] Nekonasha casts Rip on Malkorok

etc.

Is it possible you are spamming Rip at 5CP, you cast it and then you get one extra CP from the T15 2set-bonus while still spamming Rip causing it to overwrite your 5CP rip with a 1CP one.

Actually looking at the logs I am pretty sure this is what is happening:

[23:17:34.600] Nekonasha casts Rip on Malkorok - Rip at 5 CP, set bonus procs, now at 1 CP
[23:17:35.005] Malkorok's Rip is refreshed by Nekonasha
[23:17:35.005] Nekonasha Rip Malkorok *148515* Rip tick with 5 CP
[23:17:35.593] Nekonasha casts Rip on Malkorok
[23:17:35.755] Malkorok's Rip is refreshed by Nekonasha Refreshes rip with 1 CP
[23:17:36.928] Nekonasha Rip Malkorok 15207 Rip tick with 1 CP
[23:17:38.837] Nekonasha Rip Malkorok *30413* Rip tick with 1 CP
[23:17:40.818] Nekonasha Rip Malkorok 15207 Rip tick with 1 CP
[23:17:42.238] Nekonasha casts Rake on Malkorok
[23:17:42.830] Nekonasha Rip Malkorok *30413* Rip tick with 1 CP
[23:17:44.824] Nekonasha Rip Malkorok 15206 Rip tick with 1 CP
[23:17:46.813] Nekonasha Rip Malkorok 15206 Rip tick with 1 CP
[23:17:48.825] Nekonasha Rip Malkorok 15206 Rip tick with 1 CP
[23:17:50.809] Nekonasha Rip Malkorok 15206 Rip tick with 1 CP

Revered
Posts: 316
Joined: Wed Jul 31, 2013 10:50 pm

Re: Some help getting a better understanding.

Postby Tremnen » Tue Oct 01, 2013 9:31 am

So basically you need a bleed tracker because even if you were overriding 5cp bleeds with 1cp bleeds the bleed tracker would show you right away that your bleeds were weak and you should refresh them.

You need to get an addon like Tell Me When and configure it to track your trinket procs so you can refresh your bleeds more optimally.

Use Mangle over shred except during beserk / bloodlust to get the most out of Soul of the Forest.

When Omen of Clarity procs throw out a thrash/use thrash when you have extra energy.

Also at one point on your malkorok log you start spamming rakes to generate combo points thats not really worth it unless Rune is procced (it wasn't as far as I can tell).
Last edited by Tremnen on Tue Oct 01, 2013 9:56 am, edited 1 time in total.

Honored
Posts: 50
Joined: Wed Aug 21, 2013 12:24 pm

Re: Some help getting a better understanding.

Postby inferiorlol » Tue Oct 01, 2013 9:41 am

Tremnen wrote:
Also at one point on your malkorok log you start spamming rakes to generate combo points thats not really worth it unless Rune is procced (it wasn't as far as I can tell).


Catus can tell you at what buff combinations Rake do more damage than Rip by going to the Computable Statistics tab. Thinking about that, does anyone have a weakaura that would show you the expected damage of Mange and Rake so you know exactly when it is worth to use Rake for CPs instead of Mangle.

I'm thinking something like showing a Mangle, if Mangle does more damage on average, Rake if rake does more damage, and maybe a red Rake icon if Rake would do more damage than Mangle but would overwrite a stronger rake.

Revered
User avatar
Posts: 476
Joined: Wed Jun 29, 2011 4:49 am

Re: Some help getting a better understanding.

Postby Stenhaldi » Tue Oct 01, 2013 5:35 pm

Rake filler can also be worthwhile if you have major agility procs due to its superior attack power scaling. (Mangle and shred split their damage scaling between attack power and weapon damage, while rake is pure attack power.)

Posts: 6
Joined: Mon Sep 30, 2013 2:58 pm

Re: Some help getting a better understanding.

Postby Nekonasha » Tue Oct 01, 2013 7:48 pm

inferiorlol wrote:Your average bleed tick for rip is very low. Did a comparison between my kill of garrosh and one of your longest attempts:

http://www.raidbots.com/comparebot/524a ... 9bd#damage

In simulations, your Rip ticks are on average 5k higher than mine, yet in the log they are less than half of my average. You need to track the strength of your bleeds and based on the strength of your current ones relative to the ones on the target you need to decide if you should overwrite them. I use Stenhaldis weakauras to track them: viewtopic.php?f=11&t=4446&p=18611#p18611 but there are also some ratios in the Ovale script (although for me the rip ratio is sometimes bugged so I don't trust it).

Some other things you can work on that I see in your Garrosh try.

You didn't use Ferocous Bite once? Do you always overwrite your Rip or refresh SR? Overwriting a strong Rip with a weaker one is a dps loss (with a few exceptions).

Your thrash uptime is quite low. As long as you have good durations left on SR and Rip, feel free to weave a thrash in there.

I managed to cast 15 Tigers Fury in my 8:33 kill and you casted 13 in your 11:33 wipe. This means I got about 105 energy / minute from TF while you only got 67 energy / minute.

You didn't use Survival Instincts once. At least in 10 man, if you use S.I you can keep dpsing the boss during his whirling corruption. I take symbiosis one a priest as well to be able to basically immune two whirling corruptions.

If I were you I would get some addons for the bleed strengths and go practive a lot on the training dummy to get a feel for them and try to keep beating your own dps record for like a 3 min fight on the dummy.

I will be honest with you I used to use noxxic to get my info on how to be a druid and use to only use Ferocious bite when I got below 25%. I overwrite rip or savage roar depending on what's lower at time.

Also when you cast your TF do you do it the moment it is available? Or wait till you are lower on energy. if so what percent do you wait until to use the tigers fury? I try would use it as soon as it was available.

And I never thought about using Survival Instincts while He does the whirling corruptions. I suppose that I will have to give it a try next time.

Also what addones do you recommend I use to keep track of bleeds? So far I have leafkiller and tell me when.

Posts: 6
Joined: Mon Sep 30, 2013 2:58 pm

Re: Some help getting a better understanding.

Postby Nekonasha » Tue Oct 01, 2013 7:54 pm

inferiorlol wrote:
Alpheus wrote:A quick run-down on major buff gains and rake/rip casts:

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-0 ... SUCCESS%29

(if it's not working, put the following code in the expression editor:)

Code: Select all
sourceName = "Nekonasha"
AND (spell in ("Blades", "Re-Origination", "Dream of Cenarius")
OR spell in ("Rake", "Rip") AND fulltype = SPELL_CAST_SUCCESS)


Edit: Beaten to the finish line.

These are odd:

[23:16:31.291] Nekonasha casts Rip on Malkorok
[23:16:32.336] Nekonasha casts Rip on Malkorok


[23:17:34.600] Nekonasha casts Rip on Malkorok
[23:17:35.593] Nekonasha casts Rip on Malkorok

[23:18:01.213] Nekonasha casts Rip on Malkorok
[23:18:02.203] Nekonasha casts Rip on Malkorok

etc.

Is it possible you are spamming Rip at 5CP, you cast it and then you get one extra CP from the T15 2set-bonus while still spamming Rip causing it to overwrite your 5CP rip with a 1CP one.

Actually looking at the logs I am pretty sure this is what is happening:

[23:17:34.600] Nekonasha casts Rip on Malkorok - Rip at 5 CP, set bonus procs, now at 1 CP
[23:17:35.005] Malkorok's Rip is refreshed by Nekonasha
[23:17:35.005] Nekonasha Rip Malkorok *148515* Rip tick with 5 CP
[23:17:35.593] Nekonasha casts Rip on Malkorok
[23:17:35.755] Malkorok's Rip is refreshed by Nekonasha Refreshes rip with 1 CP
[23:17:36.928] Nekonasha Rip Malkorok 15207 Rip tick with 1 CP
[23:17:38.837] Nekonasha Rip Malkorok *30413* Rip tick with 1 CP
[23:17:40.818] Nekonasha Rip Malkorok 15207 Rip tick with 1 CP
[23:17:42.238] Nekonasha casts Rake on Malkorok
[23:17:42.830] Nekonasha Rip Malkorok *30413* Rip tick with 1 CP
[23:17:44.824] Nekonasha Rip Malkorok 15206 Rip tick with 1 CP
[23:17:46.813] Nekonasha Rip Malkorok 15206 Rip tick with 1 CP
[23:17:48.825] Nekonasha Rip Malkorok 15206 Rip tick with 1 CP
[23:17:50.809] Nekonasha Rip Malkorok 15206 Rip tick with 1 CP

So instead of refreshing my rip so much with just another rip I keep hearing I should use FB in-between? Maybe just use rip again when I have 5 combos and about5-7 seconds left on it then?

Posts: 6
Joined: Mon Sep 30, 2013 2:58 pm

Re: Some help getting a better understanding.

Postby Nekonasha » Tue Oct 01, 2013 7:59 pm

Tremnen wrote:So basically you need a bleed tracker because even if you were overriding 5cp bleeds with 1cp bleeds the bleed tracker would show you right away that your bleeds were weak and you should refresh them.

You need to get an addon like Tell Me When and configure it to track your trinket procs so you can refresh your bleeds more optimally.

Use Mangle over shred except during beserk / bloodlust to get the most out of Soul of the Forest.

When Omen of Clarity procs throw out a thrash/use thrash when you have extra energy.

Also at one point on your malkorok log you start spamming rakes to generate combo points thats not really worth it unless Rune is procced (it wasn't as far as I can tell).

I do have tell me when and I have it set up to track my rune now. So as for the shred. what you are suggesting is that during bloodlust/ using my berserk I should spam shred then but other then that use mangle to build combo points up? Is this because shred cost so much energy even though it does more damage if done from behind? or because mangle can be used from any position when avoiding things on the floor and around the room?

Revered
User avatar
Posts: 385
Joined: Thu Jan 05, 2012 6:51 am
Location: Ireland

Re: Some help getting a better understanding.

Postby Sibylle » Wed Oct 02, 2013 7:30 am

As for refreshing Rip:

1. Only EVER refresh it with 5 Combo Points, or with a FB during Blood in the Water (last 25% of boss's health).
2. Ideally, refresh it with less then 3 seconds left. You can wait to refresh it and pool some energy, just be careful not to cap energy.
3. Exception to the less-than-3-seconds-left rule: Immediately refresh Rip with a new 5-combo point Rip if the new one will be considerably stronger than the current one. When you use DroodFocus (which I highly recommend, although it does require a bit of setup), the dot on the icon will turn green if you should apply a new (5-combo-point) Rip immediately. As long as the dot is red or grey, try to do what I described in point 2.

Generally, all finishers should only be used with 5 combo points. One exception might be Savage Roar, but only if it's going to fall off otherwise.
-Sibylle

"Not a shred of evidence exists in favor of the idea that life is serious." (Brendan Gill)

Revered
User avatar
Posts: 323
Joined: Tue Oct 23, 2012 4:19 am

Re: Some help getting a better understanding.

Postby Alpheus » Wed Oct 02, 2013 8:10 am

Sibylle wrote:As for refreshing Rip:

1. Only EVER refresh it with 5 Combo Points, or with a FB during Blood in the Water (last 25% of boss's health).


There are situations, namely a high renataki stack with RoRo for example, where 4CP rips are better than what you previously had applied at 5 CP and you don't have enough time to get to 5CPs and rip before the procs expire. Catus can generate a full table of proc combinations for comparison

Sibylle wrote:2. Ideally, refresh it with less then 3 seconds left. You can wait to refresh it and pool some energy, just be careful not to cap energy.
3. Exception to the less-than-3-seconds-left rule: Immediately refresh Rip with a new 5-combo point Rip if the new one will be considerably stronger than the current one. When you use DroodFocus (which I highly recommend, although it does require a bit of setup), the dot on the icon will turn green if you should apply a new (5-combo-point) Rip immediately. As long as the dot is red or grey, try to do what I described in point 2.


There's no golden rule to this. If the old rip and new rip are the same, <3sec left is ideal but in practice very few rips are identical and you always have to look at the trade-off between damage gained/lost vs. rip duration. I believe SimC is currently using a +15% clipping rule (among other stuff), ie. if your new rune is more than 15% stronger, clip it immediately.

If you're new to feral dps, the most important thing is to try to do it perfectly from the get-go. Don't try to simplify it by ignoring certain rules (like ignore bleed strength, duration, procs, maybe even DoC). Other classes simply result in lower dps but as a kitty you will also get punished by having a much more chaotic environment (buffs/debuffs constantly falling off, trying to squeeze in extra energy, no time to rest and think about the right decision) than you started with.
Image

Revered
User avatar
Posts: 385
Joined: Thu Jan 05, 2012 6:51 am
Location: Ireland

Re: Some help getting a better understanding.

Postby Sibylle » Wed Oct 02, 2013 1:49 pm

Alpheus, this was in response to people discovering 1-point Rips in the log. Of course everything has exceptions, but I tried to forumulate a few general rules for Rip. In the end, it depends on tons of factors, but if the OP goes from overwriting a 5-combo Rip with a 1-combo Rip to doing what I described, her damage will skyrocket. The rest is fine-tuning.
-Sibylle

"Not a shred of evidence exists in favor of the idea that life is serious." (Brendan Gill)

Revered
User avatar
Posts: 323
Joined: Tue Oct 23, 2012 4:19 am

Re: Some help getting a better understanding.

Postby Alpheus » Wed Oct 02, 2013 1:53 pm

Sibylle wrote:Alpheus, this was in response to people discovering 1-point Rips in the log. Of course everything has exceptions, but I tried to forumulate a few general rules for Rip. In the end, it depends on tons of factors, but if the OP goes from overwriting a 5-combo Rip with a 1-combo Rip to doing what I described, her damage will skyrocket. The rest is fine-tuning.


Still, catering strategies and rotations for bad play is just gonna propagate the problems. No reason not to do it properly from the start. He'll have less trouble in the long run.
Image

Honored
Posts: 91
Joined: Thu Mar 14, 2013 9:29 am

Re: Some help getting a better understanding.

Postby Paloro » Wed Oct 02, 2013 2:09 pm

Sibylle wrote:As for refreshing Rip:
2. Ideally, refresh it with less then 3 seconds left. You can wait to refresh it and pool some energy, just be careful not to cap energy.


Just so we aren't spreading bad information, Rip ticks every 2 seconds so refreshing at <2 sec is optimal.
Image

Revered
Posts: 316
Joined: Wed Jul 31, 2013 10:50 pm

Re: Some help getting a better understanding.

Postby Tremnen » Wed Oct 02, 2013 2:33 pm

Even that depends. If you are refreshing a double trinket proc rip with a non trinket proc rip its better to not refresh until it drops off entirely.

TLDR Feral is extremely situational. There are no set rules that fill every situation. get a bleed tracker, reapply bleeds when they are going to be stronger.

Next

Return to Kitty DPS

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests