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OK these SOO trinkets I need Help with RORO

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OK these SOO trinkets I need Help with RORO

Postby bacevicius » Fri Oct 25, 2013 2:59 am

OK well im officially ignoring anything on the sims as well as robot are saying about optimizing roro.. I have just picked up THE 561 TED from blackfuse, I had originally had my 536 roro and AOC 561 which Did rather well in SOO Raid bosses due to its reduction time.. However I paired the two 561's ted and aoc and was completely in awe when a target dummy tested over a 80 to 100k dps LOSS over the 536 RORO, My question here is obviously RORO scales till they nerf it,, I Placed RORO 536 with TED 561 and found TEDs proc Plus than mastery beat AOC by over 2k because I got an extra 2100+ secondarys added to my RORO... Now what I am seeing now is rather than reforging the regular RORO way (all stats close as possible ) MR ROBOT (which RORO reforge is the only thing I use robot for, it takes less than a minute) are showing that since I have so much mastery on TED's That I can leave my reforges to mastery as if RORO was not there because the static 116% mastery trumps 240% when roro ticks... I tried the usual RORO REFORge it only added 30 percent more bleed on the proc (271%) is MR ROBOT right when it says im at 392k with mastery at 116% static with a RORO proc at 230% or where it says Optimal 390k reforging RORO the right way with TED Giving 270% bleed for RORO proc. Does this mean that im getting around 2k or so more ignoring the calculator that has the secondarys as close as possible just to get an extra 30 Percent more bleed on the roro proc and apparently loosing 2k? has anyone paired these 3 trinks to see what just happens on one target dummy < Thanks for any info you can provide...until I get harroms thanks guys

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Re: OK these SOO trinkets I need Help with RORO

Postby raffy » Fri Oct 25, 2013 4:00 am

What exactly is your question? :)

It sounds like you're using AMR to decide between trinkets that show a hypothetical "2K DPS" delta. While there's nothing wrong with stat weight analysis, the size of the error in these estimates are unknown. Stat weight based DPS estimates probably have error on the order of thousands of DPS (1-2%+) making their error comparable with the value of a set bonus.

This might be a little greek, but recently in the Catus thread, I made some DPS measurements using 4 stats (Agility, Mastery, Haste, Crit) and computed a significantly more advanced form of stat weighting. Using these weights, I computed the DPS that those stats would produce and compared that value to the recorded DPS they actually produced. Check the bottom plot in this graph. As you can see, there is strong correlation (a linear relationship) but the error is real and in the thousands. This is basically the best you can do with stat weight based analysis. This also assumes static/constant value whereas trinkets are traditionally proc-based and since there are two trinkets, you can have synergistic effects and/or alignment issues.

Here are some individual Catus results using recommended settings for various reforges:

[536] Rune of Re-Origination (Thunderforged) / [561] Ticking Ebon Detonator
341.3K = 2551 Hit, 2551 Expertise, 27460 Agi, 9430 Mastery, 9392 Haste, 9429 Crit (1:1:1)
339.4K = 2543 Hit, 2550 Expertise, 27460 Agi, 10277 Mastery, 8563 Haste, 9420 Crit
333.1K = 2556 Hit, 2555 Expertise, 27460 Agi, 14717 Mastery, 5968 Haste, 7557 Crit (maximize mastery)

[536] Rune of Re-Origination (Thunderforged) / [561] Assurance of Consequence
337.0K = 2551 Hit, 2551 Expertise, 27460 Agi, 8718 Mastery, 8707 Haste, 8715 Crit
329.9K = 2556 Hit, 2555 Expertise, 27460 Agi, 12606 Mastery, 5968 Haste, 7557 Crit

[561] Assurance of Consequence / [561] Ticking Ebon Detonator
335.2K = 2556 Hit, 2555 Expertise, 25788 Agi, 14717 Mastery, 5968 Haste, 7557 Crit

You can also generate these results within moments of launching Catus for the first time, by using the new Trinket simulator:
Code: Select all
         DPS   Error  Trinket 1                       Trinket 2
  1.  341.3K     162  [536] Rune of Re-Origination    [561] Ticking Ebon Detonator
  2.  337.3K     116  [536] Rune of Re-Origination    [561] Assurance of Consequence
  3.  334.9K     123  [561] Assurance of Consequence  [561] Ticking Ebon Detonator


Here is a more complete list:
Code: Select all
  1.  341.0K     115  [536] Rune of Re-Origination    [561] Ticking Ebon Detonator
  2.  340.5K     109  [536] Rune of Re-Origination    [561] Haromm's Talisman
  3.  339.9K     110  [561] Haromm's Talisman         [561] Ticking Ebon Detonator
  4.  337.1K      82  [536] Rune of Re-Origination    [561] Assurance of Consequence
  5.  335.1K      87  [561] Assurance of Consequence  [561] Ticking Ebon Detonator
  6.  334.8K     102  [536] Rune of Re-Origination    [543] Renataki's Soul Charm
  7.  333.3K      76  [561] Assurance of Consequence  [561] Haromm's Talisman
  8.  330.3K     101  [543] Renataki's Soul Charm     [561] Ticking Ebon Detonator
  9.  330.2K      95  [543] Renataki's Soul Charm     [561] Haromm's Talisman
 10.  327.4K      94  [536] Rune of Re-Origination    [543] Bad Juju
 11.  326.6K      98  [543] Bad Juju                  [561] Ticking Ebon Detonator
 12.  325.3K      69  [543] Renataki's Soul Charm     [561] Assurance of Consequence
 13.  324.7K      91  [543] Bad Juju                  [561] Haromm's Talisman
 14.  320.1K      61  [543] Bad Juju                  [561] Assurance of Consequence
 15.  317.4K      83  [543] Bad Juju                  [543] Renataki's Soul Charm

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Re: OK these SOO trinkets I need Help with RORO

Postby Alpheus » Fri Oct 25, 2013 5:46 am

I'm pretty sure what happened is that he had RoRO equiped with the Rune widget pre-saved in the "ON" state, then swapped to AoC+TED which turned the widget off. He saw a dps loss and simmed RoRO again but this time the widget was off and it gave a "similar" yet uncomparable "score" because the widget-less stat-weights are vastly different.
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Re: OK these SOO trinkets I need Help with RORO

Postby bacevicius » Fri Oct 25, 2013 9:36 am

I did do the sim but I also ran a 25 man raid thru the first 11 bosses both ways so the simcraft thing was correct in that it has a lot of problems determining... but as I thought The post edgy put with the charts showed my point was right the RORO and AOC pulls ahead 4 to 5k dps overall so Im sticking with it . I think they put these new trinkets in to make a switch around for specific fights but I cant go thru a reforge every time when my overall 536 and 561 AOC or TED are going to be more damage overall

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Re: OK these SOO trinkets I need Help with RORO

Postby Alpheus » Fri Oct 25, 2013 5:54 pm

bacevicius wrote:I did do the sim but I also ran a 25 man raid thru the first 11 bosses both ways so the simcraft thing was correct in that it has a lot of problems determining... but as I thought The post edgy put with the charts showed my point was right the RORO and AOC pulls ahead 4 to 5k dps overall so Im sticking with it . I think they put these new trinkets in to make a switch around for specific fights but I cant go thru a reforge every time when my overall 536 and 561 AOC or TED are going to be more damage overall


Tbh I'd use TED over AOC especially if you're doing some normal kills to finish the week. The fact that AoC procs once every two minutes makes it pretty lack-luster since you only get like 40 seconds to hope for an alignment (even worse if it doesn't proc on pull) to make it extra worthwhile.
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