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Feral Energy Pooling

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Feral Energy Pooling

Postby MzBear » Thu Dec 12, 2013 2:22 pm

I'm having some issues with energy pooling. I've looked around for info but havent seen a hole lot that is helpful. Can someone please give me some tips on how to better my energy management. I've also noticed that my rip uptimes seem lower than they should be, but running on a target dummy and paying close attention to always having it up it still comes out less than 100%. How is that possible? Sorry if its nub questions, just tryin to understand :)

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Re: Feral Energy Pooling

Postby Sibylle » Thu Dec 12, 2013 4:24 pm

100% uptime is practically impossible, if you're in the mid-to-high 90% for both Rake and Rip you're doing something right.

Energy pooling... That's something you do when the situation requires it. I'm finding it impossible to describe a scenario accurately so I'm hoping for someone else to step in :)
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Re: Feral Energy Pooling

Postby Steakbomb » Thu Dec 12, 2013 8:02 pm

As Sybile said, 100% uptime is basically impossible. You should shoot for 93-97% without too much issue. 100% requires a lot of luck on crits, sitting on CP's to be able to Rip again, or using Rip with less that 5 CPs.

There really isn't a situation where you need to pool your energy right now outside of a couple bosses. On Sha pooling to 45 energy for a quick Thrash for the Reflection adds helps your raid(depending on how you do the fight).

Depending on what your role is on a certain boss, you shouldn't really need to pool your energy at all unless you have Trinkets/DoC up and you want to Trash or something.

If you are assigned to an add such as the Corrupted Fragments on Sha then you might want to pool a bit as the cast happens to get up a quick rake onto the add.

But for the most part, unless your strat calls for an add with a big HP pool to die super quick, there isn't much use to energy pooling. Unused energy results in energy capping and wasted energy.

It's kind of the same idea as when people use their DoC procs. Some people use them on Rip/Rake or if PS is about to expire and then there are people that use DoC as soon as it comes up. There is a feral on my server that most of the time, he uses DoC procs as soon as he gets PS no matter what he has up for bleeds or how many CP's he has. It ends up resulting in him doing 50-75k less DPS than me on any given fight even though he has 11 ilvls on me.
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Re: Feral Energy Pooling

Postby Stenhaldi » Fri Dec 13, 2013 1:08 am

We may have different notions of energy pooling, but to be clear, you typically avoid spending energy unless you need to. It's nothing particularly complicated: spend energy if you're close to capping, or if you need to perform some time-sensitive rotational move (e.g. getting a bleed up), or if you're about to lose contact with the target (or it's about to die). Otherwise, don't rush to spend energy -- hold onto a reserve so that you can perform those time-sensitive moves when you need them.

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Re: Feral Energy Pooling

Postby Kraineth » Fri Dec 13, 2013 1:31 am

Pretty much what sten said, a poorly timed FB at the lowest energy possible followed by a double trinket proc can make you really sad if you aren't able to get the rip up before they fall off.

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Re: Feral Energy Pooling

Postby RareBeast » Fri Dec 13, 2013 3:15 am

Kraineth wrote:Pretty much what sten said, a poorly timed FB at the lowest energy possible followed by a double trinket proc can make you really sad if you aren't able to get the rip up before they fall off.


This is what I watch for. Leave the FB till the absolute last moment, just in case you get a trinket proc or two and can put up a stronger rip instead of "wasting" the combo points on a much less beneficial FB.

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Re: Feral Energy Pooling

Postby Tremnen » Fri Dec 13, 2013 8:53 am

Something a lot of ferals don't seem to understand (of the ones I have talked to looking for help) is that there is a set amount of energy you will have available for you to use when you go into a fight. You don't know what that amount is before going in to battle because you don't know how long the fight will last but it is a finite resource. This means we want to be pressing our precious buttons that we only get a limited amount of when they will do the most damage without stopping us from pressing another button int he future (Energy wasting). So instead of raking at 45 energy when the rake has 3 seconds left, we should pool energy for the next few seconds to see if a trinket will proc. Ideally you want just shy of 100 energy before any major trinket proc so that you can spend as much enegy as possible within the duration of it's buff as this will give the most damage per energy of anytime in the fight. Because we are so reliant on snap shotting this is a natural repercussion of that system but as e move onwards to WoD this is going to be more important since we wont be able to snap shot(as effectively) using more energy during high Attack Power events will be more important.
Ex. 2 ferals both have enough energy to get off ~100 casts, both have trinkets that proc at the same time. The feral who casts 20 casts during trinket procs is not going to do as much damage as the one who did 35.

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Re: Feral Energy Pooling

Postby Kraineth » Sun Dec 15, 2013 5:51 am

Pooling to just below 100 can end up screwing you if you get an OoC proc, the only time I do that is before a FB since the extra energy for the bonus damage is still used, generally ~80 is good since we have a 1second gcd.

As far as WoD is concerned (assuming bleed snapshotting truly is removed) pooling is just going to be about not clipping dots, while also not wasting combo points spamming shred/mangle. It won't really change energy management, but not having to cast 2 rips in 5 seconds since Rune just procced should be a welcome change. I've had my fill of staring at bleed ratios.

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Re: Feral Energy Pooling

Postby aggixx » Thu Dec 19, 2013 5:19 pm

Kraineth wrote:Pooling to just below 100 can end up screwing you if you get an OoC proc, the only time I do that is before a FB since the extra energy for the bonus damage is still used, generally ~80 is good since we have a 1second gcd.

Yeah, technically optimal is to pool until you're 1 second away from capping, that way if OoC does proc you can hit a 2nd ability right as you hit 100 energy.
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Re: Feral Energy Pooling

Postby Helistar » Fri Dec 20, 2013 7:35 am

If you look in detail at how feral works, it's interesting because of the presence of DoTs, with added "interest" from the snapshotting of DoTs.
As Tremnen says, feral is a resource-limited spec: apart from the "free" moves from OOC, the fight duration decides the amount of available energy, and then it's up to you to use it for the best. (this is contrary to GCD-limited specs, where your DPS would approach infinity if you could spam keys fast enough).

If we only had direct attacks, the optimal solution would be easy: spam the move with the best DPR (damage per resource). DoTs make the picture more complex: DoTs have much higher DPR than direct attacks, but they have a very big limitation: *the maximum possible number of DoT ticks is fixed by the fight duration*. In 60 seconds you can have 20 rake ticks (unless you manipulate the combat log :P), so DoT optimization works differently, you cannot only look at energy: you want to make the best use of that limited number of DoT ticks. From this comes all the DoT refreshing stuff: when you refresh a DoT you usually kill the DPR of the previous DoT application, as a result it's only worth it if the new ticks make up for the lost DPR of the previous application. This is why you should not hesitate to refresh a Rip in BitW range: even if you only gain 5% per tick, that's +5% damage on ALL subsequent Rip ticks at the cheap price of a Rip cast, the closer you are to 25%, the less you need to gain to make it worthwhile.
It would probably worth to take this phrase by Tremnen and put it on a post-it near the screen, because it really sums it up:
This means we want to be pressing our precious buttons that we only get a limited amount of when they will do the most damage without stopping us from pressing another button in the future.

(of course, as the action list shows, this is not as simple as it sounds :)).

This is something which will change with the loss of snapshotting: if DoTs are dynamically updated we go back the WotLK model, where the aim was 100% uptime, since your ticks will automatically be stronger as soon as one proc happens.

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Re: Feral Energy Pooling

Postby mekell » Thu Jan 02, 2014 5:58 pm

The way i think of it (though sometimes ineffectively myself) is that energy is a measure of time. You don't gain time by spamming abilities and keeping yourself at zero or near zero energy. You do effectively lose time if you cap energy because you are losing any energy gained while capped. However, for example, if you spend 20 energy, wait 3 seconds, spend 20 energy, etc, you have effectively lost nothing in terms of dps (i am simplifying here for the sake of understanding) assuming you never capped on energy during that period. I personally find playing this way also makes things a lot less hectic.
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