Register

Less snappy dots?

Face-rippin fun.

Moderator: Forum Administrators

Posts: 4
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 4:54 pm

Less snappy dots?

Postby zver » Tue Dec 17, 2013 12:30 pm

Hi all,
New cat here :D Thank you for being an awesome community, I've learned a lot!

I'm curious about dot class viability once they "remove" snapshotting (from what I understand, certain buffs will be snapshotted but others won't). I'm sure balancing around the current system has been difficult, and has lead to weirdness like a previous tier's trinket still being BiS. But it seems like fundamentally, snapshotting is necessary to make doing damage over time attractive.

Assuming there will still be procs and temporary boost mechanics in the expansion, how would it be "fair" for a Mage to get the full benefit of X pyroblasts during a proc, whereas only a portion of a dot's ticks get boosted? Will dot ticks get boosted by a bigger multiplier to compensate?

Exalted
User avatar
Posts: 1702
Joined: Mon May 24, 2010 10:21 pm

Re: Less snappy dots?

Postby Tinderhoof » Tue Dec 17, 2013 1:19 pm

They have not announced any changes yet, but we have been assured by a "VERY RELIABLE SOURCE" at blizzcon that Ferals will be up for a hefty re-working in Warlords. They fully understand how dependent we have become on snapshotting. I would speculate that we will see more damage moved back into our direct damage attacks like Shred. With the removal of Shreds positional requirement we have 0 reason for Mangle anymore unless it goes back to giving a buff or debuff of some kind.

Posts: 4
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 4:54 pm

Re: Less snappy dots?

Postby zver » Tue Dec 17, 2013 7:09 pm

Fair enough, thanks :)

I do hope it won't simply be a switch to shred+FB; it would kinda be just another rogue spec at that point with SR instead of Slice&Dice, Rip instead of Rupture, etc. But I guess they'd try to avoid that. Maybe switch combo points for some new resource or something.

Exalted
User avatar
Posts: 1471
Joined: Fri Nov 25, 2011 7:49 pm

Re: Less snappy dots?

Postby aggixx » Thu Dec 19, 2013 5:17 pm

Honestly I would be very dissapointed if we didn't get at least some damage shifted back into our direct damage attacks. I'm not looking for them to do 1/3rd of our damage but right now they're just pitiful, they almost might as well do 0 damage and we just hit them for the resources.
Image

Revered
User avatar
Posts: 326
Joined: Tue Oct 23, 2012 4:19 am

Re: Less snappy dots?

Postby Alpheus » Thu Dec 19, 2013 7:03 pm

aggixx wrote:Honestly I would be very dissapointed if we didn't get at least some damage shifted back into our direct damage attacks. I'm not looking for them to do 1/3rd of our damage but right now they're just pitiful, they almost might as well do 0 damage and we just hit them for the resources.


We don't have any notable synergies between direct damage abilities though (at the moment) so reverting to a DD rotation would be rather rubish with our current toolset.

I'd speculate based on recent Warlock, Frost Mage and Monk re/design that we might get a second mastery-based resource (stacks of some buff, something to complement combo points or bleed-based DD triggers - imagine LMG/cloak-esque). The real issue really is that ferals have a crapton of legacy utility which were "nerfed" in a way in the buff/debuff normalization after WotLK (trauma, constant SR changes, FF nerf, trinkets of doom in MoP + snapshotting) and we've been just pushed around based on the current patch meta-game resulting in less and less spec depth (though not necessarily less complexity).

I'm expecting a mangle/shred merge, a new combo point generator with added utility (e.g. flurry of blows) with a spec mastery or short CD which behaves like Finger of Frost (frost mage mastery) generated from our bleed dots. To speculate further, an overhaul to berserk wouldn't be unexpected, maybe something to synergize with the FoF mastery, maybe make bleeds tick faster (or just scale them with haste OR make our mastery increase tick speed instead of tick damage -> this would also solve our end-game, high-tier target swapping issues).

As for survivability and class utility, a MMO-C thread of ideas suggested to streamline HOTW for all ferals, removed symb and have a Dispersion-esque talent. I'd very much appreciate something to be done with Hibernate, Cyclone and Nature's Grasp, Soothe (pve-specific) as well.

While I'm making a list, WTB one more form-specific hotkey bar.
Image

Honored
User avatar
Posts: 167
Joined: Sun Apr 07, 2013 4:26 am

Re: Less snappy dots?

Postby Kraineth » Thu Dec 19, 2013 10:26 pm

As long as feral gets some good controlled burst i'd be happy, its pretty annoying when I need to burn Korven on paragons asap and never get any procs. Berserk is such an underwhelming ability it isn't even funny. Maybe shifting more damage into DD abilities would help sort this out. And maybe FB will be worth more than 1 Rip tick.

Revered
Posts: 349
Joined: Wed Jul 31, 2013 10:50 pm

Re: Less snappy dots?

Postby Tremnen » Fri Dec 20, 2013 9:48 am

Who in your raid takes the Rikkal Buff?

I use Nature's Vigil + It to burst Korven.

Revered
User avatar
Posts: 288
Joined: Fri Dec 24, 2010 1:57 pm

Re: Less snappy dots?

Postby Steakbomb » Fri Dec 20, 2013 3:42 pm

Most of the time in my raid I take the Rikkal buff along with NV and Savage Roar and I just cleave for the healing
Image

Revered
Posts: 349
Joined: Wed Jul 31, 2013 10:50 pm

Re: Less snappy dots?

Postby Tremnen » Fri Dec 20, 2013 3:46 pm

yeah I usually do about 200K HPS and ~1 million DPS in scorpion + NV + Savage Roar (for those 30 seconds)

Honored
User avatar
Posts: 167
Joined: Sun Apr 07, 2013 4:26 am

Re: Less snappy dots?

Postby Kraineth » Fri Dec 20, 2013 5:11 pm

I would have loved to use the Rikkal buff, but our fury warr was adamant about using it since he was seeing 6mil swipe crits. Plus we 6 healed so using NV wasn't too useful.

We kill kaztik before iyokuk(spelling?) cuz our ranged are lazy about switching to kunchongs so i need to use bubble+hotw+tranq since reave + firelines always matches up. Much more burst healing than scorpion.

Revered
Posts: 349
Joined: Wed Jul 31, 2013 10:50 pm

Re: Less snappy dots?

Postby Tremnen » Fri Dec 20, 2013 6:55 pm

i'm pretty positive you would do more damage as scorpion, as long as you make sure to have atleast 30 seconds of savage roar up (it amps scorpion damage) It also stacks with Nature's Vigil which happens to have the same duration and will allow you to heal for more than the damage you are taking for becoming the scorpion. Just an idea.

Exalted
User avatar
Posts: 508
Joined: Wed Jun 29, 2011 4:49 am

Re: Less snappy dots?

Postby Stenhaldi » Sat Dec 21, 2013 12:19 am

I doubt a non-tank is regularly getting 6M crits with swipe. Maybe just for the first hit if he had an enrage up? Still, warriors could do pretty well overall if the single-minded fury effect applies in scorpion form.

No damage dealing spec can compare to tanks, though. I finally had the opportunity to take the scorpion buff as feral and all I could think about was how much more fun it was to do it as guardian.

Honored
User avatar
Posts: 167
Joined: Sun Apr 07, 2013 4:26 am

Re: Less snappy dots?

Postby Kraineth » Sat Dec 21, 2013 1:12 pm

Ehh, doesnt really matter, we kill it just fine. He was saying enrage/mastery+avatar was working for the damage buff. I tried to get our tanks to take it but healers were complaining about the DoT even though its pretty insignificant overall.

Posts: 14
Joined: Tue Oct 15, 2013 11:16 pm

Re: Less snappy dots?

Postby Scryms » Sun Dec 22, 2013 5:09 am

Tanks do take a lot of damage while under the scorpion buff, but not because of the dot. They cannot use their active mitigation while under the buff, and they do so much damage that it's often hard for the other tank to keep aggro from them. On the other hand, they do SO much damage with vengeance and such that it is clearly worth it. High risk, high reward. (Still sad I can't get it :roll: )

Honored
User avatar
Posts: 167
Joined: Sun Apr 07, 2013 4:26 am

Re: Less snappy dots?

Postby Kraineth » Mon Dec 23, 2013 3:48 pm

We have a monk tank, id be suprised if stagger didn't work during the transform. And our monk always ends fights with minutes of shuffle left so i'm sure it wouldn't fall of during the buff.

Revered
User avatar
Posts: 288
Joined: Fri Dec 24, 2010 1:57 pm

Re: Less snappy dots?

Postby Steakbomb » Mon Dec 23, 2013 10:27 pm

Ran a flex last night and our Monk took Rikkal buff to get his achiev and he was doing like 450k overall
Image

Exalted
User avatar
Posts: 1471
Joined: Fri Nov 25, 2011 7:49 pm

Re: Less snappy dots?

Postby aggixx » Thu Dec 26, 2013 5:03 pm

Kraineth wrote:We have a monk tank, id be suprised if stagger didn't work during the transform. And our monk always ends fights with minutes of shuffle left so i'm sure it wouldn't fall of during the buff.

Both true, but he can't use elusive brew or purifying brew or any of his cooldowns (Guard, etc) which seriously wrecks your survivability regardless.
Image

Return to Kitty DPS

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests