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Need some Trinket Advice please

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Need some Trinket Advice please

Postby Maengorn » Sat Jan 04, 2014 12:25 pm

I am currently using RoR norm and AoC. I haven't had luck finding a heroic Lei Shen group :(. Anyways, I also have Ticking Ebon Detonator and Sigil of rampage. When i run the simulations on catus with the trinket sim it says that AoC and TED come out on top by like 3k higher than current. but if i equip them and reforge and then run a compare sim against my current setup with AoC and RoR my current always comes out on top. Should i switch out my rune or AoC for TED or leave it as is until i get a better RoR? any help would be greatly appreciated.

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Re: Need some Trinket Advice please

Postby Steakbomb » Sat Jan 04, 2014 1:58 pm

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=4784#p20851

I posted about this a while ago. Normal RoRo + Normal SoO trinket > 2 Normal SoO trinkets
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Re: Need some Trinket Advice please

Postby Maengorn » Sat Jan 04, 2014 5:23 pm

Steakbomb wrote:http://fluiddruid.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=4784#p20851

I posted about this a while ago. Normal RoRo + Normal SoO trinket > 2 Normal SoO trinkets


Thanks i didnt see that post. So would you use TED and RoR or Aoc and RoR? AoC and RoR seems to come out slightly above TED in my sim tests but that mastery and agi proc seem really nice.

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Re: Need some Trinket Advice please

Postby Steakbomb » Sat Jan 04, 2014 6:37 pm

Personally I would use AoC over TED as TED starts high but goes down every second so unless you are right on point and lucky with procs, it's hard to maximize the trinket. The passive Mastery is negligible so I wouldn't worry about that.

Use AoC and use WeakAuras to track the proc and especially the ICD on it so you know when it's available again.
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Re: Need some Trinket Advice please

Postby Maengorn » Sun Jan 05, 2014 6:14 pm

Steakbomb wrote:Personally I would use AoC over TED as TED starts high but goes down every second so unless you are right on point and lucky with procs, it's hard to maximize the trinket. The passive Mastery is negligible so I wouldn't worry about that.

Use AoC and use WeakAuras to track the proc and especially the ICD on it so you know when it's available again.


Thanks for the advice, i never thought about tracking the ICD before. Im going to stick with AoC and RoR. i feel a little bad for rolling on TED and winning it over the other ppl in raid to end up not using it.

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Re: Need some Trinket Advice please

Postby Alpheus » Mon Jan 06, 2014 8:24 am

Steakbomb wrote:Personally I would use AoC over TED as TED starts high but goes down every second so unless you are right on point and lucky with procs, it's hard to maximize the trinket. The passive Mastery is negligible so I wouldn't worry about that.


I disagree. Keep in mind that TED procs twice as often as AoC and the 20-stack application from TED is twice as powerful as the AoC one (it is equal at the mid-point, so 5 seconds in). So really the only way to get "unlucky with proc timing" is if you have the reaction time of a sloth. As for mastery, it's as negligible as the cooldown reduction on AoC.

Plus, it's RPPM so you will occasionally rank with a ridiculously high dps advantage.
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Re: Need some Trinket Advice please

Postby aggixx » Wed Jan 08, 2014 6:38 am

Alpheus wrote:Plus, it's RPPM so you will occasionally rank with a ridiculously high dps advantage.

Not only that but due to it's ridiculous peak agility value it can provide you with a bigger execute Rip than any other trinket if you get absurdly lucky.
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Re: Need some Trinket Advice please

Postby Tinderhoof » Wed Jan 08, 2014 1:26 pm

aggixx wrote:
Alpheus wrote:Plus, it's RPPM so you will occasionally rank with a ridiculously high dps advantage.

Not only that but due to it's ridiculous peak agility value it can provide you with a bigger execute Rip than any other trinket if you get absurdly lucky.

That's the trick of it though. "ABSURDLY LUCKY". I personally dislike TeD very much for a few reasons.
1. It has a secondary stat on it so swaping it out while using Rune is a major pain in the ass. Having AoC and Haromms be swappable is very nice depending on fight needs.
2. TeD can shine at the start of the fight and at the end of the fight. But if both are executed perfect then it really isn't that great. It also is only so so mid fight.

Freezy the other Feral I raid with used TeD for the first few weeks with the guild (he has a 580). At the start of a fight he would blow me away. But as the fights went on we would end up being very close. I would say neither of us is consistently higher. That was with me using both AoC and Haromms. Our weapons are the same, Rune's are the same and skill level is very close. When it comes down to it the difference between TeD and the other trinkets is so minimal that using it only makes sense if you are hoping for that one "Stars Align" pull that you rank on. Which in Freezy's case has never happened (which he has complained about). Not to say he doesn't rank, just the difference between a top 50 parse and a top 5 parse has not come from TeD being lucky at the start of BitW.

Right now on Garrosh progression we are both using AoC because having BS, SI, and Stampeding Roar on shorter cooldowns is pretty critical for us.

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Re: Need some Trinket Advice please

Postby Alpheus » Thu Jan 09, 2014 2:46 pm

Tinderhoof wrote:1. It has a secondary stat on it so swaping it out while using Rune is a major pain in the ass. Having AoC and Haromms be swappable is very nice depending on fight needs.


You can maintain your AoC + TED swap by just not optimizing the extra mastery from TED and use your AoC reforges (it will still keep mastery highest). This will allow you to take advantage of some of TED's RNG properties while still remaining dps neutral (assuming you don't need the CDR for defensives/roar)
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Re: Need some Trinket Advice please

Postby Tinderhoof » Thu Jan 09, 2014 3:06 pm

This will allow you to take advantage of some of TED's RNG properties while still remaining dps neutral

That's kinda what I am getting at though. It's inconsistent, and it's not DPS neutral. Sure you can get high swings in your DPS, but you aren't going to replicate what SIM's produce. For every 1 fight you get that perfect Rip line up for BitW you are going to get 10 with either no proc, or just poor line up. It's way worse for fights which you have to change targets a bunch like Spoils, Galakras and Paragons. You never see a BitW long enough for it to be worth it, and you only get that big opening once.

Don't pay attention to Sim's on this trinket. It's not that good.

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Re: Need some Trinket Advice please

Postby Alpheus » Thu Jan 09, 2014 4:11 pm

Tinderhoof wrote:
This will allow you to take advantage of some of TED's RNG properties while still remaining dps neutral

That's kinda what I am getting at though. It's inconsistent, and it's not DPS neutral. Sure you can get high swings in your DPS, but you aren't going to replicate what SIM's produce. For every 1 fight you get that perfect Rip line up for BitW you are going to get 10 with either no proc, or just poor line up. It's way worse for fights which you have to change targets a bunch like Spoils, Galakras and Paragons. You never see a BitW long enough for it to be worth it, and you only get that big opening once.

Don't pay attention to Sim's on this trinket. It's not that good.


That's a fair point, granted I still find it useful on Iron Jugg and Malkorok since they're such a ridiculous short fight that the pull and any other proc round cover a big chunk of the fight duration.
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Re: Need some Trinket Advice please

Postby Maengorn » Sat Jan 18, 2014 12:13 pm

I have been using AoC and RoR for my guild heroic progression. The reduced cd effect helps a lot with survivability but i did notice a slight drop in dps. Worth it in my opinion because a dead dps does no good. However, yesterday I won HT and ive been running some sims and AOC and HC come about 4-6k higher dps that AoC and RoR. does this seem right? should I replace my regular RoR with HC or keep it. Also is anyone else having trouble with Catus not finding their character on the WoW Armory after a realm merge?

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Re: Need some Trinket Advice please

Postby Sibylle » Sat Jan 18, 2014 3:46 pm

Did you run the sims with the appropriate reforging, e.g. equal secondary stats with mastery slightly ahead for rune, and mastery > crit > haste for the 2 SoO trinkets?
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Re: Need some Trinket Advice please

Postby Tinderhoof » Sat Jan 18, 2014 4:54 pm

If you just have normal Rune yes the heroic siege ones are going to be better.

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Re: Need some Trinket Advice please

Postby Maengorn » Sat Jan 18, 2014 10:45 pm

Tinderhoof wrote:If you just have normal Rune yes the heroic siege ones are going to be better.


All of my trinkets are from norm SoO.

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Re: Need some Trinket Advice please

Postby Tinderhoof » Sat Jan 18, 2014 11:34 pm

Both of the siege trinkets are way easier to use then Rune. If you feel you are getting the most out of Rune now, try to getting a higher version. For now use the siege trinkets.

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Re: Need some Trinket Advice please

Postby Maengorn » Sun Jan 19, 2014 2:47 am

So i just realized that i forgot to check AoC as being upgraded. oops.. here was the result after fixing that.

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Re: Need some Trinket Advice please

Postby Tinderhoof » Sun Jan 19, 2014 5:56 pm

Still assumes perfect play on average. No way you will be able to replicate those numbers. Stick with the siege trinkets.

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Re: Need some Trinket Advice please

Postby Stenhaldi » Sun Jan 19, 2014 7:48 pm

I would argue, actually, that the simulator is going to underperform a player using Rune (or any strong snapshotting trinket) -- and so I'd tend to value the Rune above where the simulator may place it.

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Re: Need some Trinket Advice please

Postby Tinderhoof » Mon Jan 20, 2014 12:44 pm

You seem to be making a general statement. My feedback was specific to the user asking the question. I disagree this specific player is going to see a better consistent return using Rune over SoO trinket.

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Re: Need some Trinket Advice please

Postby Maengorn » Mon Jan 20, 2014 7:42 pm

I also have TeD so I ran a sim on that too. I do like playing with RoR but it is annoying sometimes as well. I'm no expert but I know what I'm doing with dot snapshotting and trinket ICDs. But not having to worry about RoR would be nice. Here is the sim I ran with TeD

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Do you think i would do better with that combo instead of RoR? And would it be worth losing the increased recovery rate on CDs? Thanks in advance for the input.

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Re: Need some Trinket Advice please

Postby Tinderhoof » Mon Jan 20, 2014 8:38 pm

If you find Rune annoying you will like TED even less. With the count down buff it's great if you can do the "advanced TED" opener, but the trinket is still really inconstant. At this point if you want to try it, just try it. Still think you would be best served with AoC and HT.

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Re: Need some Trinket Advice please

Postby aggixx » Thu Jan 23, 2014 7:51 am

Tinder is right, you really shouldn't ever switch to TED for the sake of not having to worry about procs, that thing is real obnoxious. Not only is it finnicky and annoying on Patchwerk, but on anything else you get particularly screwed when it procs while you're running between targets or an otherwise lull in the combat, more so than other trinkets.

A lot of its value counts on the execute range too so if the fight doesn't really enable that then just forget it imo. Paragons is a great example of this, lots of target switching, lots of having to leave melee and stop attacking to deal with mechanics, and mostly nonexistant execute ranges makes the trinket pretty bad on that fight.
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Re: Need some Trinket Advice please

Postby Maengorn » Thu Jan 23, 2014 12:38 pm

aggixx wrote:Tinder is right, you really shouldn't ever switch to TED for the sake of not having to worry about procs, that thing is real obnoxious. Not only is it finnicky and annoying on Patchwerk, but on anything else you get particularly screwed when it procs while you're running between targets or an otherwise lull in the combat, more so than other trinkets.

A lot of its value counts on the execute range too so if the fight doesn't really enable that then just forget it imo. Paragons is a great example of this, lots of target switching, lots of having to leave melee and stop attacking to deal with mechanics, and mostly nonexistant execute ranges makes the trinket pretty bad on that fight.


The last two raid nights I tried out the TED and HT combo. I definitely noticed an increase in my DPS. I was top dps and damage on most fights. I even ranked on Iron juggernaut and paragons on world of logs.

Paragons: http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-50u02 ... 4#Maengorn

Iron Juggernaut: http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-c90p4 ... 5#Maengorn

Its window of opportunity is kinda small but if you get it you end up with some pretty strong bleeds. I am probably going to go with Tinderhoof's suggestion though for Garrosh tonight because I feel the decreased CD's from AoC is better than a little extra DPS for that fight. I haven't tried using AoC and HT for any other bosses yet but ill try that out next week and see how it compares to TED and HT unless I'm lucky enough to get my hands on a heroic RoR.

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Re: Need some Trinket Advice please

Postby aggixx » Thu Jan 23, 2014 4:14 pm

TED beats AoC handily, like 10-15k DPS or something in BiS gear, doesn't surprise me at all that making that swap would be a large damage boost. My statement was heavily based on the assumption of using Rune and picking the 2nd trinket slot, which means it's competing against HT not AoC, which closes the gap pretty considerably. There's also no denying that it's by far the best trinket for producing crazy outliers (ranking), at least out of the T16 trinkets.

And I should've clarified, I was talking about heroic Klaxxi where there's a lot more shenanigans going on. It's not a huge difference but it's a difference, on normal you can tunnel a bit more.
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