Register

BIS gear, nowhere near where I should be

Face-rippin fun.

Moderator: Forum Administrators

Posts: 9
Joined: Fri May 17, 2013 1:26 am

BIS gear, nowhere near where I should be

Postby corfish » Sun Jan 12, 2014 11:04 pm

Hi all,

I'm trying to figure out what I'm screwing up. My dps is pretty terrible for the gear. I'm probably missing a key add on or two. All I use for keeping track of anything is Ovale. I'm Shiftstains@Bonechewer. Here's a log of our raids this month. Please help!!

http://worldoflogs.com/guilds/1892/

Edit: Looking at high ranking players, everyone seems to be gemming and reforging differently.. not sure where they get skipping red gems completely and going with hybrids all around?

Posts: 9
Joined: Fri May 17, 2013 1:26 am

Re: BIS gear, nowhere near where I should be

Postby corfish » Mon Jan 13, 2014 3:49 am

Update: I believe I solved my problem. If a change from 300k to 370k on the practice dummy is indicative of a solution, then it's because I wasn't reforged for the biggest RoRo proc.

I'm pretty pissed about this in general, since all and every dps "guide" says to gem for pure agility. +1000 internets to the first person who can link any website that says to reforge for the biggest proc with rune equipped.

Posts: 17
Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2012 9:42 am

Re: BIS gear, nowhere near where I should be

Postby Azarri » Mon Jan 13, 2014 4:39 am

Secondary stat gemming only makes sense at very high gear levels, and even then it's a minor gain. It sims 1-2k dps higher than gemming Agility around the ilvl 570 mark so really its only worth doing if you are maximizing your toon. It certainly wouldn't be the reason you are pulling 70k more but then again a dummy is not an accurate way of testing damage; plus to do it properly it's time consuming having to wait in intervals for trinkets ect. You can compare the difference between Agi and Secondary gemming in Catus by selecting your choice of gem priority just under the Reforge section.

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=4767
While this link doesn't "tell" you to reforge with secondaries it's a discussion, many more posts can be found on other sites too like MMOChampion and Battle.net forums.

Exalted
User avatar
Posts: 1571
Joined: Fri Nov 25, 2011 7:49 pm

Re: BIS gear, nowhere near where I should be

Postby aggixx » Mon Jan 13, 2014 5:18 am

Secondary stat gems can be better if you're using a high enough item level Rune with high enough item level gear, but with your Rune it's not worth it. If you're getting higher results with secondary gems it's a fluke to RNG and/or a small sample size, they're pretty close in your gear but primaries will be better until you can get a better item level Rune.

I see that you're using Assurance instead of Rune in your logs (all of the ones I looked at at least) but your Rune is better by about 13.5k so you really should be using that. There's not really any situation where you want to swap out Rune, either.

Looking at this Malkorok log specifically: http://worldoflogs.com/reports/dstzab6b ... 02&e=10129
CompareBot link to a decent parse of mine with a similar duration: http://raidbots.com/comparebot/52d3a234 ... cad#damage

Savage Roar and Bleed uptimes are all fine, but they could all stand to be a tad higher (except for Thrash, your Thrash is pretty good). Your uptimes were 97.7%/94.8%/89.6%/86.9% for SR, Rake, Rip and Thrash respectively compared to my 99.8%/96.9%/95.3%/82.2%. It's possible the difference in those values are just RNG but there's a couple things to keep in mind. Frequently Ovale will let Rake expire before telling you to reapply it, the reason it's doing this is to get the damage of the last tick of a very strong rake, so when you see this happen you want to make sure to time your key press as soon after the dot expires as possible. While not really applicable on this fight, Savage Roar should be spammed anytime you're offtarget (like during IJ, since I noticed you do the stand crazy far away strat) so that you can always have a full SR whenever you start back up. Not attacking is no excuse for losing SR uptime, if anything it means it should be higher. Small differences in Rip uptimes are hard to judge based just on logs so I won't comment on that.

Cooldown usage looks okay for the most part, but it's kind of hard to comment on because I don't know what item level AoC you were using in the log. Your Tiger's Fury usage could stand to be a bit more consistent. Here's a graph for comparison, you can see all but 1 of my TFs happen less than 1 second after it comes off cooldown.
Image
Without having done the math, you probably could've fit one additional TF in the fight duration if your usage was more consistent. Make sure you can easily see the remaining cooldown on your Tiger's Fury so you know went to start dumping energy and you can be ready to hit it ASAP as it comes off cooldown. Berserk usage was fine with the fight duration, but you could have held your final Berserk to use with a trinket proc since it was clear you weren't going to fit another one (in this case it wouldn't have helped you but it's good practice nonetheless). Your second Berserking (racial) really should've been used during your potion or Berserk or something. Second potion was really not good although I suspect you probably were aware of that since it looks like you just forgot to use it. Your 3rd Assurance proc happened right around 20-30% and you also conveniently had chain Haromm's procs right around the same time, you really should've used your potion during your TF during that to put up your execute Rip (that's almost always what you're going to be trying to do with your potion). Looking at the log it looks you did all that but the potion, so the potion alone would've netted you an additional 708k damage or 2.2k DPS. If you do end up using Assurance, make sure you have a UI element that shows you how much time is left on it's cooldown, you really need to know that to plan appropriately for your execute Rip.

Predatory Swiftness usage could be a bit better, you only used 28 out of the 35 procs you had compared to my 31 out of 35. Make sure you're spending PS procs before doing low CP finishers (almost always Savage Roar). Unless it's during a TF with 4p proc up you're probably not going to be able to get back to 5 CP before the PS ends if you don't proc a new PS, and if you do proc a new PS you just wasted 30% damage on two abilities (and not always just fillers).

Some more general advice: Obviously Malkorok is a pretty straight forward encounter, and there's a lot of more abstract things that you may be losing damage to in other places where it's not really possible to do so on a Patchwerk-like encounter.

A very important thing that I think most players lose damage to is having an inadequate UI, make sure you have everything that you could possibly want to check in combat readily available for your reading and in a convenient place on your screen (having to look in a bunch of different corners to track buffs, CPs, debuffs, cooldowns, etc is very inefficient), around your character is a great place as that's where you should be looking most of the fight.

I know you're using Ovale, but you may be interested in tracking the strength of your bleeds seperate from that and there's a WeakAura that's very helpful for that.

Melee uptime, while probably not as important for us as for most classes, is a very important thing that's pretty hard to check logs for. If you aren't already, make sure you're planning the use of your movement abilities (T1 talents, Dash, Stampeding Roar) to maximize boss uptimes, especially when the boss is moving. Once you have these planned out per fight you generally don't need to change them.

I'm sure there's things I'm forgetting (it's such a long list of things to check! I should write it down sometime) so I may edit some more things into this post as I remember them. Overall I think the most apparent thing you're losing damage too just looking at that log is lack of a higher item level Rune, unfortunately.

PS: I'll make sure to update my guide including the secondary gem thing.
Image

Revered
User avatar
Posts: 397
Joined: Thu Jan 05, 2012 6:51 am
Location: Ireland

Re: BIS gear, nowhere near where I should be

Postby Sibylle » Mon Jan 13, 2014 8:48 am

aggixx wrote:... Frequently Ovale will let Rake expire before telling you to reapply it, the reason it's doing this is to get the damage of the last tick of a very strong rake, so when you see this happen you want to make sure to time your key press as soon after the dot expires as possible. ...

Is it really beneficial to let Rake drop altogether? I always assumed that if I refresh it with 1 or 2 seconds left, the tick would be "preserved". Did I get that completely wrong?
-Sibylle

"Not a shred of evidence exists in favor of the idea that life is serious." (Brendan Gill)

Exalted
User avatar
Posts: 1743
Joined: Mon May 24, 2010 10:21 pm

Re: BIS gear, nowhere near where I should be

Postby Tinderhoof » Mon Jan 13, 2014 12:55 pm

The extra tick is preserved, but not the strength of it. If your Rake was critting for 200k+ it's unlikely you would want to replace that final tick with a weaker Rake.

Revered
User avatar
Posts: 397
Joined: Thu Jan 05, 2012 6:51 am
Location: Ireland

Re: BIS gear, nowhere near where I should be

Postby Sibylle » Mon Jan 13, 2014 3:59 pm

Tinderhoof wrote:The extra tick is preserved, but not the strength of it. If your Rake was critting for 200k+ it's unlikely you would want to replace that final tick with a weaker Rake.

Oh man. I had no idea. Thanks a lot!
-Sibylle

"Not a shred of evidence exists in favor of the idea that life is serious." (Brendan Gill)

Exalted
User avatar
Posts: 1571
Joined: Fri Nov 25, 2011 7:49 pm

Re: BIS gear, nowhere near where I should be

Postby aggixx » Tue Jan 14, 2014 12:26 am

It's one of those odd edge case things. Like Tinder said, you can lose hundreds of thousands of damage from refreshing before the end of a very very strong to a weak one and that is a bigger deal than a couple tenths of a second of downtime.
Image

Posts: 9
Joined: Fri May 17, 2013 1:26 am

Re: BIS gear, nowhere near where I should be

Postby corfish » Tue Jan 14, 2014 6:12 pm

Wow, tons of info here. Thanks a ton, aggixx. I'll read this over a few a times and see if there's any questions.
:D

PS- Just to clarify, you believe I should be using normal WF Rune + heroic Haromm's over heroic Harrom's + normal WF AoC? And gemming agility, not secondary stats?

Exalted
User avatar
Posts: 1571
Joined: Fri Nov 25, 2011 7:49 pm

Re: BIS gear, nowhere near where I should be

Postby aggixx » Tue Jan 14, 2014 9:44 pm

That's correct. Generally AoC is not super useful unless it's of higher level than your alternatives because of its lower simulated DPS, although some people prefer to use it regardless on specific fights (Spoils, Siegecrafter, and Garrosh being the main ones).
Image

Revered
Posts: 384
Joined: Wed Jul 31, 2013 10:50 pm

Re: BIS gear, nowhere near where I should be

Postby Tremnen » Wed Jan 15, 2014 1:14 am

aggixx wrote:That's correct. Generally AoC is not super useful unless it's of higher level than your alternatives because of its lower simulated DPS, although some people prefer to use it regardless on specific fights (Spoils, Siegecrafter, and Garrosh being the main ones).


Why Garrosh?

Exalted
User avatar
Posts: 1571
Joined: Fri Nov 25, 2011 7:49 pm

Re: BIS gear, nowhere near where I should be

Postby aggixx » Wed Jan 15, 2014 3:45 am

For the personals, without it you can't have Barkskin on every Whirl I believe.
Image

Return to Kitty DPS

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google Feedfetcher and 7 guests