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some fundamental questions

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some fundamental questions

Postby istanu » Mon Jan 27, 2014 3:47 pm

Hello kitties, I've been playing feral for three months and I really love it. I'm working on improving my DPS and i'm trying to read through the sticky threads. But there are just some fundamental questions that I cant find the answer anywhere. So here I am.

1. What is the formula for Rip and Rake?
I know they are affected by attack power and mastery, but how? For example my rune of re-origination procs, and I gain 30000 extra mastery, I know my rip and rake becomes extremely stronger, so how do you calculate how much more stronger they become?

2. What does "Normal Damage" mean?
The description of Mangle on the spell book says it deals 500% normal damage. I know it is sort of your weapon damage but not exactly. But I couldn't find a detailed elaboration.
Basically what I want to do is to set a weakaura string to monitor my attack power and mastery, then to compare the direct damage of Rake to Mangle, so that I know when it is better to use Rake rather than Mangle to get combo points.

3. How does the Weakened Armor debuff affect feral's damage?
I remember vaguely that Weakened Armor debuff doesn't affect our bleed damage, but I cant find an authoritative source.
Since during the opener I feel the time is really tight, I only have a time window of 10 sec (which is the rune of re-origination proc) to apply a super super Rip. If I spend a GCD to apply the weakened armor debuff I have 80% chance to fail to apply my super Rip. So does it worth to delay the time of weakened armor?
To sum up, which spells are affected by Weakened Armor? Mangle, Rip, Ferocious Bite, Rake (the direct damage and the DOT)?

4. One question for all the questions above.
For all the questions I have, I cant find their answer from the in-game spell book, nor can I find them from Blizzard's website, so I'm really curious how do you guys get it?

Thank you, I appreciate your patience to read through all my questions.

Revered
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Re: some fundamental questions

Postby Stenhaldi » Mon Jan 27, 2014 4:54 pm

istanu wrote:1. What is the formula for Rip and Rake?
I know they are affected by attack power and mastery, but how? For example my rune of re-origination procs, and I gain 30000 extra mastery, I know my rip and rake becomes extremely stronger, so how do you calculate how much more stronger they become?

Rip tick: 113 + combo_points*(320 + 0.0484*attack_power)
Rake tick (and initial hit): 99 + 0.3*attack_power
Thrash initial hit: 1232 + 0.191*attack_power
Thrash tick: 686 + 0.141*attack_power

All of these scale by 1+mastery. Base mastery is 25.04% and every 600 mastery rating adds 3.13% mastery.

Remember that bleeds also snapshot crit chance. Average damage per tick scales by 1+crit_chance (assuming you don't have crit damage meta or amplification). Every 600 rating adds 1% crit chance and every 1259.5 (or so) agility adds 1% crit chance.

istanu wrote:2. What does "Normal Damage" mean?
The description of Mangle on the spell book says it deals 500% normal damage. I know it is sort of your weapon damage but not exactly. But I couldn't find a detailed elaboration.
Basically what I want to do is to set a weakaura string to monitor my attack power and mastery, then to compare the direct damage of Rake to Mangle, so that I know when it is better to use Rake rather than Mangle to get combo points.

Average "normal damage" is weapon_DPS + attack_power/14

It actually has a damage range, though. You can find the damage range as the "melee damage" on your character sheet, except you have to divide that by 2 to factor out the cat form autoattack buff.

istanu wrote:3. How does the Weakened Armor debuff affect feral's damage?
I remember vaguely that Weakened Armor debuff doesn't affect our bleed damage, but I cant find an authoritative source.
Since during the opener I feel the time is really tight, I only have a time window of 10 sec (which is the rune of re-origination proc) to apply a super super Rip. If I spend a GCD to apply the weakened armor debuff I have 80% chance to fail to apply my super Rip. So does it worth to delay the time of weakened armor?
To sum up, which spells are affected by Weakened Armor? Mangle, Rip, Ferocious Bite, Rake (the direct damage and the DOT)?

Armor does not affect rip, rake, thrash, pounce, or lacerate (including both direct and periodic damage from these attacks). It affects all your other physical attacks.

Damage mitigation from armor (in Mists of Pandaria) is armor / ( armor + 4037.5*attacker_level - 317117.5 )

Bosses have either 24835 or 24840 armor, not sure which. (The former value is the one confirmed by a blue post but the latter matches my measurements more closely.)

In particular, weakened armor is about a 4.4% damage boost to attacks that are affected by armor.

istanu wrote:4. One question for all the questions above.
For all the questions I have, I cant find their answer from the in-game spell book, nor can I find them from Blizzard's website, so I'm really curious how do you guys get it?

Experimentation mostly. You can find some information in the wowhead spell data or tooltips, but it's not always accurate or even sensible. Blizzard also occasionally posts information for theorycrafters, but it's not really indexed so you have to be keeping up with the blue posts to find it. Rarely you can also pull useful information from the API (like the 3.13% figure for mastery comes from GetMasteryEffect).
Last edited by Stenhaldi on Mon Jan 27, 2014 6:37 pm, edited 4 times in total.

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Re: some fundamental questions

Postby raffy » Mon Jan 27, 2014 5:38 pm

Catus doesn't show any of the equations, but you can compare and simulate these effects pretty easily.

You can test the value of Weakened Armor by running two two simulations w/debuff: "Always Weakened" vs "No Faerie Fire"
You can use the "Computable Statistics" section to see how various abilities scale with your procs.
You can use the "Custom Stats" section to add arbitrary amounts of stats to see their resulting effects.

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Re: some fundamental questions

Postby istanu » Sun Feb 02, 2014 4:49 pm

Thank you Stenhaldi, this really helps a lot.

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Re: some fundamental questions

Postby istanu » Sun Feb 02, 2014 4:51 pm

Raffy, that's a good idea. I've never thought about doing experiments with catus other than simulating my dummy dps.

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