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I need a crash course on expert level dream of cenarius usag

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I need a crash course on expert level dream of cenarius usag

Postby Tremnen » Tue Feb 04, 2014 1:56 pm

Hey guys been raiding as feral since the tail end of 5.3 (was guardian befor that). I've been really lazy about learning DoC and now am hitting a road block on DPS on heroic Garrosh progression. We are cutting it close on phase 3 on getting a 2nd empowered whirling so I am succumbing to learning DoC as it is the preferential dps talent.

Logs from recent attempts.

http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-6etwk ... 508&e=9107

I need every advanced tip on using DoC so I can sit behind a training dummy and practice. I am currently using Drood focus to track bleed strengths I assume its compatible with DoC. I use Tell me When to track buffs and debuffs is that good enough to track Predatory swiftness buffs ( I'm a bad kitty and largely ignore them in HotW) and DoC buffs?

I know the forums have been a bit slow recently but I'm hoping to hear some responses from some of you ferals that have killed Garrosh.

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Re: I need a crash course on expert level dream of cenarius

Postby Tremnen » Tue Feb 04, 2014 2:00 pm

Questions I have. Should I be trying to hold onto PS buffs as long as possible? During Harroms proc I have been rake spamming is that a dps loss to do with DoC if it overrides a buffed rake?

Also Garrosh specific how do you handle empowered mind controls? Do you target swap and just mangle/FB or just swipe off the boss?

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Re: I need a crash course on expert level dream of cenarius

Postby Paloro » Tue Feb 04, 2014 5:24 pm

Should I be trying to hold onto PS buffs as long as possible?
That really depends on the situation...but in general you want to hold them before a finisher just in case a trinket procs.

During Harroms proc I have been rake spamming is that a dps loss to do with DoC if it overrides a buffed rake?
It is indeed a dps loss even though the initial Rake application will hit harder then Mangle, you will be losing 30% of each tick for the duration of Rake.

Also Garrosh specific how do you handle empowered mind controls?
This depends on your group comp, but it seems your rogues won't be doing much damage to them since they aren't combat (our's found it wasn't a gain for them single target in p3 to go assassination). You should be fine to just swipe though.


As for DoC; the main benefit is due to having your Rip carry over for 2+ minutes as he is under 25%. I think what would make it easier is for you to drop FoN and use SotF so you can focus on getting your Rip rolling then dynamically updating Thrash/Rake. SotF will also allow you to get more high powered FB's in.
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Re: I need a crash course on expert level dream of cenarius

Postby Tremnen » Tue Feb 04, 2014 5:27 pm

right now I am running HotW + Trees I'd drop force of nature if I pick up DoC. Our rogues are sadly forced into subtlety so they can kill off the seige engineer in phase 1. they both wish they could be combat.

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Re: I need a crash course on expert level dream of cenarius

Postby Sniperfuchs » Tue Feb 04, 2014 5:31 pm

Getting your bleed uptimes above 90% would be a higher dps gain than DoC tbh. You should only use it if you are very comfortable with your uptimes.

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Re: I need a crash course on expert level dream of cenarius

Postby Paloro » Wed Feb 05, 2014 10:29 am

Tremnen wrote:right now I am running HotW + Trees I'd drop force of nature if I pick up DoC. Our rogues are sadly forced into subtlety so they can kill off the seige engineer in phase 1. they both wish they could be combat.


Without looking too deeply at the logs...are you letting Rip/Rake fall off in p3 for running out during empowered whirlings? That could be a huge source of why you are "low" with uptimes. I would recommend taking Displacer Beast so you can stay on the boss longer before blinking out or get back quicker as soon as whirling ends.

*I stopped playing about a month ago after we killed Garrosh, but here was our log from the kill (perhaps you can find it useful) Paloro's Garrosh Kill
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Re: I need a crash course on expert level dream of cenarius

Postby Tremnen » Wed Feb 05, 2014 10:58 am

It happens in phase 2 empowered whirls. Right now our strategy is def cooldown stack on him through the first empowered whirl of phase 3 and hope we don't get another one. There is one empowered whirl in phase 2 where I have to get out of melee because of lack of defensive cool downs.

I used DoC last night and netted an average 4k DPS loss which is definitely from lack of utilization of PS procs and some miss management of bleeds. I have until Sunday when we raid again so will be putting in some hours on a training dummy practicing. I tend be fucking up my opener quite a bit. Is it pre pull HT Prepot rake rake mangle beserk tf berserking mangle to 5 cp roar rake ht rake rip?

Displaced is a smart move ill shift to it. Might stop some issues I have in terrace of running faster than the tanks and grabbing aggro

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Re: I need a crash course on expert level dream of cenarius

Postby Tremnen » Wed Feb 05, 2014 11:14 am

When should I be using my potion for this? I feel that if in phase 2 after terrace intermission I should use it on a rune or double proc rip once he is below 15% and just ride it out.

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Re: I need a crash course on expert level dream of cenarius

Postby Paloro » Wed Feb 05, 2014 1:05 pm

My apologies, I confused p2 and p3 there.

Our strat had the entire raid moving as one unit at range for empowered whirlings so we didn't risk having extra adds spawn in melee.

The opener on Garrosh is a bit weird since you have the opportunity to cleave quite a bit (I was also told to since we were killing Garrosh way too fast). I linked my kill video at the bottom of the post, so hopefully it will help you out with some of the timing stuff. One thing you definitely don't want to do is hit Berserk before TF (since you cannot use TF during a Berserk)

*Paloro's Kill Video
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Re: I need a crash course on expert level dream of cenarius

Postby Tremnen » Wed Feb 05, 2014 3:33 pm

I obviously meant all three at once:p I have them macroed together. Our boss dps is... Lacking so I don't bother cleaving at any point if I don't have to. We are having pulls where from RNG or deaths we are getting a 2nd empowered whirling in phase 3 which is pretty much a wipe.

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Re: I need a crash course on expert level dream of cenarius

Postby Cetlysm » Wed Feb 05, 2014 3:57 pm

I think SotF is way better here because of the AoE to MC you have to do and because running out lets you resume and help you get those mega rips on the many BitW sections of the fight, plus it makes DoC a bit easier.
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Re: I need a crash course on expert level dream of cenarius

Postby Paloro » Wed Feb 05, 2014 4:23 pm

Tremnen wrote:Our boss dps is... Lacking so I don't bother cleaving at any point if I don't have to. We are having pulls where from RNG or deaths we are getting a 2nd empowered whirling in phase 3 which is pretty much a wipe.


In all seriousness, your boss dps WILL be lacking when you take 3 frost death knights, 3 shadow priests, an elemental shaman, and a windwalker to heroic Garrosh.
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Re: I need a crash course on expert level dream of cenarius

Postby Tremnen » Wed Feb 05, 2014 5:38 pm

Cetlysm wrote:I think SotF is way better here because of the AoE to MC you have to do and because running out lets you resume and help you get those mega rips on the many BitW sections of the fight, plus it makes DoC a bit easier.


I use SotF since i am now using DoC. With HotW I use Treants.

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Re: I need a crash course on expert level dream of cenarius

Postby Tremnen » Wed Feb 05, 2014 5:39 pm

Paloro wrote:
Tremnen wrote:Our boss dps is... Lacking so I don't bother cleaving at any point if I don't have to. We are having pulls where from RNG or deaths we are getting a 2nd empowered whirling in phase 3 which is pretty much a wipe.


In all seriousness, your boss dps WILL be lacking when you take 3 frost death knights, 3 shadow priests, an elemental shaman, and a windwalker to heroic Garrosh.


I agree. I think we have 9 melee dps. 4 are strength dps and in all of our farm weeks we only saw 2 thoks drop one in normal and once in heroic. which is kinda sad :/

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Re: I need a crash course on expert level dream of cenarius

Postby Simbba » Mon Feb 10, 2014 5:45 pm

I run FoN & DoC for H Garrosh works great for me, the energy loss the treants make up for it with the dmg. I'm able to keep my bleeds up full time with no issues as for movement would displacer beast be better than feline swiftness? P4 having issues once in a while avoiding bombardment.(I'm in the group that stays behind for malice)

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Re: I need a crash course on expert level dream of cenarius

Postby Paloro » Tue Feb 11, 2014 10:03 am

Simbba wrote:I run FoN & DoC for H Garrosh works great for me, the energy loss the treants make up for it with the dmg. I'm able to keep my bleeds up full time with no issues as for movement would displacer beast be better than feline swiftness? P4 having issues once in a while avoiding bombardment.(I'm in the group that stays behind for malice)


Check out my kill video I linked earlier. I used the shit out of DB to get away from fire.
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Re: I need a crash course on expert level dream of cenarius

Postby Dargaron » Tue Feb 11, 2014 11:20 am

OK, so this is normal Garrosh not Heroic. When we get empowered whirls, I pop survival instincts and our healers are nice enough to keep me topped up. Is this doable on heroic?

Our most recent log is here. It's by no means fantastic. My thrash uptime is terrible, and I need to work on keeping my rake and rip up more. But I don't know how much of that log takes into account the parts where I'm between phases running around.

This could be completely wrong, but this is how I choose to use DoC:

  • At the start when the reinforcements come out, I'll get a finisher off on Garrosh, HT, and then thrash + swipe on the adds. I try to keep a DoC'd thrash up on the adds.
  • If I'm about to use a finisher and I still have a DoC proc to use - then I use it, cast the finisher, and then see if I can use the second DoC empowerment on a rake or thrash.
  • I only cast the healing touch at 4 or 5 CP and make sure I use it on a rake, rip or bite (in that order)

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Re: I need a crash course on expert level dream of cenarius

Postby Tremnen » Thu Feb 13, 2014 3:26 pm

my group wont let melee without immunties go in during empowered whirls. I do it anyways though for one of them by using SI+Barkskin at the same time That + a health stone and I come out fine. Barkskin alone isnt strong enough though.

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Re: I need a crash course on expert level dream of cenarius

Postby Tremnen » Thu Feb 13, 2014 3:50 pm

Been practicing since the day I posted this topic. Here are updated logs. Biggest problem I have seen is some wasted PS Procs and I still flub up the opener (but this isnt important because honestly only phase 2 onward DPS is important in this fight.

http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-2p6sh ... &target=61

If you see anything glaring please tell me how bad I am. Would be very appreciated.

Edit: Its worth noting that since I started using DoC we have had several pulls with only a single EWC in Phase 2. Another notable change is one of our fire mages went frost.

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Re: I need a crash course on expert level dream of cenarius

Postby Tremnen » Sun Feb 16, 2014 10:39 pm

Garrosh downed tonight :D.

Thanks for the help guys.

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