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Pawkets' Feral DPS Guide & FAQ -- Updated for 6.2.3!

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Re: Pawkets' Feral DPS Guide & FAQ -- Updated for 6.0!

Postby Sashimi » Tue Nov 25, 2014 2:07 am

Nayni wrote:
Sashimi wrote:I have a few question i am a returning feral player so here i go

1- Read the guide its just awesome good work! but... incarnation is better then SOTF now? can anyone explain why?

2- what would be the king talent in the level 60 bracket and can anyone explain to me scenarios which one would be better like treants..

been using SOTF along time and always understood that it was top for awesome sustain... but i have been reading on multiple blogs, posts, etc that Incarnation is better hands down, or using treants is a good alternative.

can anyone help a brotha out and explain this is for raiding your guys input and help would be greatly appreciated ^.^


Incarnation just has a great value for bursting. Also with the level 100 rake perk it makes Incarnation extremely good as you gain all the benefits from beeing stealthed meaning the rakes you apply with Incarnation are double in value.

SotF is indeed a great talent for long time sustained damage. Hower currently the burst spikes you gain from using Incarnation are just to good with all the perks we gained at level 100.


I wouldn't know what the best talent would be at the level 60 bracket, but I'd image it would be incarnation aswell. There aren't any long duration situationyou'll find yourself into at level 60 so bursting would always be more benefitial. Maybe Treants comes close but I honestly can't tell.


thanks for your response when raids come out ima give it a try looks like alot of fun ^.^

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Re: Pawkets' Feral DPS Guide & FAQ -- Updated for 6.0!

Postby aggixx » Tue Nov 25, 2014 5:27 am

Updated the enchant section regarding weapon enchants following a handful of changes in SimulationCraft that improved the accuracy of Mark of the Shattered Hand implementation.
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Re: Pawkets' Feral DPS Guide & FAQ -- Updated for 6.0!

Postby Amitty » Tue Nov 25, 2014 5:30 am

Can you please add the exact numbers of the stat weights for Single, AoE, 2 Boss and Council fights too?

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Re: Pawkets' Feral DPS Guide & FAQ -- Updated for 6.0!

Postby aggixx » Tue Nov 25, 2014 5:40 am

There are reports linked at the bottom of the Stat Priority section, you can find exact values there.
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Re: Pawkets' Feral DPS Guide & FAQ -- Updated for 6.0!

Postby Fayled » Tue Nov 25, 2014 9:44 am

aggixx wrote:Updated the enchant section regarding weapon enchants following a handful of changes in SimulationCraft that improved the accuracy of Mark of the Shattered Hand implementation.


Do you have the numbers for that? Still seeing a loss as soon as you hit normal gear crit levels.

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Re: Pawkets' Feral DPS Guide & FAQ -- Updated for 6.0!

Postby Nazathul » Tue Nov 25, 2014 1:52 pm

Two questions.. Does the new approved enchant also have synergy with our 2 piece? This question can probably only be answered by some one with beta experience seeing as we can't get t17 right now.
Also I have seen ppl talk bout opening sequence but I have combed thru this thread and can't find an suggested opening thread. Is it a gain to open with Incarnation Beserk or should we try to get a Rip up and let SR start to fall off b4 popping it? This question goes for both 5 mans and Raids.. Ty

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Re: Pawkets' Feral DPS Guide & FAQ -- Updated for 6.0!

Postby Alcootest » Tue Nov 25, 2014 1:55 pm

Hi,

I've got a little question about the pull :

What is it better ?
____________________________
1st :

- HT
- Prowl
- rake
- shred
- shred
- TF
- Incarnation: King of the Jungle
- Berserk
- shred
- rip

______________________

Or 2cd :

- HT
- Prowl
- shred
- incarnation
- +1 sec Berserk
- TF
- rake
- shred (to 5cp)
- Rip

______________________

Or 3th

- HT
- Prowl
- shred
- incarnation
- +1 sec Berserk
- TF
- rake
- shred (to 5cp)
- FB
- shred (to 4 cp)
- HT
- shred
- rip


I think the third but i'm not sure.


PS : sorry for the english i'm french and my english is not very good !

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Re: Pawkets' Feral DPS Guide & FAQ -- Updated for 6.0!

Postby Tinderhoof » Tue Nov 25, 2014 2:19 pm

Nazathul wrote:Does the new approved enchant also have synergy with our 2 piece?

I didn't use this during the beta when I was testing. I did get word through twitter that it doesn't count as "Our" bleed which is why it doesn't benefit from Mastery. Pretty sure the 2p explicitly gets energy from our Rake, Rip, and Cat Thrash ticks.

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Re: Pawkets' Feral DPS Guide & FAQ -- Updated for 6.0!

Postby Tinderhoof » Tue Nov 25, 2014 2:25 pm

Alcootest wrote:What is it better ?

Personally I think it's not worth opening in prowl right now due to all the things that can go wrong. What I have been doing is:
HT
Incarnation -1 before pull + Potion
Rake (SR procs from glyph)
Shred to 5 or energy depletion
TF+Berserk
Rip

You are protected from losing prowl by early tank pulls or aoe damage and you don't lose the first second of TF and Berserk to the Incarnation GCD.

EDIT: Forgot to stick a potion in there.

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Re: Pawkets' Feral DPS Guide & FAQ -- Updated for 6.0!

Postby aggixx » Tue Nov 25, 2014 3:23 pm

Fayled wrote:Do you have the numbers for that? Still seeing a loss as soon as you hit normal gear crit levels.

The changes were very recent so if you're using SimulationCraft as your measuring stick its likely you're using a version that doesn't include the necessary changes.

Image

As you'd expect, the gap narrows as you raise the gear level higher and higher. It seems that Thunderlord overtakes it when approach full Mythic Gear and I've updated the guide to reflect this.

Nazathul wrote:Two questions.. Does the new approved enchant also have synergy with our 2 piece? This question can probably only be answered by some one with beta experience seeing as we can't get t17 right now.
Also I have seen ppl talk bout opening sequence but I have combed thru this thread and can't find an suggested opening thread. Is it a gain to open with Incarnation Beserk or should we try to get a Rip up and let SR start to fall off b4 popping it? This question goes for both 5 mans and Raids.. Ty

I don't think so but I'm not certain. For the longest time on beta the Shattered Hand enchant was not available to players, and I'm not sure if it ever was at all.

Tinderhoof wrote:I didn't use this during the beta when I was testing. I did get word through twitter that it doesn't count as "Our" bleed which is why it doesn't benefit from Mastery. Pretty sure the 2p explicitly gets energy from our Rake, Rip, and Cat Thrash ticks.

It doesn't explicitly state what it affects ("Dealing bleed damage generates 1 Energy."), so it could go either way.

Re: Opener Questions: What Tinder said is a solid way to go. Of course an alternative would be to use Prowl but the idea is basically the same.
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Re: Pawkets' Feral DPS Guide & FAQ -- Updated for 6.0!

Postby Tinderhoof » Tue Nov 25, 2014 3:46 pm

aggixx wrote:It doesn't explicitly state what it affects ("Dealing bleed damage generates 1 Energy."), so it could go either way.

Going to have to trust me on this one. It's explicit to those 3 cat abilities (and the 4p which I forgot about).

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Re: Pawkets' Feral DPS Guide & FAQ -- Updated for 6.0!

Postby aggixx » Tue Nov 25, 2014 3:49 pm

Oh, I misread and thought you were saying it explicitly stated that. Yeah I get what you're saying.
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Re: Pawkets' Feral DPS Guide & FAQ -- Updated for 6.0!

Postby Tinderhoof » Tue Nov 25, 2014 3:54 pm

Something I also just remembered. During the beta testing it was discovered that Rake and Thrash initial hits do not trigger the 2p. Only the resulting bleed ticks. I was told on twitter this was expected.

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Re: Pawkets' Feral DPS Guide & FAQ -- Updated for 6.0!

Postby aggixx » Tue Nov 25, 2014 3:56 pm

Yup, I recall and it's already implemented that way in SimulationCraft :D
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Re: Pawkets' Feral DPS Guide & FAQ -- Updated for 6.0!

Postby Chimmichango » Tue Nov 25, 2014 5:48 pm

Tinderhoof wrote:
Alcootest wrote:What is it better ?

Personally I think it's not worth opening in prowl right now due to all the things that can go wrong. What I have been doing is:
HT
Incarnation -1 before pull + Potion
Rake (SR procs from glyph)
Shred to 5 or energy depletion
TF+Berserk
Rip

You are protected from losing prowl by early tank pulls or aoe damage and you don't lose the first second of TF and Berserk to the Incarnation GCD.

EDIT: Forgot to stick a potion in there.


Thanks for this. I've been having some trouble with Prowl breaking for silly things or the Tank pulling early putting me behind. I'm gonna try this tonite.

One question....Shouldn't we always use Berserk before TF because of the Berserk Perk?

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Re: Pawkets' Feral DPS Guide & FAQ -- Updated for 6.0!

Postby aggixx » Tue Nov 25, 2014 6:03 pm

If you're below 40 energy it doesn't matter either way, but yes might as well.
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Re: Pawkets' Feral DPS Guide & FAQ -- Updated for 6.0!

Postby Tinderhoof » Tue Nov 25, 2014 6:06 pm

I'm used to just typing it that way for the last several expansions before the Berserk change. Won't hurt to put it that way.

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Re: Pawkets' Feral DPS Guide & FAQ -- Updated for 6.0!

Postby TribalBeast » Tue Nov 25, 2014 6:15 pm

Chimmichango wrote:
Tinderhoof wrote:
Alcootest wrote:What is it better ?

Personally I think it's not worth opening in prowl right now due to all the things that can go wrong. What I have been doing is:
HT
Incarnation -1 before pull + Potion
Rake (SR procs from glyph)
Shred to 5 or energy depletion
TF+Berserk
Rip

You are protected from losing prowl by early tank pulls or aoe damage and you don't lose the first second of TF and Berserk to the Incarnation GCD.

EDIT: Forgot to stick a potion in there.



Thanks for this. I've been having some trouble with Prowl breaking for silly things or the Tank pulling early putting me behind. I'm gonna try this tonite.

One question....Shouldn't we always use Berserk before TF because of the Berserk Perk?


Doesn't matter that much but I use both at the same time generally. :p

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Re: Pawkets' Feral DPS Guide & FAQ -- Updated for 6.0!

Postby Tinderhoof » Tue Nov 25, 2014 6:38 pm

He is talking about using them at the same time. But it's still a sequence. If TF goes first you gain all your energy before your max gets set to 150 by the Berserk perk. The question is legit, I just typed it out in that order as a habit. It's likely better for folks to adopt the changed order. Folks who don't need it won't notice it anyway, and those that do will benefit.

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Re: Pawkets' Feral DPS Guide & FAQ -- Updated for 6.0!

Postby Natrixx » Wed Nov 26, 2014 3:43 am

Hello,

Concerning question about opening, what should we do at our 2nd combo points rotation : refresh Rip with Bloodtalons buff or simply FB? (actually, that question isn't only for opening : I always ask if I should better refresh Rip with buff(s) or FB?)

And is that not a good idea to keep TF for this 2nd combo rotation to refresh Rake and Rip with Bloodtalons AND TF? Concerning that during Berserk, we meaby have enough energy

That give the next rotation :
-5s : HT
-1s : Incarnation+potion
PULL
Rake
Shred until 5cp
Rip
Berserk
Shred until 4cp
HT
TF+Rake
Rip or FB?


That delay a lot our first TF and Berserk but it may worth it?
Thanks

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Re: Pawkets' Feral DPS Guide & FAQ -- Updated for 6.0!

Postby aggixx » Wed Nov 26, 2014 5:04 am

As outlined in the guide you never want to overwrite a Rip early unless you're in execute (sub-25%) range, you're always better off Ferocious Biting. Don't postpone your TF, use it before your first Rip and you can take advantage of Berserk and its perk to prevent TF wasting energy if you somehow reach 5 CP with a high amount.
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Re: Pawkets' Feral DPS Guide & FAQ -- Updated for 6.0!

Postby Natrixx » Wed Nov 26, 2014 5:42 am

Thanks Aggixx, didn't see in the guide it was explain...

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Re: Pawkets' Feral DPS Guide & FAQ -- Updated for 6.0!

Postby Amitty » Wed Nov 26, 2014 8:01 am

The opener with Incarnation+Pot Macro is indeed the best one, but I still Prowl before that to position myself nicely.

I have a very specific question regarding Ferocious Bite during Berserk which I keep forgetting to test, so I'm going to ask.

As we all know Berserk reduces the energy cost of our abilities by 50%, but what about the extra energy used for empowered Ferocious Bite? FB during Berserk costs 12.5, but how much does the empowered FB costs --- 12.5 + 12.5 or 12.5 + 25 ?

PS : Try to get your hands on a lot of Raw Talbuk Meat and Crescent Saberfish Flesh(turn it into Crescent Oil) since those are the two mats required for the Draenic Agility Potions.

PS2 : My face when someone linked me this item.

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Re: Pawkets' Feral DPS Guide & FAQ -- Updated for 6.0!

Postby Tremnen » Wed Nov 26, 2014 11:10 am

Crescent Saber Flesh is going to be really cheap on the AH as it is caught most often of all fish in every zone unless you are using bait. If you want a fish to go for go for the gulpers in Spires as they are needed in our 100 stat food (unless your guild has a ton of barns producing 100 stat feasts). I am away from game but I believe you also need boar ribs for the 100 stat crit food.

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Re: Pawkets' Feral DPS Guide & FAQ -- Updated for 6.0!

Postby Twitchys » Wed Nov 26, 2014 12:17 pm

Berserk also reduces the additional consumption of Ferocious Bite. The resulting energy needed for 100% multiplier is:

Base : 50
Berserk : 25
OOC : 25
Berserk+OOC: 12.5

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