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Let's talk about logs (Gearing and Execution advise) 4.3

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Re: Let's talk about logs (Gearing and Execution advise) 4.3

Postby Konungr » Mon Jan 23, 2012 1:07 pm

Pìxèl wrote:Help with reforging

The reforging as usual confuses me this patch, if possible could someone give me stat weights to use on wowreforge for my current gear setup (prefer 8% hit and 26exp)

http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/bronzebeard/P%C3%ACx%C3%A8l/advanced

Thanks in advance guys.

Pixel



What are you looking for? By the looks of your armory you are following the default WoW Reforge stat weights I set up prior to 4.2, what seems to be the problem?

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Re: Let's talk about logs (Gearing and Execution advise) 4.3

Postby Pìxèl » Mon Jan 23, 2012 2:13 pm

Konungr wrote:
Pìxèl wrote:Help with reforging

The reforging as usual confuses me this patch, if possible could someone give me stat weights to use on wowreforge for my current gear setup (prefer 8% hit and 26exp)

http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/bronzebeard/P%C3%ACx%C3%A8l/advanced

Thanks in advance guys.

Pixel



What are you looking for? By the looks of your armory you are following the default WoW Reforge stat weights I set up prior to 4.2, what seems to be the problem?


Thanks for replying, was basically looking to see if I could improve on my reforging in anyway. I have tried a haste reforge previously and then changed to this a week or so ago. Basically looking for clarification that what I have at the moment is optimal for the current gear set that I have.

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Re: Let's talk about logs (Gearing and Execution advise) 4.3

Postby Tinderhoof » Mon Jan 23, 2012 2:58 pm

Hi Pixel.

Right now there is no real "Right Way To Do It". While each reforging method has it's ups and downs the difference is so tiny that no way comes out the clear winner. Unless you plan on reforging every fight what you have right now will do just fine.

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Re: Let's talk about logs (Gearing and Execution advise) 4.3

Postby Moonsuken » Mon Jan 23, 2012 3:03 pm

Thanks for the quick and insightful replies! One more question for you. Am I better off using the heroic hungerer with 433 agi and getting the haste proc or am I better off using a normal stabilizer with 406 agi and getting a 1624 mastery proc (it being my highest stat) for 30 seconds? Thanks.

Armory - http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/kilrogg/Moonsuken/simple

Edit - Also, what is the best combination as far as trinkets go? Ty

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Re: Let's talk about logs (Gearing and Execution advise) 4.3

Postby Pìxèl » Mon Jan 23, 2012 3:39 pm

Tinderhoof wrote:Hi Pixel.

Right now there is no real "Right Way To Do It". While each reforging method has it's ups and downs the difference is so tiny that no way comes out the clear winner. Unless you plan on reforging every fight what you have right now will do just fine.

Ok thanks guys, helpfull as always <3

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Re: Let's talk about logs (Gearing and Execution advise) 4.3

Postby Tinderhoof » Mon Jan 23, 2012 6:10 pm

Moonsuken wrote:Thanks for the quick and insightful replies! One more question for you. Am I better off using the heroic hungerer with 433 agi and getting the haste proc or am I better off using a normal stabilizer with 406 agi and getting a 1624 mastery proc (it being my highest stat) for 30 seconds? Thanks.

Armory - http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/kilrogg/Moonsuken/simple

Edit - Also, what is the best combination as far as trinkets go? Ty

For overall DPS the best trinket combo would be the Heroic Vial, and Heroic Wrath of Unchaining. However using the Kryptographic Sigil for fights with burn phases can be very powerful if you can have great timing.

For you I would keep the Hungerer for the agility boost. Both proc's can be wasted because they proc'd at a bad time, but agility is always your friend.

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Re: Let's talk about logs (Gearing and Execution advise) 4.3

Postby Moonsuken » Mon Jan 23, 2012 9:10 pm

Tinderhoof wrote:
Moonsuken wrote:Thanks for the quick and insightful replies! One more question for you. Am I better off using the heroic hungerer with 433 agi and getting the haste proc or am I better off using a normal stabilizer with 406 agi and getting a 1624 mastery proc (it being my highest stat) for 30 seconds? Thanks.

Armory - http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/kilrogg/Moonsuken/simple

Edit - Also, what is the best combination as far as trinkets go? Ty

For overall DPS the best trinket combo would be the Heroic Vial, and Heroic Wrath of Unchaining. However using the Kryptographic Sigil for fights with burn phases can be very powerful if you can have great timing.

For you I would keep the Hungerer for the agility boost. Both proc's can be wasted because they proc'd at a bad time, but agility is always your friend.


Thanks

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Re: Let's talk about logs (Gearing and Execution advise) 4.3

Postby Viray » Thu Feb 02, 2012 4:37 am

Here's my latest log from Madness and my armory:

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/5ls61sd07xd41i72/details/8/?s=1443&e=2255

http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/burning-legion/Maelcum/advanced

I think I know what I'm doing by now, I even got ranked on WoL. But I also know that there is always a room for improvement - so, is there anything I should optimize in my gameplay?

Thanks in advance,
V
Someday, someone will best me. But it won't be today - and it won't be you.

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Re: Let's talk about logs (Gearing and Execution advise) 4.3

Postby Aneko » Sun Feb 05, 2012 12:48 pm

New to posting, long time lurker. I would really appreciate advice on reforging and execution please. I am linking my armory profile and a world of logs link. I don't feel that I'm terrible by any means, but I know that there are areas in which I can improve.

Thanks in advance!

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/u ... o/advanced

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-j ... 902&e=1151

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Re: Let's talk about logs (Gearing and Execution advise) 4.3

Postby Puna » Sun Feb 05, 2012 11:40 pm

Super busy week last week with school and still 2 midterms left. Will get to everyone Tuesday night probably. Sorry for the delay.

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Re: Let's talk about logs (Gearing and Execution advise) 4.3

Postby Pìxèl » Mon Feb 06, 2012 8:26 am

Tinderhoof wrote:Hi Pixel.

Right now there is no real "Right Way To Do It". While each reforging method has it's ups and downs the difference is so tiny that no way comes out the clear winner. Unless you plan on reforging every fight what you have right now will do just fine.


Could I ask Tinderhoof, we are trying Ultraxion heroic for the first time this week. Is it still better going with my current reforge for this fight? Or worth tweaking it a bit?

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Re: Let's talk about logs (Gearing and Execution advise) 4.3

Postby Puna » Mon Feb 06, 2012 10:54 am

Your reforging is fine. As long as your hit/exp capped reforging for haste/mastery is only going to make a minor difference. Just make sure you glyph for Mangle and you'll do just fine.

Good luck on Ultrax, and grats on your Yor'sahj kill!

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Re: Let's talk about logs (Gearing and Execution advise) 4.3

Postby Pìxèl » Mon Feb 06, 2012 2:05 pm

Puna wrote:Your reforging is fine. As long as your hit/exp capped reforging for haste/mastery is only going to make a minor difference. Just make sure you glyph for Mangle and you'll do just fine.

Good luck on Ultrax, and grats on your Yor'sahj kill!

Thanks Puna and yes i always change glyphs for this fight. Was nice to get Yor down this week ;p

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Re: Let's talk about logs (Gearing and Execution advise) 4.3

Postby Puna » Wed Feb 08, 2012 12:57 am

Image

Tinder and puna, getting it done right. Just puna doing it, slightly better. Ranking without cheese spamming yellow/black.

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Re: Let's talk about logs (Gearing and Execution advise) 4.3

Postby Tinderhoof » Wed Feb 08, 2012 2:57 am

And I did that with a full Mastery>Crit>Haste reforge.

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Re: Let's talk about logs (Gearing and Execution advise) 4.3

Postby Sibylle » Wed Feb 08, 2012 1:16 pm

Gratz both, that's one amazing performance! Something to aspire to :D
-Sibylle

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Re: Let's talk about logs (Gearing and Execution advise) 4.3

Postby Marandas » Thu Feb 09, 2012 9:57 am

Hey guys, long-time feral, first time poster here.

Question about mid-fight feral charge. I thought this was supposed to be worth it? I ran my gear through Mew, with and without mid-encounter ravage enabled, and the difference in dps was negligible. Details:
- two second travel time. Just an estimate .. I get about 10 fps and good latency in my raids. Am I over-estimating (or a slow charger)?
- full raid buffs, 360s fight, 10k iterations, full cat spec
results: without mid-fight charging: 43652.9 dps
with mid-fight charging: 43654.6 dps
error of ~16 dps and standard deviation of ~810 dps in both cases.

Are you guys seeing similar results? If this is accurate, I'm going to stop charging on cooldown and only do it above 80% boss health or if it looks like I'll need the extra combo points in order to get my next rip / SR up in time.

My toon is http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/eonar/Marandas/advanced, in case that's relevant.

Thanks.

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Re: Let's talk about logs (Gearing and Execution advise) 4.3

Postby Puna » Thu Feb 09, 2012 10:27 am

It's dps neutral to a slight gain to mid fight charge/ravage. It demands good judgement

I personally only do it when:

Rip will be refreshed by FB, or is >12 seconds, and rake wont fall off
Only if I can TF/ravage run out and charge and have the second ravage benefit from TF, while still refreshing rake with a TF
Kiril's Proc is stacking/stacked.

But that's just me, Tinder will probably call me bad and set it straight, he's better at this stuff then I am.

but damn, wtb your luck with gear drops, im still sitting at 396ilvl.

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Re: Let's talk about logs (Gearing and Execution advise) 4.3

Postby Tinderhoof » Thu Feb 09, 2012 2:51 pm

I won't call Puna bad here. I only do that to his face.

I really think that a 2 second run out and charge back you are setting in Mew is optimistic at best. Sure you could likely pull this off on dummies with some practice. But with bosses who have large and small hit boxes and move during the encounters trying to get out and back within 2 seconds is likely not achievable with any consistency (which is how Mew is simulating). What happens when you set it to 3 seconds? If you were to try this how would you go about the running out?

On top of this I don't really see any encounters this tier were running out and charging back would be either practical or useful.
- Morchock: I use the charge to open and to get back in from the black phase.
- Zon'Ozz (Heroic): I use it to open the boss, and help gap close and burst eye stalks. Normal is likely to dangerous with the debuff folks need to get out for and the orb.
- Yor'Sahj: FC lines up perfect with the ooze phases. Helps you gap close and burst every single one. If you get lucky enough to stay on the boss it's perfect for a target swap to the Mana Orb.
- Hagara: Running out can get you stacks of Ice Lance which is bad. Better to use for the open, hitting the spires, and open after Ice/Electric phase.
- Ultrax: No FC for you!
- Blackhorn: To useful for target swaps, and this fight hates melee enough without complicating it further.
- Spine: FUCK THIS FIGHT. That is all.
- Madness: Only thing you can charge is the shard and the adds at the end.

The situations that Puna describes could work and can make for spicing up a boring fight you have done a million times. I don't think there is anything wrong with trying. Though doing it on cooldown is not likely to even come out dps neutral.

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Re: Let's talk about logs (Gearing and Execution advise) 4.3

Postby Tinderhoof » Thu Feb 09, 2012 2:56 pm

Oh one thing I would recomend is to not use 2 orange gems in your pants. You are losing agi here and trading it for Mastery (never a good trade). If you are using it to get fulfill a tanking meta gem requirement a better spot would be in your Valor ring and your chest. If you are doing it because Red gems are to damn expensive, even 2 40 agi gems would come out better then what you have now (80 agi > 50 agi + 50 mastery)

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Re: Let's talk about logs (Gearing and Execution advise) 4.3

Postby Marandas » Thu Feb 09, 2012 5:12 pm

Good point about the pants, the oranges were for a tanking meta, but I forgot to switch them once I put orange gems in other slots. Thanks for that.

I was thinking mainly of Zon'ozz, main phase, which we're working on right now. I tank the claw, so cat charge during black phase isn't an option anyway. I don't suppose Mew has a way to model using feral charge on cooldown above 80% only? I'm wondering if that might still be a dps gain, even if the run time was three seconds.

Some quick math: Assume (as Mew told me) that FC on cooldown is dps neutral over the course of the whole fight with a two second travel time. Assume a 50% crit chance.
Let R be the damage of a non-crit ravage. A crit ravage then hits for 2.06R (+3% from meta gem)
An average ravage in the 100-80% boss health period hits for 2.06R.
An average ravage in the 80-0 range his for (1 + 2.06)/2 R, or 1.53R
An overall average ravage hits for 0.2*2.06R + 0.8*1.53R, or 1.636R

Then an average ravage in the 100-80% phase is 2.06R / 1.636R = 1.26 times the strength of an average ravage throughout the fight. Therefore, if the break-even travel time for the whole fight is two seconds, for the 100-80% phase it would be 2.52 seconds.

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Re: Let's talk about logs (Gearing and Execution advise) 4.3

Postby feralCat » Thu Feb 09, 2012 10:21 pm

I'm not happy with my performance this week. I was going to continue lurking in shame, but that's no way to solve a problem. Would you experts please take a look and tell me how to fix this mess?

A couple of quick notes:
  • I was the (way) off tank on the two tank stuff (morchok, ultraxion, blackhorn, various trash). I'm not usually.
  • We did not wipe on Morchok, the log just recorded funny.
  • The two wipes on Ultraxion were my fault for being a terrible tank.
  • There was lag.
  • I'm usually better than this.
  • The sun was in my eyes.
  • Switching back and forth from kitty to tank was harshing my groove.

Logs: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/tb35r876avep9yuo/details/3/
Armory: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/baelgun/Skr%C3%A0tch/advanced

So yeah, I'm thinking I need help when rake is my top damage ability.

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Re: Let's talk about logs (Gearing and Execution advise) 4.3

Postby Xilus » Fri Feb 10, 2012 10:00 am

Hello everyone! : )
First time posting (reader for a while now), feral since TBC. Specced to cat for FL.
As i said I read this forum for sometime now, looking the way to improve my performance. Analyzed almost all logs and your advises here which is really helpful! I can see already nice improvement. But still it could be better... My best score is 46k dps but happened only once argh!

Let me point few things I already know and working about it. My bleeds time and SR should be much better then its now. Depends on tries but i know i must push it to 90+ up time and its what i focus mostly at the moment. It's sometimes really frustrating tho... I'm mastery>crit. Thinking about switching to haste when i got 4 pc, but dunno if it's good idea. Kind of like my crits more : )
About talents. Ehm I know I know.. that one point in Infected wounds should be in Perseverance. Keep forgetting about it.
Also I'm wondering about Glyphs set up. Rip and Berserker for sure but 3rd one (not counting ultraxion) bloodletting/TF. I tried both options and Im not sure. With TF I guess I use FB more often to keep Rip on (<60%) but a lot without max CP. I used to bloodletting i think.
But probably again, with 4 pc TF glyph will be better?

And something that made me sad. My damage was a lot better on Tuesday and Sunday then yesterday... I had no idea what happened. True, i was a lil bit less focused but but... Of course I sat down to logs. Seems like yesterday I missed some buffs -> Icy talon and Roar of courage from hunter's pet. But that could made such a difference? Maybe roar tho... I hit much harder with those buffs.

So here is better performance (from Sunday & Tuesday (ultraxion)):
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/2mycbi3giti78vfr/
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/w9xloq9oonryhg7c/
And yesterday:
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/mpwmoqcpx1hutq7k/

I'm thinking about Ultraxion and Zo'on mostly. Unfortunately didn't get logs from Yor'sahj from last week. It seems also like i used Bloodlust better last week due to longer fight (on Zo'on). Yesterday boss dropped faster and (silly me) I waited few secs with berserker.
I started using logs week ago. So for sure you guys will see in it more then I do.
Here's my kitteh - http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/d ... s/advanced
Oh, and i got few new shiny items yesterday so couldn't try out that new gear yet ; )
I compete with spriest and pally for 1st place almost all the time... aarrgg. Sometimes manage to beat priest but pally is allowed to cheat on all bosses! :[ hehe ^^
Oh dear what a long post... Ehm. I'm waiting for your advices and things I can still improve please : )
Cheers, Xil

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Re: Let's talk about logs (Gearing and Execution advise) 4.3

Postby Tinderhoof » Sat Feb 11, 2012 2:47 pm

feralCat wrote:I'm not happy with my performance this week. I was going to continue lurking in shame, but that's no way to solve a problem. Would you experts please take a look and tell me how to fix this mess?

A couple of quick notes:
  • I was the (way) off tank on the two tank stuff (morchok, ultraxion, blackhorn, various trash). I'm not usually.
  • We did not wipe on Morchok, the log just recorded funny.
  • The two wipes on Ultraxion were my fault for being a terrible tank.
  • There was lag.
  • I'm usually better than this.
  • The sun was in my eyes.
  • Switching back and forth from kitty to tank was harshing my groove.

Logs: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/tb35r876avep9yuo/details/3/
Armory: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/baelgun/Skr%C3%A0tch/advanced

So yeah, I'm thinking I need help when rake is my top damage ability.

Hey Scratch.

Let's start with some spec suggestions then we will move onto the logs.
Spec: Brutal Impact is really not necessary this tier at all as there is nothing we need to interrupt. Feel free to use these points in other locations for both specs. In the case of cat spec pick up SI. I can't count the number of times that ablity has saved my furry hide and no raiding kitty should be with out it. For bear spec pick up a few points in King of the Jungle. Having a boost to damage every minute is pretty good.

I am only going to pick through the logs were you were kitty.
Yor'Sahj:
Your cooldown usage here was all over the place. You used 2 Berserks, 9 TFs, 4 Sigil, and 1 potion and none of them lined up with each other. You really need to harness the power of them working together. Even if you are trying to add to the meters by swiping adds you can see what oozes are coming so you can save TF and Berserk together.
You should also think about working Dash and FC into your slime attacks. If you start with Stampeding Roar and do Dash second, you will have one up every single slime phase. Feral Charge will also be off cooldown for every slime, so make use of that to get a little extra burst in on them.
Because you have 2p it should be very easy to keep Rip up on the boss during the slime runs. Make sure to look at your timers and have a few combo points and energy to Bite and Rake before you go after the slime.

Zon'ozz:
At the start you lined your cooldowns up pretty well, but by the end things going desynced and as a result you missed out on an extra TF. When you know the fight will be less then 6 minutes that means you only get 2 Berserks. That means you shouldn't blow it on cooldown but save it for when you have your Sigil and TF up at the same time and blow all 3 with a potion. In this kill you used your second Berserk when TF had about 17 seconds left on the cooldown. This pushed out the next time you could use TF.

Hagara:
You had the right idea here of using a potion when she is taking 15% more damage, but you should also make sure you add Berserk to the mix. One thing to note, when she is in her ice bubble your bleeds will still tick, but do 0 damage. This means don't worry about refreshing them before you run out to dance. Use what ever extra combo points you have to keep SR's uptime as high as possible. Make sure to also FC hagara after the dance and use Ravage before you hit Tigers Fury, so you don't lose a Ravage.

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Re: Let's talk about logs (Gearing and Execution advise) 4.3

Postby Tinderhoof » Sat Feb 11, 2012 3:56 pm

Hi Xilus. Welcome to the community.

I have a few spec/gear suggestions.
Gems:
I am a little confused about your gemming plan. You have that tasty 410 tier piece with no epic gems, but you have badge pants that you will replace at the drop of a hat that has an epic gem.
Spec:
You shouldn't really need Brutal Impact because we don't have anything to interupt. No Feral DPS should be with out Nuturing Instinct. Anything that gives you more healing is good for all. Take it
Glyphs:
The Thorns glyph is less then useless as you have to shift to use it, and having no SP to make it actually do damage. As you are doing heroics make sure you have the Rebirth glyph and I would take the FB glyph. Never say no to more healing. About your question with the TF glyph, you won't ever use it. Back during the PTR for 4.3 Mew had a bug that overvalued it and word got around that it would be good with 4p. This has been fixed and Bloodletting is the clear winner on every fight not named Ultraxion/Heroic Spine.

Zon'ozz:
I can't tell if the logs are off about your opener. Did you run in to get SR up then run out to FC? Your Rake uptime is great, but Rip is pretty low. It looks like you wern't able to get it going for almost 20 seconds. How do you perform your opening for this fight? It also looks like you could have snuck in another TF before the Black phase. You did a good job putting Berserk, Pot, and TF together for the burst phase though.

Hagara:
Always get Rake up on anything you can. This includes Ice Spires and the Elemental. Your TF usage is also really low. I know you want to try and save it for the burns which is good, but it looks like you could slip in a few more.

Ultraxion:
Damn fine job here, and congrads on the ranking. The only thing I would change is to get your first Berserk/TF off a little sooner so you can make as much use of your prepot as possible.

Yor'sahj:
Nice job here as well. Don't forget to use your second pot though.

Morchock:
There is kind of a pattern of seeing a higher uptime on Rip then Rake. Rake is very cheap and easy to apply and should always be higher then Rip. Try to watch for the timer for the upcoming black phase and refresh both buffs. With 2p it's very easy to get Rip refreshed, and Rake is just one more GCD. Don't worry about cliping bleeds if you arn't going to be on the boss for a bit.

Zon'ozz (heroic):
You did good here. Heroic sucks balls for us as the adds die to fast to bleed.

Overall I am seeing improvment as the logs go on so feel good you are getting used to your claws and the fights. The thing I think you should work on that will give you the biggest boost is to work on your opener. Getting bleeds up faster and using Berserk/TF with as much time on your pot as possible will give you a nice opening boost. Because you are progression focused I would recomend dropping herbing for a profession that will give you a better stat boost. This isn't required, but if you are looking for every little thing this will help. Good luck!

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