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Simulationcraft - Feral rotation discussion and script

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Re: Simulationcraft - Feral rotation discussion

Postby aggixx » Mon Sep 10, 2012 5:32 am

I already told Leafkiller this but might as well mention it here, dot.name.ticks_added is now implemented in the sim, so we can now see how many extends remain left on the rip, true duration, etc.

So after some rather extensive in-game testing, I determined (with help of a few people from SimC IRC!) that both the AP coefficient and base damage of Rake were reduced by ~22.66%. This is a huge loss so I'm tempted to believe that this is not the case, but we'll wait til we get some datamined numbers. For the time being I'll be using this 0.3 AP coefficient.

A couple points I've discovered:
  • Rake is still a DPS gain for both T13H and T14H. The difference is around 300 DPS in both cases, although the 90 profile is not optimized.
  • I was able to gain something like 1.2k DPS for T13H shred by implementing the changes that were made to the rake profile.
  • The "combo_points<5" conditional on the ripshred fallback line is a DPS loss for the T13H shred profile.
  • T14H_FoN is still better than T14H_SotF by about 300 DPS, but I'm going to keep working with the SotF profile because theoretically people will prefer to use it unless an encounter specifically calls for burst.
  • The new SR desync line we came up for the T13H rake action list is a loss in T14H. Furthermore, it's a 100 DPS gain to remove the desync line that was already in the T14H profile.
  • OOC Thrash is about a 1k DPS gain in T14H. I attempted to add some conditionals to keep it from sniping CP at important times but it was a loss.
  • Got a 300 DPS gain out of converting the aggressive FB line into the new ticks_added format... but here's the fun part, the optimal threshold is 4 seconds. Apparently SotF does have something to do with this, because with no talent taken in T4 the optimal threshold becomes 8 seconds, but I definitely don't understand how a 4 second threshold makes any sense at all. Hell, a 8 second threshold w/o SotF doesn't seem to make much sense either.

I also did some work tidying up the profile none of which was really a significant DPS gain, but this is my current profile as as time of writing.

Here's some updated talent comparisons:

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Now for sleep!

PS: I did make this post regarding the consequences of this hotfix, in the CBAT2. Hopefully it recieves some attention even if it isn't in the form of a forum response.
Last edited by aggixx on Mon Sep 10, 2012 1:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Simulationcraft - Feral rotation discussion

Postby Leafkiller » Mon Sep 10, 2012 1:16 pm

For SoTF and for DoC when we will have a more powerful (or equal) spell, we may want to consider clipping Rip sooner, perhaps 6 seconds. That may also alter the Aggressive FB threshold.

Seems like it is time to add testing for the SotF talent, although that will make the script look even more complex...

Soon we should switch over to testing T14N and per-T14 profiles so we can be ready for launch.

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Re: Simulationcraft - Feral rotation discussion

Postby aggixx » Mon Sep 10, 2012 1:22 pm

Will try that tomorrow.

Already implemented.

Yep, would probably want to wait til they sort out this rake business first though imo.

Ok, sleep.
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Re: Simulationcraft - Feral rotation discussion

Postby Tinderhoof » Mon Sep 10, 2012 1:38 pm

GC just posted up the adjusted numbers. They seem more agressive then we had guessed. They also buffed Ravage.

Feral DruidRake was potentially able to beat Shred, with high mastery, so we moved some damage from Rake to their direct attacks:
-- Increased the damage of Shred by 25%.
-- Increased the damage of Ravage by 25%.
-- Increased the damage of Mangle by 25%.
-- Reduced the damage of Rake by 17%.


http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/6397900436?page=36#714

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Re: Simulationcraft - Feral rotation discussion

Postby Tinderhoof » Mon Sep 10, 2012 1:39 pm

Also before people get excited, because Ravage was boosted by the same amount as Shred, Incarnation isn't going to get any better.

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Re: Simulationcraft - Feral rotation discussion

Postby Leafkiller » Mon Sep 10, 2012 1:44 pm

Tinderhoof wrote:-- Increased the damage of Ravage by 25%.


You just beat me to this one Tinder...

I know some Feral PvPers who are dancing in the street right now...

For PvE usage, Incarnation may be a lot closer now to FoN, and particularly useful on burst fights where the 3 minute cooldown is not a hindrance. It seems like FoN is the big loser here.

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Re: Simulationcraft - Feral rotation discussion

Postby Leafkiller » Mon Sep 10, 2012 1:47 pm

I wonder if those coefficient changes were rebalanced after the Pawkets (aggixx) post. The Shred versus Shred! values we saw were 15% not 25%.

We should retest Shred! btw.

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Re: Simulationcraft - Feral rotation discussion

Postby Tinderhoof » Mon Sep 10, 2012 1:49 pm

That's what I was thinking. I thought their numbers looked a bit higher then I had expected. I am guessing they bumped them again because my testing over the weekend was putting shred filler/rake filler about even with so so play. That pretty much was confirmed by Aggixx's numbers this morning.

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Re: Simulationcraft - Feral rotation discussion

Postby Leafkiller » Mon Sep 10, 2012 1:52 pm

Go do your Nekid test! Give all those Tauren females a thrill ;)

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Re: Simulationcraft - Feral rotation discussion

Postby Zheny » Mon Sep 10, 2012 2:28 pm

Did a nekid test on EU server just now. I had GoShred on.
Hope this helps.

Normal Shred no bleed 374
TF Shred no bleed 313

Normal Shred with bleed 448
TF Shred with bleed 376

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Re: Simulationcraft - Feral rotation discussion

Postby Zheny » Mon Sep 10, 2012 2:38 pm

This test is WITHOUT GoShred

Normal Shred no bleed 373
TF Shred no bleed 430 (without GoShred)

Normal Shred with bleed 448
TF Shred with bleed 515 (without GoShred)

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Re: Simulationcraft - Feral rotation discussion

Postby Leafkiller » Mon Sep 10, 2012 2:53 pm

Thanks - so GoShred continues to be broken.

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Re: Simulationcraft - Feral rotation discussion

Postby aggixx » Mon Sep 10, 2012 10:43 pm

Tinderhoof wrote:Also before people get excited, because Ravage was boosted by the same amount as Shred, Incarnation isn't going to get any better.

Well, the percentage gap in their damage and DPE will be the same, but the gap in flat damage will go up, so it should get better, probably not by a lot though.
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Re: Simulationcraft - Feral rotation discussion

Postby scorpio0920 » Wed Sep 12, 2012 2:08 am

I posted http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/1191353-Soul-of-Forest-NOT-fixed-completely.

Soul of Forest NOT fixed completely.

Rip and Savage Roar can gain energy, 5CP = 20 energy.

However, Ferocious Bite return nothing.

Unrelated energy conversion.

Whether or not the soul of the forest talent, Ferocious Bite damage is the same.

In short, is the soul of the forest Ferocious Bite no role.

I tested 5CP at 25, 50, 100, energy.

at 25 energy it does lower damage

at 50, 100, energy it does higher damage and the same.

They did not get the energy feedback.

btw: nude testing.

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Re: Simulationcraft - Feral rotation discussion

Postby Zheny » Wed Sep 12, 2012 12:52 pm

GoShred seems to be fixed now.

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Re: Simulationcraft - Feral rotation discussion

Postby Tinderhoof » Wed Sep 12, 2012 1:32 pm

scorpio0920 wrote:I posted http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/1191353-Soul-of-Forest-NOT-fixed-completely.

Soul of Forest NOT fixed completely.

Rip and Savage Roar can gain energy, 5CP = 20 energy.

However, Ferocious Bite return nothing.

Unrelated energy conversion.

Whether or not the soul of the forest talent, Ferocious Bite damage is the same.

In short, is the soul of the forest Ferocious Bite no role.

I tested 5CP at 25, 50, 100, energy.

at 25 energy it does lower damage

at 50, 100, energy it does higher damage and the same.

They did not get the energy feedback.

btw: nude testing.

When did you do this last? The reason I ask is from what I could tell last night in the raid I was getting the 25 energy refund on FB. What it looked like it was happening is the initial cost of 25 energy happened at the exact time of the refund. Then after a minor delay the second half the energy was taken out. Please feel free to fact check me today, cause I have been wrong in the past.

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Re: Simulationcraft - Feral rotation discussion

Postby Leafkiller » Wed Sep 12, 2012 1:43 pm

I just tested Shred! online in a non-proc gear set, and it does look like it is fixed now (other than the tooltips).

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Re: Simulationcraft - Feral rotation discussion

Postby Leafkiller » Wed Sep 12, 2012 1:49 pm

Tinderhoof wrote:When did you do this last? The reason I ask is from what I could tell last night in the raid I was getting the 25 energy refund on FB. What it looked like it was happening is the initial cost of 25 energy happened at the exact time of the refund. Then after a minor delay the second half the energy was taken out. Please feel free to fact check me today, cause I have been wrong in the past.


I just tried this by spamming Shred on a target dummy to 5 combo points, getting my energy below 25 and then spamming the FB key to cast it as close to 25 energy as possible. As soon as the Fb went off, the energy bar was back at 25, not zero, so it looks OK, at least on a training dummy.

Edit - specifically, when I hit FB at close to 25, it drops to 25, then there is a small hitch where it drops back to 25 and continues on from there. Presumably that is the extra energy being eaten up as my spamming the FB key means I am not hitting it exactly at 25. It never drops below 25 though, so the energy is certainly being refunded.

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Re: Simulationcraft - Feral rotation discussion

Postby scorpio0920 » Wed Sep 12, 2012 6:09 pm

Tinderhoof wrote:When did you do this last? The reason I ask is from what I could tell last night in the raid I was getting the 25 energy refund on FB. What it looked like it was happening is the initial cost of 25 energy happened at the exact time of the refund. Then after a minor delay the second half the energy was taken out. Please feel free to fact check me today, cause I have been wrong in the past.


Last test at 9/5.

I know the 2-times energy cost on FB, so I will check it today.

Thanks for your reply.

;)

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Re: Simulationcraft - Feral rotation discussion

Postby Leafkiller » Wed Sep 12, 2012 8:08 pm

Confirmation of a fix to Shred! from GC: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic ... age=40#782

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Re: Simulationcraft - Feral rotation discussion

Postby aggixx » Thu Sep 13, 2012 12:50 am

I'm not sure if the sim behavior is identical to the Ovale script, but I feel like OOC thrashing could be more aggressive. If rake is less than 3 seconds (or less than 9 during TF) or rip is less than 2 seconds, it really doesn't need to refresh them first, energy permitting.
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Re: Simulationcraft - Feral rotation discussion

Postby Leafkiller » Thu Sep 13, 2012 1:30 am

We can do that by simply moving the ooc conditional higher in the script.

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Re: Simulationcraft - Feral rotation discussion

Postby scorpio0920 » Thu Sep 13, 2012 10:08 am

Confirm, Soul of the Forest FIXED.

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Re: Simulationcraft - Feral rotation discussion

Postby Leafkiller » Thu Sep 13, 2012 6:45 pm

Since Thrash is a DoT, I wonder if it would be wort hardcasting at times to grab a DoC buff.

@aggixx, are you going to around tonight and/or tomorrow night?

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Re: Simulationcraft - Feral rotation discussion

Postby Mihir » Thu Sep 13, 2012 7:26 pm

scorpio0920 wrote:Confirm, Soul of the Forest FIXED.

woot, great news :)

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