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MoP Ovale Script - discussion and request for some help

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MoP Ovale Script - discussion and request for some help

Postby Leafkiller » Thu Aug 23, 2012 3:56 pm

*****
Locking this thread. Moving all discussion to the Ovale Script sticky
*****

Looking through the current Simulationcraft Action Priority List, there are two capabilities that are missing from Ovale that would be helpful for writing a MoP script. These both concern Rake and assume that Dream of Cenarius will continue to be our preferred level 90 talent.

I have opened a ticket requesting an enhancement from the authors of Ovale for two capabilities:

1. A test to tell you whether or not the previous ability used was Rake (specifically melee ability). This is needed to make sure we do not clip Rake two times in a row using up both Dream of Cenarius charges.

2. A test to see if casting a Rake with DoC up would result in a higher tick multiplier than what the tick multiplier was when the current Rake was cast.

This ticket is here: http://wow.curseforge.com/addons/ovale/ ... ke-in-mop/

I plan to add a reply to the ticket because I don't think I explained the tick multiplier sufficiently, and because I need some combat logs from Beta to show what can be done to determine the tick multiplier when a given Rake is cast.

Specifically, I need to see what the log looks like when you cast TF and then Rake and what it looks like when you use a DoC charge on Rake, and when both are combined. A normal rotation would be helpful as I want to see if you can tell from the log that the buffs were present when the cast occurred.

As I do not currently have a level 90 druid on Beta, can one of you who does have a level 90 please spend a few minutes capturing some log information for me and posting it on this thread?

Thanks in advance :)

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Re: MoP Ovale Script - discussion and request for some help

Postby Tinderhoof » Thu Aug 23, 2012 4:46 pm

I will see if I can put something together for you tonight.

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Re: MoP Ovale Script - discussion and request for some help

Postby Leafkiller » Thu Aug 23, 2012 4:48 pm

** Notes **

Looking through the code I see the following values that need to go into the multiplier:

(using m for the multiplier, with m starting at 1.0)

if ( buff.natures_vigil -> up() )
{
m *= 1.0 + buff.natures_vigil -> data().effectN( 1 ).percent();
}

if ( ( school == SCHOOL_PHYSICAL ) || ( school == SCHOOL_BLEED ) )
{
m *= 1.0 + buff.tigers_fury -> value();
m *= 1.0 + buff.savage_roar -> value();
}

if ( school == SCHOOL_BLEED )
m *= 1.0 + mastery.razor_claws -> effectN( 1 ).mastery_value() * composite_mastery();

if ( p() -> buff.dream_of_cenarius_damage -> check() )
{
m *= 1.0 + p() -> buff.dream_of_cenarius_damage -> data().effectN( 1 ).percent();
}

I don't see anything for AP in there (so far) - but it may be somewhere else...

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Re: MoP Ovale Script - discussion and request for some help

Postby Leafkiller » Thu Aug 23, 2012 7:56 pm

Sidoine replied to my post and it looks like there are functions that we can use, although they do need to be updated. His repsonse:

The PreviousSpell(rake) function can be used for 1.

LastSpellDamageMultiplier(rake) <DamageMultiplier(rake) can be used for 2. ATM, these are not complete, they do not use all the buffs. I must update them.


I think we have enough information to craft a level 90 cat script now. The only open question is whether or not we should include a casting section for Heart of the Wild, or assume that the present inflated damage is a bug that will be fixed shortly (which is the position that aggixx has taken).
======================

For the bear (Guardian) script, how does this sound:
One box for the standard rage generation rotation prioritizing FF for the armor debuff, mangle, thrash, lacerate, FF (when lacerate is at 3 stacks).
One box for the defensive cooldowns that require rage that keeps SD up as much as possible (2/3rds of the time) but requests FR when life goes below a particular threshold. If life is low then FR would be shown - but it would have a visual clue if you are below 60 rage.
One box that shows when you have enough rage to cast maul (for those times when you are not taking damage).
We would want the usual small cooldown boxes for things like Might of Ursoc.

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Re: MoP Ovale Script - discussion and request for some help

Postby Terias » Thu Aug 23, 2012 9:13 pm

Not sure it will be nerfed, based on the blue responses it seems like they are fine with 70k dps during its duration. Wearing full pvp gear, reforged entirely to crit and haste (mastery/hit/exp worthless for hotw), using a caster staff, I was pulling 70k dps for the entire duration (I could only perform a few tests though, because of the long cooldown).

If I pop hotw with trinkets that jumps to about 85k just for the duration of hotw (170k wraths for 20 seconds).

I'm not sure moonfire is worth using during hotw (doesn't benefit from agi -> nature sp conversion), definitely not worth using during trinkets.

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Re: MoP Ovale Script - discussion and request for some help

Postby Leafkiller » Thu Aug 23, 2012 9:25 pm

The question I have is how much feral dps do you lose with that reforging scheme. We will have to run it through a sim to know for sure if it is an actual dps gain over DoC.

At least it sounds like it should be easy to test, although I am not sure how you swap weapons in Simc, but there must be a way...

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Re: MoP Ovale Script - discussion and request for some help

Postby aggixx » Thu Aug 23, 2012 9:29 pm

Leafkiller wrote:At least it sounds like it should be easy to test, although I am not sure how you swap weapons in Simc, but there must be a way...


As far as I know the sim does not support it. And also, when I said HotW is not implemented I meant in the Sim not the rotation.
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Re: MoP Ovale Script - discussion and request for some help

Postby Leafkiller » Thu Aug 23, 2012 11:27 pm

Any idea if Starfox is going to work on it?

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Re: MoP Ovale Script - discussion and request for some help

Postby aggixx » Thu Aug 23, 2012 11:41 pm

I asked him if it was implemented yesterday and he said no. I don't recall exactly what his thought was on implementing it but I'm sure if turns out to be a DPS gain for Boomkin he'll be right on it! ;)

Weapon swapping not being implemented makes it kind of pointless to implement HotW first, though. As far as I know that's essentially where all of the DPS value of the active comes from.
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Re: MoP Ovale Script - discussion and request for some help

Postby BoldTM » Fri Aug 24, 2012 1:35 am

Should we not focus on the 85 ovale first since patch hits on wednesday and then focus on 90 rotations?

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Re: MoP Ovale Script - discussion and request for some help

Postby Leafkiller » Fri Aug 24, 2012 1:57 am

BoldTM wrote:Should we not focus on the 85 ovale first since patch hits on wednesday and then focus on 90 rotations?


The cat rotation should be straightforward for level 85, although I won't guarantee it will be fully optimized, only that it should be good enough for the next few weeks and pretty much based on the 90 rotation sans level 90 talents. I think what I wrote for bears should be close enough.

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Re: MoP Ovale Script - discussion and request for some help

Postby Tinderhoof » Fri Aug 24, 2012 3:12 am

Got a good snip of log for you. The first Rake should be unbuffed by anything but SR. I made sure to weave in DoC buffed Rakes, DoC/TF'd Rakes, a TF'd Rake, and at least one more unbuffed rake. Let me know if you need anything else.
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/koqnk35pyo7e0p6a/

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Re: MoP Ovale Script - discussion and request for some help

Postby Konungr » Fri Aug 24, 2012 8:49 am

aggixx wrote:I asked him if it was implemented yesterday and he said no. I don't recall exactly what his thought was on implementing it but I'm sure if turns out to be a DPS gain for Boomkin he'll be right on it! ;)

Weapon swapping not being implemented makes it kind of pointless to implement HotW first, though. As far as I know that's essentially where all of the DPS value of the active comes from.



How does weapon switching have any effect on HotW, I was under the impression the mere use of a Heal was what caused the increase to the next two Melee Attacks, not the size of the heal... Weapon Switching just to use the PS/NS procs is going to get problematic for 2 reason:

1st: Each Weapon Switch in-combat activates a 1.5 second GCD (unless changed in MoP - highly unlikely) which is on top of the 1.5 second GCD of using a Heal (Hopefully a bug and will be corrected to be a 1 second GCD in Cat Form) and,
2nd: Weapon switching every ~12 seconds is going to get tedious, and harmful to DPS with any Weapons with Procs, such as Kiril, not to mention loss of Weapon DPS, since Healing Weapons have roughly 35% of the same tier's Weapon DPS (Spire of Coagulated Globues - 1002.5, Lightning Rod - 371.7).

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Re: MoP Ovale Script - discussion and request for some help

Postby Terias » Fri Aug 24, 2012 8:59 am

You're confusing hotw with doc, doc increases the next 2 attacks with a heal.

Hotw is 45 second role switching cooldown, and using a spellpower weapon gives far more damage than the agi on a dps polearm.

You'd be spamming wrath for 45 seconds during the hotw buff, which is right now (with weapon switching) a 20k+ dps gain over the standard rotation (for the duration of the buff).

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Re: MoP Ovale Script - discussion and request for some help

Postby Konungr » Fri Aug 24, 2012 9:36 am

Right, I've got Lizard-brain right now, just got off work and raided prior to that, been up for 16 hours. Plus both talents require Role Switching in essence, PITA!

Only Wrath, or would we be using Moonfire/Insect/Etc?

Also, which 90 talent is looking to be top after the DoC nerf, which was sorta needed.

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Re: MoP Ovale Script - discussion and request for some help

Postby Tinderhoof » Fri Aug 24, 2012 10:57 am

Just wrath. We don't have insect swarm anymore and sunfire is moonkin only.

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Re: MoP Ovale Script - discussion and request for some help

Postby Alaron » Fri Aug 24, 2012 12:13 pm

For those mucking around with testing weaponswap HoTW (which is a bug in my view, and I don't know why Blizzard still allows weapon swapping in combat), a couple quick questions:

1. How's it affect FoN scaling?
2. How's the HPS, if we chose to go that route?

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Re: MoP Ovale Script - discussion and request for some help

Postby Tinderhoof » Fri Aug 24, 2012 1:17 pm

Depends on the context of Force of Nature you are refering too. FoN for Ferals only scales off of AP (not SR, TF, or any other buff) and scales very poorly at that. Sure HotW does give a little through passive agi, but thats about it.

I haven't tried messing with the healing. Tranq is likely the best option a Feral has if it's not the "Oh crap tank died" time.

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Re: MoP Ovale Script - discussion and request for some help

Postby Tinderhoof » Fri Aug 24, 2012 1:18 pm

Also FoN has a tendency to get parried cause they are dumb.

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Re: MoP Ovale Script - discussion and request for some help

Postby Alaron » Fri Aug 24, 2012 2:25 pm

To clarify, I was asking FoN treants if scaled off the spellpower damage buff we got from an activated HotW. I forgot that each spec has different treants, though, so that's not likely. Nevermind.

Still interested in the HPS thing.

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Re: MoP Ovale Script - discussion and request for some help

Postby aggixx » Fri Aug 24, 2012 2:55 pm

Konungr wrote:Right, I've got Lizard-brain right now, just got off work and raided prior to that, been up for 16 hours. Plus both talents require Role Switching in essence, PITA!

Only Wrath, or would we be using Moonfire/Insect/Etc?

Also, which 90 talent is looking to be top after the DoC nerf, which was sorta needed.


Probably HotW in the current build. Do vastly more DPS for 45 seconds for spamming 1 button and the only part that isn't idiot proof is the weapon swap.

Although I wouldn't expect it to stay that way.
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Re: MoP Ovale Script - discussion and request for some help

Postby Tinderhoof » Fri Aug 24, 2012 3:02 pm

Tinderhoof wrote:Just wrath. We don't have insect swarm anymore and sunfire is moonkin only.

Because I typed this on my phone I likely didn't provide needed details. HotW only buffs Nature damage so because Sunfire is Boomkin only we have only Wrath to cast. It's pretty boring and only useful if there is going to be 1 air phase.

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Re: MoP Ovale Script - discussion and request for some help

Postby Terias » Fri Aug 24, 2012 3:15 pm

If you pop agi trinkets during hotw, then moonfire isn't worth casting until they wear off. I was seeing very marginal gains throwing a moonfire in after the trinkets were down. That was in pvp gear though, as your ilvl rises, wrath gains further over moonfire; I'm willing to bet it's never worth it in full tier gear.

Also, I haven't been on to test today, but last I remember rejuv was the best thing to spam if you're healing during hotw - after tranq of course. Ticks for 60k during hotw, and it works like rake now (gives an initial 60k tick the second you cast it, instead of having to wait 2 seconds for the first tick).

Just spam it on every target that isn't full health (or cycle it across in the whole raid in 10 man) until hotw wears off.

Hotw tranq is crazy though, I could see it getting nerfed by the second raid tier (or sooner).

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Re: MoP Ovale Script - discussion and request for some help

Postby Leafkiller » Fri Aug 24, 2012 3:32 pm

Tinderhoof wrote:Got a good snip of log for you. The first Rake should be unbuffed by anything but SR. I made sure to weave in DoC buffed Rakes, DoC/TF'd Rakes, a TF'd Rake, and at least one more unbuffed rake. Let me know if you need anything else.
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/koqnk35pyo7e0p6a/



Here is an example of casting a heal to set up the melee abilities:
[00:07:25.905] Tinderhoof begins to cast Healing Touch
[00:07:25.905] Tinderhoof gains Dream of Cenarius from Tinderhoof
[00:07:25.915] Tinderhoof's Dream of Cenarius fades from Tinderhoof
[00:07:26.105] Tinderhoof gains 4800 mana from Tinderhoof's Leader of the Pack
[00:07:26.105] Tinderhoof Leader of the Pack Tinderhoof +0 (O: 19054)
[00:07:26.325] Tinderhoof Rake Internal Test Boss *92469*
[00:07:26.685] Tinderhoof hits Internal Test Boss 6831
[00:07:27.345] Tinderhoof casts Rake on Internal Test Boss
[00:07:27.345] Tinderhoof gains Dream of Cenarius from Tinderhoof

Notice the "gains Dream of Cenarius" after casting Healing Touch and also after casting the next melee ability for the second charge.

Here is an example of casting a melee ability to buff the next heal:
[00:07:45.545] Tinderhoof casts Shred on Internal Test Boss
[00:07:45.545] Tinderhoof's Dream of Cenarius is refreshed by Tinderhoof

Notice the "Dream of Cenarius is refreshed" language vs. the "gains..." language for the dps buff.
This happens constantly in our rotation ("is refreshed"). I would like to know how the buffs look - are there separate visible buffs with different spellids for the healing vs dps buffs? If so, what are the spellids?

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Re: MoP Ovale Script - discussion and request for some help

Postby Tinderhoof » Fri Aug 24, 2012 4:04 pm

When I was setting up Need to Know to monitor both the Predatory Swiftness buff and the Dream buff I had to use spell ID's. The Dream of Cenarius buff to healing has the exact name but shows up as a different buff from the melee buff. They even have 2 different spell icons and ID's. I will be home late tonight so I won't be able to get them to you till likely after midnight. In case anyone else wants to do this go for it.

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