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Team Waffle Podcast: Feral Roundtable Quesionts

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Team Waffle Podcast: Feral Roundtable Quesionts

Postby Tinderhoof » Tue Sep 04, 2012 12:59 pm

Hey everyone.
The Team Waffle Podcast is having a big Feral Roundtable this Friday at 7pm (pst) http://teamwafflecast.com/. Several well known Ferals from both PVP and PVE environments will be getting together to talk about the state of Feral, and answer questions from the community. Here is the line up:

- Arielle: Podcast Host / Moderator
- Alaron: Author of Fluid Druid. Writer for WoW Insider.
- Leafkiller: Feral theorycrafter and maintainer of the Ovale scripts for both Feral and Guardian.
- Tinderhoof: Feral theorycrafter and the Feral “voice” on TWP.
- Clay: PvP theorycrafter and “voice” on TWP.
- Yipz: Feral Gladiator in Cataclysm.
- Datah: Datah.
- Hackx: The guy that broadcasts the show for us.

If you have any questions you would like any of the above folks to answer post here and I will make sure they get added to our topics of discussion. See you on Friday.

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Re: Team Waffle Podcast: Feral Roundtable Quesionts

Postby Sibylle » Tue Sep 04, 2012 3:31 pm

No special questions, just saying that I'm really looking forward to hearing you guys :) I'll be listening to the recording the day after, since the actual broadcast happens at something like 3am in my time zone.
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Re: Team Waffle Podcast: Feral Roundtable Quesionts

Postby Konungr » Tue Sep 04, 2012 4:45 pm

Y U NO Remember Konungr?

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Re: Team Waffle Podcast: Feral Roundtable Quesionts

Postby Leafkiller » Tue Sep 04, 2012 7:02 pm

Konungr wrote:Y U NO Remember Konungr?


I remember you.

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Re: Team Waffle Podcast: Feral Roundtable Quesionts

Postby Tinderhoof » Tue Sep 04, 2012 7:32 pm

...In the mountains.

Sorry had to be done.

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Re: Team Waffle Podcast: Feral Roundtable Quesionts

Postby Qbear » Tue Sep 04, 2012 9:49 pm

Ko-na-ger?

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Re: Team Waffle Podcast: Feral Roundtable Quesionts

Postby Elamari » Tue Sep 04, 2012 10:44 pm

* How mandatory is the Glyph of Savagery? I see the simcraft people are using it.

* Does healing from bandages get the bonus healing from the Glyph of Cat Form?

* Are you still able to dodge when you use the bear hug spell (I know it's more of a Guardian question, but I'll throw it in anyway).

* Are you a fan of forced hybrid play re: Level 90 talents. Do you think we should be able to chose when we want to be a hybrid or is this a good direction to go?

* Is there any data on which symbiosis will give druids the maximum dps / best utility for a raid?

* Do ferals still get energy refunded for attacks that don't land?

* Currently Icy Veins says on their Macros and Addons page for feral druids "Currently, we feel that there is no need for additional addons to play a Feral Druid to its full potential.". What do you guys think of this statement?

This will do for now but I might be back with more.

*edit for extra questions
Cricket? Nobody understands cricket. You have to know what a crumpet is to understand cricket.

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Re: Team Waffle Podcast: Feral Roundtable Quesionts

Postby Tinderhoof » Tue Sep 04, 2012 11:08 pm

Thanks Elamari. I will add those to the list.

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Re: Team Waffle Podcast: Feral Roundtable Quesionts

Postby Konungr » Wed Sep 05, 2012 7:50 am

Qbear wrote:Ko-na-ger?


Ko-Nun-Grrr or Kon (Con)

It means King in Old English/Norse.

I'm not allowed to be part of this Feral Roundtable, hence the question above. But I'm going to give my input about any of the questions I see here, and maybe I'll get some 3rd Party Air Time, lol.

1) Glyph of Savagery helps a LOT with the rotation, especially with easing the high ramp-up time we are seeing again. We are going back to a much more complex rotation, like WotLK, where there isn't as much free room for preference. Savage Roar becomes our number 1 priority, and being able to have it up before Combat Starts and we throw our first few moves, is extremely useful. It is also one of the only Glyphs worth taking.

Side Note, other than fights you are forced in front of the boss: Ultraxion, Kologarn, Ragnaros, etc. GoShred isn't very useful, since on any fight you can get behind the target, GoShred is a large DPS decrease. Yes you will have range of movement during TF/Berserk, but your Shreds are then open to Parry, which you most likely will not be Hard Capping Expertise for.

2) No Answer to this, don't use Bandages. I'll hop in game, create a couple, and try it out.

3) No Answer to this one either, not a Bear.

4) I'm not a fan of forced hybrid, I remember the days of Classic where I was only brought to raids for my Buffs, and I didn't get to play the large kitty. On the other-hand, our current Top DPS talent in simulations is Dream of Cenarius, which isn't bad at all, with the use of Predatory and Nature's Swiftness. Healing Touch is easily added into our rotation, since we have so much downtime and we don't even have to switch out of Cat Form. Not to mention, it can be used on yourself or another raid member, so if you have the proc at a time when the tank is at low health, it is very beneficial. I have been AoE Loot Farming Icecrown the past few weeks (1900 gold in 80 minutes yesterday!) and whenever I get below 80% health, I'll hit NS and HT. My Healing Touch, with just my Agility Weapon, is hitting me anywhere from 50-80k and I saw several 120-130k Crits. Considering my Health Pool is only 150k, that is an amazing ability in our toolkit.

Heart of the Wild is also quite nice, since it allows us to help out on Healing Intensive fights, like Tsulong. During one of the Day Phases, I can pop out, hit HotW and go crazy on the boss.

5) Alarron's 5.0.4 Cat Guide:
Personal DPS: Symbiosis with a warlock for Soul Swap or a rogue for Redirect. Essential for target-swap fights. Getting Divine Shield (paladin) or Dispersion (priest) may allow you to ignore certain boss mechanics.
Raid DPS: Symbiosis a warrior and get Shattering Blow.
Raid HPS: Symbiosis a shadow priest to give them Tranquility.
Tank Survivability: Symbiosis any tank to give them a useful damage-reduction cooldown.
Other: Symbiosis a rogue to give them mega-Growl which lets them tank temporarily.


Everything seems accurate to me, so why fix it?

6) Yes

7) They have never played Feral then, lol. If you want to play Feral to it's full potential, you need some addons. It can be done without them, but it is insanely stupidly difficult to do so effectively. The Stock UI is horrible, IMHO, and doesn't have a very good way to track everything we need to keep track of. My personal favorite addons are Ovale and DroodFocus, but these addons do two different things. Ovale is a Rotation Suggestion Addon, with the proper script, it will tell you the best ability to use at what times for the Maximum DPS possible. I don't use Ovale much, unless the rotation changes wildly and I want some assistance getting comfortable with the new rotation. The Bread and Butter of my functional UIcomes from DroodFocus, which is primarily a Tracking Addon. If you tell it you want to keep track of a Buff/Debuff/Cooldown, it will do so, in several different available formats.

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Re: Team Waffle Podcast: Feral Roundtable Quesionts

Postby Sibylle » Wed Sep 05, 2012 7:58 am

Hear, hear!
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Re: Team Waffle Podcast: Feral Roundtable Quesionts

Postby scorpio0920 » Wed Sep 05, 2012 9:28 am

1. Soul of Forest Fixed or not?

Rip, SR will return full energy by combat points.

However, FB return nothing.


2. How about add Thrash to the Feral rotation?

Some player tried cast Thrash when OOC, gain a bit higher dps.

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Re: Team Waffle Podcast: Feral Roundtable Quesionts

Postby Jaymzhendo » Wed Sep 05, 2012 5:58 pm

Konungr wrote:5) Alarron's 5.0.4 Cat Guide:
Personal DPS: Symbiosis with a warlock for Soul Swap or a rogue for Redirect. Essential for target-swap fights. Getting Divine Shield (paladin) or Dispersion (priest) may allow you to ignore certain boss mechanics.
Raid DPS: Symbiosis a warrior and get Shattering Blow.
Raid HPS: Symbiosis a shadow priest to give them Tranquility.
Tank Survivability: Symbiosis any tank to give them a useful damage-reduction cooldown.
Other: Symbiosis a rogue to give them mega-Growl which lets them tank temporarily.


Everything seems accurate to me, so why fix it?


Yes... but...

There are AT LEAST 3 druids (Feral, Guardian, Resto) in my raid and 3 warriors, so all of those things you listed are taken care of. There is no mention of personal dps increase on patchwerk fights, or single target swap fights like V&T -where switching is simple and Redirect isn't going to be that great over the course of the fight.

So...
What's my personal best dps symbiosis ability? Last I checked (and admittedly it's been a while) it was Shaman Ghost Wolves. Is that still the case?

I'd also like to hear some discussion about Redirect vs Soul Swap. Recently had this discussion with friends and the initial opinions were split, until I pointed out the basics of each ability.
Redirect = Bleeds on OLD target, Combos on NEW.
Soul Swap = Use combos on OLD then swap bleeds to NEW.
To me it seems pretty clear that barring a Omnotron style fight where the OLD boss can't take damage, then Redirect is clearly the winner for Symbiosis on target switch fights. Your thoughts?

I've got a ton of questions, but I can't think of most of them right now... UGH. I'll be in the live chat tho, that's for sure.
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Re: Team Waffle Podcast: Feral Roundtable Quesionts

Postby Konungr » Wed Sep 05, 2012 6:22 pm

Jaymzhendo wrote:
Yes... but...

There are AT LEAST 3 druids (Feral, Guardian, Resto) in my raid and 3 warriors, so all of those things you listed are taken care of. There is no mention of personal dps increase on patchwerk fights, or single target swap fights like V&T -where switching is simple and Redirect isn't going to be that great over the course of the fight.

So...
What's my personal best dps symbiosis ability? Last I checked (and admittedly it's been a while) it was Shaman Ghost Wolves. Is that still the case?

I'd also like to hear some discussion about Redirect vs Soul Swap. Recently had this discussion with friends and the initial opinions were split, until I pointed out the basics of each ability.
Redirect = Bleeds on OLD target, Combos on NEW.
Soul Swap = Use combos on OLD then swap bleeds to NEW.
To me it seems pretty clear that barring a Omnotron style fight where the OLD boss can't take damage, then Redirect is clearly the winner for Symbiosis on target switch fights. Your thoughts?

I've got a ton of questions, but I can't think of most of them right now... UGH. I'll be in the live chat tho, that's for sure.


None of the Abilities granted are very good for Personal DPS: Death Coil and Feral Spirit are the only two that give DPS and both of them suck (Last time I checked Death Coil costs 40 Energy and hits like a limp dick). Feral Spirit is theoretically your best bet, but it does so little DPS, that it's not even worth it. Go with Dispersion or something.

Redirect, every day.

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Re: Team Waffle Podcast: Feral Roundtable Quesionts

Postby milkgrenades » Wed Sep 05, 2012 6:58 pm

Konungr wrote:Side Note, other than fights you are forced in front of the boss: Ultraxion, Kologarn, Ragnaros, etc. GoShred isn't very useful, since on any fight you can get behind the target, GoShred is a large DPS decrease. Yes you will have range of movement during TF/Berserk, but your Shreds are then open to Parry, which you most likely will not be Hard Capping Expertise for.


What do you mean by saying Glyph of Shred is a large DPS decrease?
Do you mean Glyph of Shred is a large DPS decrease simply for having it in your slot, or do you mean attacking in front of a boss that you're able to get behind just because you have that glyph is a DPS decrease?

I'm just asking in case there's some kind of penalty I don't know about for using Glyph of Shred on non Kologarn style fights, considering the only mandatory glyph now is Glyph of Savagery.

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Re: Team Waffle Podcast: Feral Roundtable Quesionts

Postby Tinderhoof » Wed Sep 05, 2012 7:02 pm

Let's just try to keep this thread for questions. The biggest reason is to get some opinions from other ferals then just the ones who hang out here. I will say that I favor Soul Swap over Redirect, but I will leave the details for Friday.

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Re: Team Waffle Podcast: Feral Roundtable Quesionts

Postby Konungr » Wed Sep 05, 2012 7:09 pm

milkgrenades wrote:
Konungr wrote:Side Note, other than fights you are forced in front of the boss: Ultraxion, Kologarn, Ragnaros, etc. GoShred isn't very useful, since on any fight you can get behind the target, GoShred is a large DPS decrease. Yes you will have range of movement during TF/Berserk, but your Shreds are then open to Parry, which you most likely will not be Hard Capping Expertise for.


What do you mean by saying Glyph of Shred is a large DPS decrease?
Do you mean Glyph of Shred is a large DPS decrease simply for having it in your slot, or do you mean attacking in front of a boss that you're able to get behind just because you have that glyph is a DPS decrease?

I'm just asking in case there's some kind of penalty I don't know about for using Glyph of Shred on non Kologarn style fights, considering the only mandatory glyph now is Glyph of Savagery.


Attacking from the front of a boss that you're able to get behind. Take this scenario, you have the glyph enabled, on a movement heavy fight, and you have Berserk up. During the movement, you ended up just past the "back" of the boss and now you are in Parry range, but because you have the Glyph, you don't get a Warning Error telling you that it won't land, you just get parried, hence loss of DPS.

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Re: Team Waffle Podcast: Feral Roundtable Quesionts

Postby milkgrenades » Wed Sep 05, 2012 7:29 pm

Ah, thanks for clearing that up for me.

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Re: Team Waffle Podcast: Feral Roundtable Quesionts

Postby Grenache » Thu Sep 06, 2012 1:18 am

Some of the big, hard hitting questions from me:

* There seems to be controversy around the pronunciation of Ovale.
Oh-varley
Oh-Varl
Ov-Ali

* Have any of the panel members used this patch to re-do their action bars and general UI?. What mods have you dropped and gained?

* During Cataclysm, the impression I got was that Feral was one of the more popular roles in a raid. I rarely saw openings in guilds for feral players. Do you think the spec will become more or less popular in MoP? Is it still a fun/challenging class or are there too few changes from the Cata rotation, meaning people might move on to other classes.

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Re: Team Waffle Podcast: Feral Roundtable Quesionts

Postby Tinderhoof » Thu Sep 06, 2012 12:37 pm

Oh-varley
Oh-Varl
Ov-Ali <--- Close

I believe it is O Vali.

I will be sure to add the other questions to the panel.

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Re: Team Waffle Podcast: Feral Roundtable Quesionts

Postby Cluey » Sun Sep 09, 2012 1:30 pm

Tinderhoof wrote:Let's just try to keep this thread for questions. The biggest reason is to get some opinions from other ferals then just the ones who hang out here. I will say that I favor Soul Swap over Redirect, but I will leave the details for Friday.

I know I've missed the broadcast but that doesn't matter for this question. It is also specific to Tinderhoof.

This has been bugging me for a while as I read your posts. Why do you keep mixing then and than up?
This might help you sort it out.

I don't mean this offensively and you aren't the only person who does it but as most of your information seems quite well thought out the contrast with mixing these two words up undermines your credibility to me. This probably isn't helped by me reading things word for word, so as I read your posts (like the quoted one) I get confused and do a double take and then work out what you are trying to say.

I should probably have been an editor but it's too late now as nobody employs them these days!

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Re: Team Waffle Podcast: Feral Roundtable Quesionts

Postby Tinderhoof » Sun Sep 09, 2012 2:52 pm

It's not really a matter of mixing the words up. What you see in my writting is the resut of 2 things.
1. I taught myself to read at a very early age. However the way I did this is part of the problem. I did not learn to read the way most people learn to read the the US version of the english language. I didn't learn phonics or the rules of how english words work and sound until long after I could read. I did it by memorizing how the words looked and attached them to the sound of the words people spoke. By the time it came to learn phonics I was already set in my method and trying a new method was very difficult. This is also why I spell so badly.
2. I am dyslexic. This is likely why I learned to read the way I did, and why phonetics were/are hard for me to get a handle on. When seeing words I am not able to break them down as individual letters or groups of letters. I tend to look at the word as a whole which in turn lends to not noticing that an 'a' is not an 'e' and vice versa. When I do try to break down a word my brain often times will mix up the letters for me (what a nice brain). Numbers arn't as bad, but you wouldn't believe how many times 425 reads to me at 452.

Because of the way I learned to read I can read VERY fast. It also allows me to read posts filled with typos and not notice. Both my own written text and others. It is why I can read a very poorly converted Ebook or internet post at normal speeds and why those same texts drive my wife to fits. I do try to proofread my own posts, however with out a full time editor (my wife) looking over my shoulder I am likely to continue and make mistakes such as these.

I am sorry if I lose credibility in your eyes due to my poor writting skills. But at the end of the day, at least you are able to understand what I am attempting to get across, which to me is a win.

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Re: Team Waffle Podcast: Feral Roundtable Quesionts

Postby adianar » Mon Sep 10, 2012 11:03 am

Tinder, I'll take you just the way you are everytime. You put more time into keeping us current than 100 readers and I thank you for that.

Adi

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Re: Team Waffle Podcast: Feral Roundtable Quesionts

Postby frostybloke » Mon Sep 10, 2012 11:53 am

I registered, just to say..


what he said.

adianar wrote:Tinder, I'll take you just the way you are everytime. You put more time into keeping us current than 100 readers and I thank you for that.

Adi


Not the most insightful or auspicious thing as a first post but it'll have to do for now :)

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Re: Team Waffle Podcast: Feral Roundtable Quesionts

Postby Grenache » Tue Sep 11, 2012 5:11 am

Hi Tinder, thanks for asking my questions - they got more airtime than I expected, even though most of the talk was PvP. I laughed when you said that you talked about loving addons because you're 54. I'm in my mid 40s myself and I'm grateful for Ovale and these forums. I even bought USB foot pedals to help with coordination and keybinds. Was it you that said they used a gamepad or was it Leaf? I use a G13 (or am trying to train myself to use it).

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Re: Team Waffle Podcast: Feral Roundtable Quesionts

Postby Leafkiller » Tue Sep 11, 2012 12:49 pm

Actually, I am the old one (53 not 54). Tinder uses a G13. I have one I have not been using, but I am going to give it another shot.

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