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Symbiosis recommendations

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Re: Symbiosis recommendations

Postby kaiadam » Fri Oct 19, 2012 7:33 pm

Dysheki wrote:I *completely* disagree that rejuv is worthless for a warlock. Any dps that stubbornly refuses to heal themselves at a tiny dps loss for heroic raids when you're not quite up to snuff in the gear department is not using their class the way it was meant to be played. If you're doing a fight like heroic Gara'jal where the dps check is high, sure, rely on your healer (and they shouldn't have mana problems anyway because of the mechanics). But Stone Guard, Feng, and The Spirit Kings (haven't beaten them, but we've killed 2 under 5 minutes easy) have not been very strict on the dps check and you should help your healers out so they don't feel like they have to finish a cast before moving out of the big, bad fire or so they don't have to use an expensive heal. Ever hear "I'M OOM?" Well, that could have possibly been avoided if more people used their mitigations/heals.


It's a question of efficiency.

When was the last time a bandage was used in serious raiding outside of Chimaeron?

Warlock rejuvenation heals for about 6k on use and 6k for 4 more ticks for a grand total of 30k healing done.
Heavy windwool bandage heals for 16k per second, so you can stop at 1.5 seconds for 32k healing done.

If you're going to say rejuv is useful on a warlock, you'd better step up and tell everyone in the raid to bandage themselves when they're low on hp.

---

There's a line you draw on how useful a heal is towards your raid before you are willing to use it. I absolutely will use a Heart of the Wild tranquility on mass heal phases, even during hero and even during phase 3 of Elegon where I'm pushing, quite literally, a million dps. 4 mil healing over 6 seconds is nothing to scoff at.

On the other hand, I'm not going to shift out of cat form to hardcast a healing touch on myself, that's way past the line of efficiency. A warlock's rejuv/shadow priest's tranquility are both solidly in this category of uselessness.

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Re: Symbiosis recommendations

Postby Dysheki » Wed Oct 31, 2012 9:20 am

It seems like Soul Swap is a little buggy (or at least for Garalon). Was looking through logs to see if the +damage modifiers swapped when going from leg to body (which they don't appear to) and found the timing is screwy in terms of periodic damage. Whenever the server acknowledges your new bleeds the timer for the next tick seems to reset.

[23:42:43.083] Dysheki Rake Garalon's Leg *198713*
[23:42:44.850] Dysheki casts Soul Swap on Garalon
[23:42:45.560] Garalon afflicted by Rake from Dysheki
[23:42:45.560] Dysheki's Rake fades from Garalon's Leg
[23:42:48.556] Dysheki Rake Garalon 48231

[23:50:33.343] Dysheki Rake Garalon's Leg 107803
[23:50:35.003] Dysheki casts Soul Swap on Garalon
[23:50:35.789] Garalon afflicted by Rake from Dysheki
[23:50:35.789] Dysheki's Rake fades from Garalon's Leg
[23:50:38.791] Dysheki Rake Garalon 53902

Might not necessarily buggy, just more of the best way for them to do it since there is a server/client issue with soul swap and rather have a tick disappear due to that they just reset the next dot.

(p.s. I wasn't sure to add a new thread in the boss area for it or not, just posted here instead)
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Re: Symbiosis recommendations

Postby aggixx » Thu Nov 01, 2012 12:14 am

@Dysheki: Looks like it's working exactly as intended. Weak Point only increases damage done to the leg you're standing next to.
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Re: Symbiosis recommendations

Postby Dysheki » Thu Nov 01, 2012 9:25 am

Right, the damage modifier is working as intended (I just hoped it wasn't, lol). However my point was the Soul Swap didn't work as I expected because of the added time in between ticks. I guess though I would understand why it works the way it does because of the time it takes to swap the bleeds, I'm just saying I hoped the swap was instant and the ticks continued as if they were on the original target.

It may also work this way for warlocks and could have been expected, I just honestly don't play my warlock.
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Re: Symbiosis recommendations

Postby aggixx » Thu Nov 01, 2012 5:10 pm

Ah I see what you mean. It might not be a big deal depending on what duration is transferred. If it increases the duration of the bleed to account for the additional time added between those ticks then it's fine, otherwise you lose one tick of the dot every time you soulswap a bleed.
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Re: Symbiosis recommendations

Postby Dabeasty » Thu Nov 08, 2012 8:38 am

Just to follow up on this, I am getting some value out of symbiosis on a lock in some fights although I could live without it.

One thing I have noticed, in guild raids and LFR, on RBS (the buff checker addon) hardly any of the druids are even bothering to cast Symbiosis half of the time. Paints a sorry picture for our final ability. Im still a bit underwhelmed by it.

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Re: Symbiosis recommendations

Postby threeeyedcat » Thu Nov 08, 2012 2:33 pm

i hate symbiosis.
it really depends on who is in my group. Our guild 10man raid runs have three druids in it sometimes . two fulltime.. feral [me] and a resto... and a bench resto. At this point symbiosis becomes a nightmare. there isn't a rogue or warlock in our group... they quit in cata. So half the time.. i don't have it on anyone. The other two druids take the shadow priest and shaman. When the changes go through, i will most likely be putting it on the pally tank. Overall.. what a poorly thought out ability. I would love to have an AoE stun on a long timer... or something. Lfr.. LOL is when i use it the most. And challenge modes. Vortex and solarbeam[shaman] with thrash+ Hotw hurricane is fun.

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Re: Symbiosis recommendations

Postby AsgardFM » Thu Nov 08, 2012 2:47 pm

Dabeasty wrote:Just to follow up on this, I am getting some value out of symbiosis on a lock in some fights although I could live without it.

One thing I have noticed, in guild raids and LFR, on RBS (the buff checker addon) hardly any of the druids are even bothering to cast Symbiosis half of the time. Paints a sorry picture for our final ability. Im still a bit underwhelmed by it.


I rarely bother at the moment in 5mans and LFR. The 6 second cast time often causes people to walk out of range or enter combat before you can finish the cast, causing a failed cast. Trying to ask people to stand still briefly has failed so often that I class it as a loss in these environments.

In terms of standard 10man raids though, I'm often able to get some good functionality out of it. Warlock/Shadow Priest are my go to classes - Soul Swap is great for multi-target fights and Dispersion allows for some useful damage avoidance (Elegon being a key one).
If neither of those two are especially needed, I tend to stick it on a shaman. Ghost Wolves have been found to account for fairly low DPS but bonus damage (and selfheal) is always a plus.

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