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stat priority

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stat priority

Postby threeeyedcat » Mon Nov 12, 2012 6:23 pm

i have been reforging with stat priority of:

Agi > Hit=Exp > Mastery > Crit > Haste

i like to stay capped as much as possible. But is there a point to abandon this setup. Or is

Agi > Mastery > Hit=Exp > Crit > Haste [or]

Agi > Mastery > Crit > Hit=Exp > Haste

a better stat priority even if your %to hit is below 7%? i have been wondering as my gear gets higher ilvl [currently running with 486] if i should shift out of my original stat weights. Obviously when moving away from hit/exp cap, i notice my attack power gets higher. Is there a breakpoint to shift priorities in stat weights? I believe i am doing fine with my current stat reforging. i am just trying to raise my overall raid dps. And i don't want to miss something. what are people running with?

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Re: stat priority

Postby Leafkiller » Mon Nov 12, 2012 6:41 pm

On single target fights, Mastery comes out ahead on the stat weights. However, the difference is small enough that I prefer to reforge exactly as you have described, capping hit/exp etc. I think you are fine with what you are doing and would likely not notice much difference if you did reforge mastery ahead of hit/exp other then the occasional frustration that comes from misses/dodges.

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Re: stat priority

Postby threeeyedcat » Mon Nov 12, 2012 7:21 pm

Thanks!
i will probably keep my reforge setup. I happen to stumble upon elitest jerks page.
[url]
http://elitistjerks.com/f73/t130906-fer ... tat_Values [/url]

Which is kinda crazy with haste on the HotW+ SoF setup. I tend to run either DoC+SoF or HotW+SoF.

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Re: stat priority

Postby Tinderhoof » Mon Nov 12, 2012 7:23 pm

Those setups were prior to the HotW nerf. There are several incorrect things in the EJ guide. I would not recomend you getting your info from there.

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Re: stat priority

Postby threeeyedcat » Mon Nov 12, 2012 7:26 pm

i suspected that. Thanks for confirming that tinderhoof. :)

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Re: stat priority

Postby Etapicx » Tue Nov 13, 2012 3:27 am

It is important for maximum gear optimizing to run SimulationCraft with stat values and go from there

Also take in consideration that fight mechanic might change stat priority depending on... Multiple Targets... Rake cleave... Downtime on boss etc.
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Re: stat priority

Postby Seismic » Tue Nov 20, 2012 12:50 pm

I have also been wondering this same thing. My ilvl is 487, which yields a 1.51 mastery value against 1.35 hit/exp values. The result is every piece that can get Mastery will. I am just not convinced this is the best way to go, as I would then have ~5% hit/exp.

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Re: stat priority

Postby Konungr » Tue Nov 20, 2012 12:58 pm

Seismic wrote:I have also been wondering this same thing. My ilvl is 487, which yields a 1.51 mastery value against 1.35 hit/exp values. The result is every piece that can get Mastery will. I am just not convinced this is the best way to go, as I would then have ~5% hit/exp.



The values of Hit/Exp don't matter... at all. You either choose to cap or not, it doesn't matter what their "value" is.

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Re: stat priority

Postby Mendol » Wed Nov 21, 2012 10:29 am

Well, you don't want to go over cap. Those points are worth exactly 0.

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Re: stat priority

Postby aggixx » Wed Nov 21, 2012 4:43 pm

When I last calculated it it was a 0.07% DPS loss to force hit and expertise cap in my gear. You'd be basically insane if you didn't cap your hit/exp at that size of a DPS penalty (especially considering if you didn't play it perfectly you would immediately lose everything you gained), with the exception of a HotW caster build where you would be hitcapped during your HotW anyway.
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Re: stat priority

Postby Instaqueues » Mon Nov 26, 2012 4:20 pm

I have gone a little against the grain on this, but my personal results are what I base it off of.

In a boss fight, I've not noticed much difference in DPS (give or take 2-3k either way). I have a 477 ilvl, so my secondary stats may be the difference in my findings vs you all with 480-490 gear.

I do:
Haste > Crit > Hit/Exp > Mastery
I can sustain 62-63k on a dummy unbuffed this way, when I use:

Mastery > Crit > Hit/Exp > Haste
I can sustain 58-59k on the dummy.

I also use HotW and (not sure of name) the one that refunds 4 energy per CP on finishing moves. I can, however, theorhetically see how mastery would be good if I were good at using my heal just before a 5 CP rip, but with all that's going on in the raid, it lowers my DPS when trying to fumble with it, and go out of cat form half the time...ya..looking into that.


I've yet to hear Hit/Exp cap being on top so I'll mess w/ that tonight. I also only use wrath-spam on Elegon & Feng. However, HotW + Hurricane is HUGE DPS on 3+ targets (around 200k dps w/ my 477 ilvl).

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Re: stat priority

Postby Tinderhoof » Mon Nov 26, 2012 5:28 pm

The target dummies are a great place to pratice your rotation. However they are a poor measuring stick for dps output for a few reasons.
1. You never hit BitW. This will sku your numbers.
2. Very small sample size. Because you can't control how good you did with crits, one reforging set will look good based on number of crits, and timing of crits alone. That is reason the Simulators we use will run fights over 250,000 times and then take the average of those results to produce the numbers.

As for Hit/Exp it just makes sense to cap both. Because our rotation is so tight a few misses at the wrong time can throw everything off. In an environment like a raid where targets are moving or we have to change, missing right before a swap wastes resources and damage. There is no reason to not cap both.

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Re: stat priority

Postby Instaqueues » Mon Nov 26, 2012 10:27 pm

I do understand that simcraft will provide perfect results, especially compared to a dummy, with no buffs, etc. Problem is I'm not perfect :D And some times my brain will space out and I'll chance a FB in hopes of a clear cast or a crit, and it comes, or doesn't come...you know how that goes.

I do, however, hit it for about 10min at a time, and do it a few times. I did try a few builds based on things I saw here today. From my target dummy practices...I got a consistent 2k DPS increase from the build:
Hit/Exp (exactly at 7.50% / 7.49% respectively) > Mastery > Crit > Haste

I'll give it a shot in the raids this week and see how it goes! I know for Elegon I love the haste, mainly for the orb phase, let's me keep more DoTs on Elegon...but I'm willing to try whatever to increase my DPS, I really enjoy this site, and thanks for the tips everyone!

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Re: stat priority

Postby aggixx » Mon Nov 26, 2012 11:24 pm

It's completely possible to do 2 10 minute dummy sessions and have one that's 2k better than the other (or more) purely because of RNG. The amount of time you have to spend on a target dummy to prove anything meaningful in terms of what is best and what isn't would be a collosal waste of time.

One thing Tinder didn't mention is the lack of buffs and debuffs makes a huge difference as well. For example, DoC will surely lose miserably to the other two talents on a target dummy solely because you lack a mastery buff which has a vital synergy with it.
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