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Bottom of DPS, please help.

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Bottom of DPS, please help.

Postby Rabiez » Tue Nov 13, 2012 3:08 am

Hey guys, I'm not one to post on forums, so please be nice. I've not handled 5.0 very well and my dps shows it. I've tried doing the hotw spec, but I choose the cenarius spec instead. My druid is forged to be both kitty and bear since I pop into bear when I can. I am monitoring my dots and buffs with needtoknow. Just got droodfocus and learning that. Anything else I should add in?

Here is my toon: (Yes, I am missing my bracer enchant and it will be Greater Agility. And a friend just reforged me.)
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/s ... z/advanced

Here are my logs:

Stone Guardian:(have had issues in past where i'm tied out to a ranged and they don't move in, i was more lucky this time)
http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-pxnif ... 757&e=1181

Feng:
http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-pxnif ... 560&e=3962

Gara'jal the spiritbinder: (I'm usually pretty good with this boss, but I know I'm considered low dps here too)
http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-pxnif ... 672&e=5005

Spirit Kings:
http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-pxnif ... 460&e=6018

Elegon: the fight I am originally asking for help for.
http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-r8dra ... 304&e=9881

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Re: Bottom of DPS, please help.

Postby Etapicx » Tue Nov 13, 2012 6:13 am

Okay gear vise;

Gloves: Strenght Enchant
Bracers: Agility or Mastery
Weapon: Dancing Steel or Windsong

Reforging Generally i'd say Mastery->Crit->Hit/Exp-Haste with gear like that. hench your mastery is very very low.

Download Ovale and Neiren's Ovale Scripts and pick up Leafkiller's script with Neiren's addon and try it out on dummies to get used with the addon.

Feng Spirit Kings and Elegon is straight forward for you to just follow the addon but on dogs i'd sugest you to keep more DoC buffed rips up on each of em and Thrash as well and Rip on the one that is not likely to be changed. Also Soulswap on 4th combo point to the other dog then just Rake and Rip on the one with CPs on but no dots.
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Re: Bottom of DPS, please help.

Postby Rabiez » Tue Nov 13, 2012 10:01 am

Reforging Generally i'd say Mastery->Crit->Hit/Exp-Haste with gear like that. hench your mastery is very very low.


Shouldn't I be hit/exp capped first since I am Dream of Cenarius specced?

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Re: Bottom of DPS, please help.

Postby Etapicx » Tue Nov 13, 2012 10:32 am

Could value Hit/Exp over Crit but in overall missing a spell sucks indeed especially a DoC spell but taking in consideration on how low chance we have to miss + that the miss will be on a DoC stack as well is in my eyes an over all DPS lost then nerfing damage output by picking away Mastery.

Yes you are true DoC spec increases the value of hit and expertise.
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Re: Bottom of DPS, please help.

Postby Sabrac » Wed Nov 14, 2012 3:55 am

I've tried to compare your WoL Feng kill with my own Feng kill while looking at the differences in gear.

You
Agi: 12969
Crit: 4124
Mastery: 2692
Hit: 2639 (89 over the cap btw)
Exp: 2611 (61 over the softcap)

Average Rake: 29k hit - 57k crit - 29k dot - 61k dot crit (93 % uptime)
Average Rip: 24k dot - 50k dot crit (82 % uptime)
SR Uptime: 90.8 %
Melee: 13k hit - 26k crit

Me
Agi: 11877 (- 1092)
Crit: 3042 (-1082)
Mastery: 3845 (+ 1153)
Hit: 2550
Exp: 2550

Average Rake: 27k hit - 63k crit - 27k dot - 58k dot crit (89 % uptime)
Average Rip: 29k dot - 62k dot crit (84 % uptime)
SR Uptime: 88.9 %
Melee: 11.5k hit - 24k crit

Strange thing though is, you do 54k dps during feng while i hit 62k dps, while looking at these values, it doesn't seem like you're doing anything different than I am doing. Main difference i can see that makes up for this difference in dps is de Rip dmg. Furthermore, I'm a HotW user, not that that should be a dps difference in my advantage, but maybe the DoC healing (for the increased dmg) isn't done right before applying the DoTs?

Main thing i can suggest is using a reforge site, cause atm your hit and exp is well over the cap, those 150-ish points are better off elsewhere :).

My druid: http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/v ... c/advanced (currently logged out with the wrong trinkets and spec, should be feral spec with Relix of Xuen and Searing Words
The world of log i compared yours with: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-0 ... 014&e=5483

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Re: Bottom of DPS, please help.

Postby Helistar » Wed Nov 14, 2012 11:02 am

I did also the same comparison between you and me on Feng. My gear is somewhat higher now, since I got two big upgrades during the evening, but the differences I can spot are:
- the fight duration is almost the same, me 6:45, you 6:42
- I have 405 melee attacks, and I did a relatively long pause while waiting for the flame stacks to drop before phase 3, while you have 311. That's a 25% difference and I cannot understand why it's so big. Unless you have no bloodlust / melee haste auras
- you have better than me uptimes on both rake and rip, but you have 0 uptime on Thrash. Even single-target, Thrash is better DPE than Shred, if you don't need the combo point, keeping up Thrash is good.
- your rake ticks are bigger, but your rip ticks are way smaller. You use Dream of Cenarius, so your ticks should be bigger...

But it's the melee difference which I find really strange.... are you always in melee range?

BTW my log: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/xq7l ... 321&e=1726

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Re: Bottom of DPS, please help.

Postby inkryptic » Wed Nov 14, 2012 1:26 pm

SotF might help?

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Re: Bottom of DPS, please help.

Postby Rabiez » Wed Nov 14, 2012 2:10 pm

SotF might help?


I have SotF. I logged out by accident in my bear spec last night. I love to tank, but I'm feral only for my guild's raids.


@Sabrac & Helistart I noticed I'm not pushing mastery in my reforging before as much. I'm going to be reforging much harder on Mastery. My reforging was how I was taught to reforge my gear, but I will switch to using Ask Mr. Robot.

Our Feng strategy has melee run away and join range for epicenter and when he does draw flame. I've seen other strats, but this is what my guild does.

I just downloaded Droodfocus and I am getting use to it. I noticed my NeedtoKnow doesn't watch when my Rips are the DoC. Drood focus does. So, I'm gonna practice with it.

I also wasn't using thrash as a feral, never thought of it in a single target fight, only used it for trash packs. I'll add that to my boss encounters.


@Etapicx I downloaded the Ovale and Neiren's Ovale Scripts and it's definitely helping me to improve my opener, but once the rotation is going it keeps telling em to use Savage roar all the time. Is that normal? The addon didn't even bother with Rip.


Currently my screen is loaded with addons, so I'll need to clean that up soon. Thank you guys for the feed backs. I'll be posting new logs once I get some.

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Re: Bottom of DPS, please help.

Postby Alpheus » Wed Nov 14, 2012 2:36 pm

Rabiez wrote:
SotF might help?


I have SotF. I logged out by accident in my bear spec last night. I love to tank, but I'm feral only for my guild's raids.


@Sabrac & Helistart I noticed I'm not pushing mastery in my reforging before as much. I'm going to be reforging much harder on Mastery. My reforging was how I was taught to reforge my gear, but I will switch to using Ask Mr. Robot.

Our Feng strategy has melee run away and join range for epicenter and when he does draw flame. I've seen other strats, but this is what my guild does.

I just downloaded Droodfocus and I am getting use to it. I noticed my NeedtoKnow doesn't watch when my Rips are the DoC. Drood focus does. So, I'm gonna practice with it.

I also wasn't using thrash as a feral, never thought of it in a single target fight, only used it for trash packs. I'll add that to my boss encounters.


@Etapicx I downloaded the Ovale and Neiren's Ovale Scripts and it's definitely helping me to improve my opener, but once the rotation is going it keeps telling em to use Savage roar all the time. Is that normal? The addon didn't even bother with Rip.


Currently my screen is loaded with addons, so I'll need to clean that up soon. Thank you guys for the feed backs. I'll be posting new logs once I get some.


I believe you need to have most of the abilities unmacro'd on your bars (well at least that's the case with TF and Berserk). There's also the chance that you're just being too slow or using SR inefficiently. Leafkiller might be able to tell you more about this.
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Re: Bottom of DPS, please help.

Postby Tinderhoof » Wed Nov 14, 2012 2:45 pm

inkryptic wrote:SotF might help?

While he might not have SotF now, he did in his logs. You can see in the buffs gained tab and it will list how much energy was refuded.


Ok Rabiez I have had a few moments to go over your Feng log. I will look at Gara'jal a little later. The reason I look at those first is they are the most simple fights that can best show how we are using our basic rotation (ie least movement, high boss up time).

There are a number of things I see that you can improve on.
1. Your SR uptime was 90%. That is hurting your damage a lot. On a fight like Feng there should be no reason short of death this is below 98%. I see that you have the SR glyph but you don't seem to be making use of it. The reason I say this is looking at your opener you didn't use SR until after your first Rake. You should have SR up before you even pull. While you shouldn't make a habit of it you can pull yourself out of a bad situation with SR by doing a 0 combo point Roar just to make sure it stays up. Even if you stop dps on the boss you should keep SR going so you don't have to spend energy on it when you start attacking again.

2. It looks like you used Ravage to open. While it makes a big number and has a high chance to crit it is just too expensive to open with when you don't have a bleed going (Rake). You need to focus on getting Rip up with in the first 12 seconds of the fight because that is the amount of time your opening 0 point Roar will last. Failing to do this will make you use all of your opening combo points to refresh roar and will push back one of your best damage abilties (this happened to you). You also had to use TF to get going, but missed being able to buff your first Rip with it. You should use Rake for your opener followed by Shred till you are out of energy then TF/Berserk to get the opening Rip going. For DoC it's a little more complicated which I will get to a little later on.

3. It looks like you either had your Tank weapon equipped or you have recently moved your weapon enchant to Windsong. During your fight Colossus was proc'ing. Not having a weapon enchant is leaving DPS on the table. To be honest Windsong just isn't that good for us. I know it's cheap, but Dancing Steel (despite its bugs) is much better for us.

4. TF usage is very spread out. You seemed to use it more often later in the fight but at the opening it looks like you were waiting 45 seconds between casts. I would make sure you are tracking the cooldown and try to use it as MUCH as possible. You could have squeezed in 3 more.

5. You only used Nature's Swiftness one time. If you want to make use of DoC you need to be using the free DoC proc as often as you can to buff your Rip. This is really importent for your first Rip as well. It will be tight to pull off so you need to pratice. But you should try to use NS right before TF/Rip in your opener. This will make sure your most buffed Rip possible will get you started (Pre pot, TF, SR, DoC all at once).

6. If you want to make use of DoC you should also be pre casting a Healing Touch on yourself before the pull. The stacks last 30 seconds so you should have plenty of time to get it casted early.

7. It was menitoned earlier that you should try and mix Thrash into your rotation. This is a good use of OOC procs when you don't need the combo point right away (ie SR or Rip arn't about to fall off).

I do like that you are pre potting, and making use of every Berserk proc that you can. If you can tighting that up just a little bit you could squeeze some more damage out of it. I would really recomend getting Ovale and Nerien's Ovale Scripts (use Leafkillers as default). Once you get it pratice on the dummy for a half hour or so. Everytime Berserk is about to come off cooldown stop so you can pratice your opener. Once you start getting used to it some of our new "uniqueness" will start becoming second nature. It won't happen over night so don't sweat the small mistakes. Just keep pluggin away and you will improve. Good luck.

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Re: Bottom of DPS, please help.

Postby Tinderhoof » Wed Nov 14, 2012 2:50 pm

Rabiez wrote:[@Etapicx I downloaded the Ovale and Neiren's Ovale Scripts and it's definitely helping me to improve my opener, but once the rotation is going it keeps telling em to use Savage roar all the time. Is that normal? The addon didn't even bother with Rip.

Did you go into the setting in Neiren's Ovale Scripts and select Leafkillers script and press the "Set to Default" button? If so the script will always prioritize SR over Rip. If you don't have it up you need to use it asap. Now if you have 15 seconds on SR and it is still telling you to use it that might be an issue. Is that happening?

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Re: Bottom of DPS, please help.

Postby Rabiez » Fri Nov 23, 2012 1:43 pm

I'm sorry for not posting logs sooner, I've been trying out the ovale, droodfocus and other addons. I learned a few things from Ovale and I'm applying it to my rotation. When I was using ovale it wasn't keeping my rip up to my liking. But I was fb a lot more.

example with new addons: (I used addons about first 4 to 5 pulls that session, then went back to normal addon)
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-g ... 014&e=4513

example without new addons & back to usual addon with some changes: (I added thrash to my dots to watch)
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-g ... 535&e=8040

Did you go into the setting in Neiren's Ovale Scripts and select Leafkillers script and press the "Set to Default" button? If so the script will always prioritize SR over Rip. If you don't have it up you need to use it asap. Now if you have 15 seconds on SR and it is still telling you to use it that might be an issue. Is that happening?

I did have the wrong settings, I did fix them. But the Ovale didn't keep rip up enough for me and I was very distracted from the raid by it.

Updates:
New Feng: (4th place in dps!)
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-7 ... 967&e=2365

New Garajal: (I did go to spirit realm, so does it not show my damage there?)
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-7 ... 949&e=3230

New Spiritkings: (I tried out sym with a rogue, but my habit of clearing my cp with a roar made it pointless. I will go back to one of my shammies.)
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-7 ... 586&e=4140

New Elegon: (I'm gonna go read your forum post of this fight since I obviously am not doing well)
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-7 ... 586&e=7145

I do not have the WoL for several fights posted, our offtank was enjoying Thanksgiving vacation. How can I possibly turn down tanking a few fights? :D I'm happy to say I got to tank and down Will of the Emporer. First time I downed Will of the Emperor too on normal.

Question about gear, I won some tank gear during lfr, can I wear that over my usual leather agi if it's more stats? Given the bonus isn't useful as a kitty, but the stats are better. They came in handy when I turned bear last night.
Also, is it okay to lose a few seconds of Rip to put a 5cp fb in or should I just overlap the Rip with a new Rip?

Thank you for your advice! Happy Thanksgiving guys!

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Re: Bottom of DPS, please help.

Postby Rabiez » Fri Nov 23, 2012 1:52 pm

5. You only used Nature's Swiftness one time. If you want to make use of DoC you need to be using the free DoC proc as often as you can to buff your Rip. This is really importent for your first Rip as well. It will be tight to pull off so you need to pratice. But you should try to use NS right before TF/Rip in your opener. This will make sure your most buffed Rip possible will get you started (Pre pot, TF, SR, DoC all at once).


I've been using predatory swiftness to pop my healing touch. So, for the most part I shouldn't be using Nature's Swiftness except when I mess up.

(I forgot to add that in my wall of text)

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Re: Bottom of DPS, please help.

Postby Konungr » Fri Nov 23, 2012 2:33 pm

Rabiez wrote:
5. You only used Nature's Swiftness one time. If you want to make use of DoC you need to be using the free DoC proc as often as you can to buff your Rip. This is really importent for your first Rip as well. It will be tight to pull off so you need to pratice. But you should try to use NS right before TF/Rip in your opener. This will make sure your most buffed Rip possible will get you started (Pre pot, TF, SR, DoC all at once).


I've been using predatory swiftness to pop my healing touch. So, for the most part I shouldn't be using Nature's Swiftness except when I mess up.

(I forgot to add that in my wall of text)


Incorrect. You should be using Nature's Swiftness to buff with DoC on a regular basis, otherwise it's a wasted opportunity.

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Re: Bottom of DPS, please help.

Postby Dysheki » Fri Nov 23, 2012 3:21 pm

Rabiez wrote:Also, is it okay to lose a few seconds of Rip to put a 5cp fb in or should I just overlap the Rip with a new Rip?


Losing a few seconds of rip if you use a FB is fine as long as you have SotF. Reasoning being the damage + energy you gain would make up for the rip downtime. I don't use ovale (hate scripts) but from what I've read here from people using it it's very aggressive in FBs because of that reason.

And what do you mean by 'tank gear'? Which pieces in particular?
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Re: Bottom of DPS, please help.

Postby Instaqueues » Wed Nov 28, 2012 11:18 pm

Downloaded DroodFocus, and using that with combination of BadKitty has helped a ton! For anybody that was like me and wanted to find help anywhere...here is the macro that I'm now using for my healing touch.

#showtooltip Nature's Swiftness
/run SetCVar("autoUnshift",0)
/cast Nature's Swiftness
/cast [target=mouseover,exists,nodead] [target=focus,exists,nodead] [] Healing Touch
/run SetCVar("autoUnshift",1)

Cast it once and it activates Nature's Swiftness, 2nd time casts the spell. Likewise, when PS procs you hit it and it heals normally as well. I had a problem with shifting out of catform, and found this SetCVar crap and it's worked so far.

Also, it heals your focus (hopefully tank) > or your mouseover, > or yourself if neither of those are available.

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Re: Bottom of DPS, please help.

Postby Rabiez » Fri Nov 30, 2012 1:44 pm

And what do you mean by 'tank gear'? Which pieces in particular?

Eternal Blossom Breeches & Eternal Blossom Handguards. These two are better than the 463 gear though right? At the rate I get to go bear, i figured it's ok for now. Right?


Downloaded DroodFocus, and using that with combination of BadKitty has helped a ton! For anybody that was like me and wanted to find help anywhere...here is the macro that I'm now using for my healing touch.


I tried droodfocus, just couldn't get the hang of it. Is there a way to resize it? It's very tiny on my screen. I've heard two of my guilds using bad kitty on their alts, so it's on my list.

Currently my ns/ht is:
/cast Nature's Swiftness
/cast Healing touch

I've been healing myself since when I had it on focus and healing a tank, I was dying and my macro would mess up. So I figured I'd just heal myself until my rotation got better. This past week was just not my week, so many mistakes. Everything from not double potting to not having savage roar up at the pull.

Stone Guards (I got to tank ^_^ but I need to improve): http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-a ... 866&e=1199
Feng: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-a ... 079&e=2428
Spiritbinder(went to spiritrealm once): http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-a ... 060&e=3328
Spiritkings: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-a ... 862&e=4362
Elegon: (I don't get it) http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-a ... 749&e=8287
Will of the Emporer (tanking strengths) http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-2 ... 554&e=6262

Zor'lok: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-2 ... 519&e=8916
Bladelord: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-2 ... 42&e=10120

Although, got a question about Will of the Emperor. My gm wants me to stay in cat spec, but I'm tanking one of the strengths. So I'm in bear form 70% of the time at least. Wouldn't I do more damage in bear spec? Only reason I'm in cat spec is for more damage really, but I know how to tear into stuff as a bear. Tanking is not my strong point, but I love it and want to improve it too.

How are other kitties keeping their bleeds up in some of these fights? Elegon and zor'lok?

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Re: Bottom of DPS, please help.

Postby Instaqueues » Fri Nov 30, 2012 2:18 pm

I want to preface this by saying I'm not the best cat, just trying to provide suggestions from one cat to another!!

looking at Elegon:
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-a ... +TYPE_CAST
I did notice you had a Rip, then 20sec later did a FB (and not a new rip) and didn't rip for a bit of time after that. Obviously there's always things going on that the logs can't describe, but I would guess that it happens more than once if it happened that time?

I understand about healing yourself! I died so many times from just a lack of heals this week. When I did your macro I had the issue of coming out of cat form (cuz I spam buttons to allow for latency) and the macro I provided won't let u cast HT out of cat form, so just a nice preventative measure.

As for will, you should REALLY ask to stay on boss full time to provide maximum DPS amongst the entire raid. It takes so long to get rolling w/ DoTs that it's all wasted on ads. If your raid cannot down the ads quick enough, then ya..you'll have to help. My 10m group doesn't even take me off the boss to kill courages though, they handle the ads pretty well. If you DO have to kill strengths, staying in cat form is fine because they don't really hurt too much, since most of the time they're casting that smash on the ground and rarely swinging at you.

So, if you have to kill strengths, stay in cat form unless you start dying, then bear is fine. But, your other 5 DPS should be able to handle ads, and you should remain on the boss...due to being the slowest ramp up time in DPS.

----
Going back to Elegon, with bleeds, I'm still working on that myself...but I stay on the boss and the other melee dps kills the add. I don't clear stacks on first annihlate (I use SI instead), and clear stacks before orbs come. I then (especially for first orb) get a rake and 1-2 CP rip on the boss, then kill my orb using as little energy as possible...and SR from the xtra combo points. Clear stacks then refresh rake, and rip if your energy is high. Keep that up, then DPS boss hard! I usually have to use TF on 4th (last for our raid) orb and try to get a 5 CP rip before I goto pillars. Rinse and repeat, and I always try to never berserk during hero (because I get energy capped all the time if I do that), so stagger your big buffs in burn phase.

Hope this helps any..use what you want, disregard the rest :D

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Re: Bottom of DPS, please help.

Postby Rabiez » Fri Nov 30, 2012 6:49 pm

I did notice you had a Rip, then 20sec later did a FB (and not a new rip) and didn't rip for a bit of time after that. Obviously there's always things going on that the logs can't describe, but I would guess that it happens more than once if it happened that time?


I had asked previously about refreshing rip and cutting it or getting a bite. If I have the time and my bleeds are good, I'll fb for more damage. I was just unlucky that time, usually I can get rip back up in time.

Yes, I'm happy to be assigned to the strengths. It's kinda my way of practicing to become a back-up tank. My gm doesn't trust me as a tank and really I don't blame him. I'm very new at it but I love it. Yes, huge dps loss on that fight. But I'm having fun, getting practice and I feel more useful tanking the strengths. Definitely gonna try out going kitty once I get aggro on my strength. Sometimes I have issues with aggro since range can hit him first and get the aggro from me.

Hope this helps any..use what you want, disregard the rest :D


Every bit helps! I'll definitely try your way of handling Elegon! Elegon is one of my more favored bosses, I'm sure once I get the hang of him I'll do much better. Thank you for your feedback!

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