Register

Garalon

Revered
User avatar
Posts: 371
Joined: Thu Jan 05, 2012 6:51 am
Location: Ireland

Re: Garalon

Postby Sibylle » Thu Nov 15, 2012 3:02 am

You know, I'm taking issue with the fact that I'm describing our strategy and you come back implying that people are too lazy to move - they aren't, it's the *strategy* we're using. And it does make sense at least for the ranged and healers to bunch up in the middle because there they are out of the way of cleaves, always within range for their own nukes, and can be healed effectively by circles, shamans' chain heal etc.

It's the middle *of the room*, of course.

I'd still appreciate an actual answer to my question.
-Sibylle

"Not a shred of evidence exists in favor of the idea that life is serious." (Brendan Gill)

Honored
Posts: 77
Joined: Tue Sep 18, 2012 4:01 pm

Re: Garalon

Postby Helistar » Thu Nov 15, 2012 5:28 am

Sibylle wrote:We just started on Garalon today, had a few attempts, lowest we got him was around 47%. This is 25man normal.

What they told us melee is to stand in the middle with the ranged (in healing circles etc) when all legs are dead. That means that I mostly use Mangle instead of Shred on the body. It's no big deal, since there are legs up most of the time, I just wanted to know if that's the usual strategy? It makes sense in terms of healing, but at the same time it deprives us of Shred.


On our strategy (still not down in 25man, wiped ad 700k....) we kite the boss around the edge of the room (which makes one leg go out of the combat zone at times, VERY annoying). Healers/casters stand in the middle and we melee run around to DPS the legs. When legs are not available, we pile up behind the boss to take advantage of the positioning. The best position is at the spot of the rear left leg.
We also found that NOT dpsing the front right leg gives us better results: since it never dies it's always the other ones which repop and which are a lot easier to reach (and to dps in heal range). We only DoT it a bit and kill it at the very end for the 3% damage on the boss.

Revered
User avatar
Posts: 371
Joined: Thu Jan 05, 2012 6:51 am
Location: Ireland

Re: Garalon

Postby Sibylle » Thu Nov 15, 2012 8:17 am

Thanks very much, this is exactly what I was hoping for :)
-Sibylle

"Not a shred of evidence exists in favor of the idea that life is serious." (Brendan Gill)

Exalted
User avatar
Posts: 1386
Joined: Mon May 24, 2010 10:21 pm

Re: Garalon

Postby Tinderhoof » Thu Nov 15, 2012 1:40 pm

Helistar wrote:
Sibylle wrote:We just started on Garalon today, had a few attempts, lowest we got him was around 47%. This is 25man normal.

What they told us melee is to stand in the middle with the ranged (in healing circles etc) when all legs are dead. That means that I mostly use Mangle instead of Shred on the body. It's no big deal, since there are legs up most of the time, I just wanted to know if that's the usual strategy? It makes sense in terms of healing, but at the same time it deprives us of Shred.


On our strategy (still not down in 25man, wiped ad 700k....) we kite the boss around the edge of the room (which makes one leg go out of the combat zone at times, VERY annoying). Healers/casters stand in the middle and we melee run around to DPS the legs. When legs are not available, we pile up behind the boss to take advantage of the positioning. The best position is at the spot of the rear left leg.
We also found that NOT dpsing the front right leg gives us better results: since it never dies it's always the other ones which repop and which are a lot easier to reach (and to dps in heal range). We only DoT it a bit and kill it at the very end for the 3% damage on the boss.

When doing this the front left leg for us (we go clock wise around the room) is DPS'd by the tanks. They don't have much else to do but stack vengence from the cleave. The key to wanting the leg down is when all are down he is slowed which may help kiting a lot.

Posts: 15
Joined: Wed Oct 24, 2012 9:43 am

Re: Garalon

Postby Ampzilla » Thu Nov 15, 2012 2:25 pm

Tinderhoof wrote:The key to wanting the leg down is when all are down he is slowed which may help kiting a lot.

I think people underestimate how helpful and important this really is. Killing the legs and keeping Garalon snared as much as possible really makes everything easier. The kiter often times is far enough ahead of Garalon that they aren't going to be cleaved but they don't necessarily want to move further from the boss. Having all the legs down means Garalon is moving slow enough that you can essentially double back or even triple back for 1-2 drops of the pheromone pools before you move back further from Garalon to avoid the cleave. The extra added benefit of this is healers have to move less to keep the kiter in rage and ranged DPS have to move less because Garalon is moving much slower.

Posts: 12
Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2012 5:45 am

Re: Tactic Fails

Postby railyth » Fri Nov 16, 2012 6:32 am

Hey all. i have some troubel On Garalon. i dont know what spec is the best for that fight . Im thinking of SotF and DoC and try to keep buffed bleeds on bouth 1-2 leggs + boddy but i found it abit tricky. Also if i use Incarnation + Nature's Vigil i will get realy nice burst dmg on the legg or boddy. But it feels like DoC is better for this fight. also im wondering if anyone maby have some tips for this fight

Posts: 29
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2012 1:17 pm

Re: Garalon

Postby threeeyedcat » Fri Nov 16, 2012 2:27 pm

i would say for a spec on garalon : HotW. The legs die so quick that many of your bleeds will not get their full duration. Maybe NV+INC. I don't think DoC would be really efficient on this fight. It will give you a nice 25% bonus to rakes [or other attacks]. So I would DoC rake.. not worry about rips on legs. save DoC rips for the main body].

I am preferring to run with HotW for a 6% increase to all my stats. And to get a raid cooldown of HotW+ tranq. Since our healers are running pheromones too. It gives the raid some options.

Exalted
User avatar
Posts: 1386
Joined: Mon May 24, 2010 10:21 pm

Re: Garalon

Postby Tinderhoof » Fri Nov 16, 2012 3:16 pm

Incarnation will be very weak on this fight. As the cooldown is 3 minutes you can use it at most 3 times (7 minute enrage). As the legs die in about 10 seconds your Incarnation will be wasted. Also with the high amount of target switching you will be hamstrining yourself by not taking SotF. HotW isn't a bad option as the damage by the end of the fight is getting pretty bad. DoC is still the best for this fight when paired with Soul Swap, however it is only for those who feel comfortable using it.

Posts: 29
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2012 1:17 pm

Re: Garalon

Postby threeeyedcat » Fri Nov 16, 2012 4:25 pm

yeah.. my raid doesn't have a rogue or warlock. There is not too many symbiosis options. That is another reason i go with HotW. I would love to be DoC on this fight. [10 man normal]

Posts: 3
Joined: Fri Nov 16, 2012 10:45 am

Re: Garalon

Postby Tair » Sat Nov 17, 2012 7:56 am

We kill Garalon in 25 man priorizing the dps on the body and not the legs, i mean, we obviously kill the legs but we realize after many trys that our dps on the body itself was too low. So, a few player (melee specially) focus on the legs when they appear near to the raid and doesn't kill them, just stop dps at 15-10% and with dots, the leg dies.

If everyone is moving the boss in the same way, the leg on the front right gives some problems during the fight, so we kill this leg only with the dps of the tanks and the dots of many caster (mages, locks, sp, moonkin).

For me, this fight sucks, because i have to go with HotW to use it with Tranq at the end of the fight. I have to use Symbiosis on a SP for an extra Tranq and i'm doing pheromons, ¿could be worse? xD

P.D: Sorry for my bad english >.<

Exalted
User avatar
Posts: 1143
Joined: Fri Jun 04, 2010 4:28 am

Re: Garalon

Postby Leafkiller » Sat Nov 17, 2012 2:00 pm

Tair wrote: For me, this fight sucks, because i have to go with HotW to use it with Tranq at the end of the fight. I have to use Symbiosis on a SP for an extra Tranq and i'm doing pheromons, ¿could be worse? xD

P.D: Sorry for my bad english >.<


You should measure the the Spriest tranq. Last we checked it was so bad that the Spriest's own healing spells were far better.

User avatar
Posts: 39
Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2011 3:07 pm
Location: Indianapolis

Re: Garalon

Postby Jaymzhendo » Tue Nov 20, 2012 2:17 pm

Jaymzhendo wrote:25man - Normal...
We do this fight a bit differently than most I assume. We have specific "cleave" melee killing the legs while myself, and Ret Pallys stay on the boss full time. I use Soul Swap from Boss to Legs when one of the back legs is alive.

Tinderhoof wrote:They fixed the Rogue cleave madness. You will likely need everyone killing legs now.


We set that Strategy AFTER the Cleave nerf. We estimated the time to kill legs at ~20-25 seconds and only use enough melee (particularly melee who have cleave damage naturally) on the legs to kill them in that time frame. Of course I help out on the pull on legs, but once Garalon is fully slowed I'm on the boss full time. I then use SS whenever I can put myself inside a back Leg's damage buff circle and SS to a Leg.
Image

Exalted
User avatar
Posts: 1386
Joined: Mon May 24, 2010 10:21 pm

Re: Garalon

Postby Tinderhoof » Tue Nov 20, 2012 2:23 pm

It is actually better to kill the legs with everyone now due to the leg taking 3% off Garalons health. If you leave the leg up for 25 seconds you will keep him slowed, but you will be doing less damage to the boss over all. If everyone kills the legs they go down in about 10 seconds and you got 3% free damage to the boss every time. Because the legs give the double damage them dying in 10 seconds will give more damage to the boss then if the whole raid was on the boss for those extra 15 seconds.

User avatar
Posts: 39
Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2011 3:07 pm
Location: Indianapolis

Re: Garalon

Postby Jaymzhendo » Tue Nov 20, 2012 2:27 pm

You can't kill legs any faster than that tho... so killing them in 10seconds isn't doing any MORE damage to the boss than killing them in 20 however it's a personal DPS increase to myself because I'm not constantly switching targets.

Regardless we weren't killing Garalon prior to making this change and we got our first and repeat kill using this strat.
Image

Revered
Posts: 208
Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2011 10:41 am

Re: Garalon

Postby Dysheki » Wed Nov 21, 2012 11:03 am

Right, there is absolutely no reason for everyone to blow up a leg since the rate at which they die does not increase the rate at which they spawn. You want to pump as much dps into the body while making sure the legs die at a reasonable pace - typically for many guilds that means leaving ranged on the body so they don't have to move and letting the melee kill/cleave down the legs as they come up.

(in my 10 man my caster friends are all dps whores, so I just DoC rake them and go back to the body since dps isn't an issue. but when we start doing heroic they are gonna have to change that up)
Image

Revered
Posts: 208
Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2011 10:41 am

Re: Garalon

Postby Dysheki » Wed Nov 28, 2012 9:44 am

And just to follow up on my Garalon experience: we wiped for no reason on 10H Garalon because everyone wanted to blow up the legs. I kept saying this was silly, no one listened. After wiping to the enrage again we finally switched to having melee on legs, ranged staying put for the most part and two shot it; with nearly 40 seconds left to the enrage timer. Having ranged move so much (with a corresponding raid dps loss because of it) to get into dps range of all the legs is just stupid since it doesn't matter how quickly the legs die as long as they die.
Image

Posts: 2
Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2012 4:21 am

Re: Garalon

Postby Nova » Thu Nov 29, 2012 4:36 am

Hey guys, first time poster. Firstly, thanks for a very informative forum.

My guild is currently working on Garalon 25. Now, overall strategy aside I'm finding I have major problems keeping up with the other melee DPS (I'm talking about Ret Paladins and Enh Shamans specifically, we don't currently have any Warriors or Rogues) whereas on other fights I would usually be doing at least as well as they are, if not better.

I seem to have a total blind spot for this fight, nothing I try seems to produce the desired results. What's the best way to approach the fight to maximise my damage? I've tried Thrash & Swipe cleave on the leg and body and also single targetting the leg then moving to the boss, both with similar results damage wise (still way behind). Part of the problem I think is the legs die much too quickly for me to get any meaningful damage done and I spend more time running around and switching targets than anything.

I have been using SoTF & DoC (which is my usual setup), but looking at some WoL entries some other druids seem to be going with NV, maybe I'll give that a try. I have heard about using Soul Swap to transfer the bleeds, but the raid leader usually insists on giving Symbiosis to a Shadow Priest for an off-spec Tranq.

Any advice is greatly appreciated, we'll be trying again this evening.

Thanks :)

Revered
User avatar
Posts: 371
Joined: Thu Jan 05, 2012 6:51 am
Location: Ireland

Re: Garalon

Postby Sibylle » Thu Nov 29, 2012 7:28 am

I think DoC might be a little difficult to manage on this fight. Not for the pros of course, but as for me, I wouldn't attempt it. All that target switching and running around isn't great for a more-complicated-than-usual rotation.

Personally, I use Heart of the Wild for the passive buff. Also, when the sh*t really hits the fan, I can always pop an int weapon and HotW and cast Tranquility to save the day.

I also minimise movement by using Wild Charge to get to the next leg. I don't really dare to charge across the no-go zone underneath Garalon, but when I'm already on the correct side of his body, Wild Charge gets me there faster and saves me precious seconds. Otherwise I keep up a mostly single-target rotation, dps legs when they are up (apart from the one I can't reach on the front outside) and the body when all legs are dead, and use Thrash on Clearcasting procs. That's pretty much it... The fight has its own rhythm, once you get into that your dps should go up :)

If the legs die very fast you might consider putting melee only on the legs and have the ranged group up in the middle of the room and focus on the body.


P.S. This is one fight when I use a lot of PS procs for self-heal HTs. I'm often out of healers' range when I'm on the outside leg, and also the overall damage can put quite a strain on healers' mana. You can really help them out there without losing any dps! (maybe you're doing that already, I just thought it worth mentioning)
-Sibylle

"Not a shred of evidence exists in favor of the idea that life is serious." (Brendan Gill)

Posts: 2
Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2012 4:21 am

Re: Garalon

Postby Nova » Thu Nov 29, 2012 6:36 pm

Thanks for the reply!

We ended up going 10M tonight due to lack of signups, and killed it after like 15 tries after the kiters sorted themselves out. I went with HOTW (which I usually only use in Guardian spec) instead of DoC/NV and it seemed to work well. I was hesitant to try Wild Charge because I wasn't sure how close it would put me to under the boss. Keeping up on damage wasn't a problem (though possibly because the legs were up for longer therefore I got more time on them) and I even got to grab Soul Swap from a Warlock as there was nobody else worthwhile to give it to. I'll try repeating the process when we go 25M again and see how it turns out :)

Posts: 28
Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2012 1:01 am

Re: Garalon

Postby CalliatTN » Mon Dec 03, 2012 2:14 am

Hey people, i'm having some difficulties with garalon HC.
My GM assigned rogues and mages to cleave legs, and allowed ranged to dot up the legs, as long as at least 2 were still up for the rogue-cleaving, so i only have to kill 1 leg at the beginning, and from then on it's nuking the boss only. At the beginning i was allowed to cleave off 1 leg spawn, but later on in the evening that one went to the rogues in stead. My problem is, that only attacking the boss puts me at almost the lowest dmg of the raid, at about 95k dps, however, everyone who's topping me (except for one awesome warrior) has at least 10 mio. damage less on garalon, and a lot more on his legs. So basically, they aren't really listening to what the gm said, and he's not correcting them because they are pullling 120k+.

Is it better for me to say Phukket, im cleaving the hell outta that guy as well! And if so, how do i optimize my cleave damage? ("cleaving" as in we don't really have cleave, but hey! Multidottings!).
I had a few tries where i had more uptime on the legs, but even then i only increased my dps by 5-10k overall, and lost the 10 mio. on the boss.

I used a warlock symb. for swapping fresh bleeds onto a newly spawned leg, as suggested here, but later on switched over to a warrior symbiosis for the final phase as we were wiping on 1-5%.

Any suggestions?

Revered
Posts: 208
Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2011 10:41 am

Re: Garalon

Postby Dysheki » Mon Dec 03, 2012 10:13 am

Blizzard could have spawned legs quicker in the encounter if you were able to kill them quickly, but they were a little sly with this fight. Rather than be a boring 'dps everything that has +damage modifier' you have to be intelligent on how you dps things. Everyone needs to be on board and understand what's going on. Raid dps can be greater at the cost of individual dps (i.e. what you were trying to do - but on a larger scale). If they aren't being team players it's difficult to pull off the fight.

I'm guessing you are 25 and I'm not quite sure how everything scales there, but in 10 we went from wiping at enrage one night, to two shotting it the next night after the complete switch (posted above) with time to spare. Had nothing to do with gear, spec, class changes; everything to do with a different mindset.

As a side note when I had soul swap I would pump into a leg and swap my bleeds off the leg and into the body, just felt better since the body would always be alive and legs might not benefit from the full time on bleeds (but you have to be careful because if you don't swap in time the bleeds will be lost). I ended up just going with dispersion because of kiting pheremones (in case of a bad crush+trail).
Image

Honored
Posts: 73
Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2012 1:19 pm

Re: Garalon

Postby kaiadam » Mon Dec 03, 2012 2:11 pm

As mentioned previously, Garalon legs are less an opportunity for you to maximize your personal dps, but rather a resource to be used to meet the enrage timer for the fight.

When you single target, most classes have abilities that hit multiple targets anyway. Other classes have dots that increases their damage on their main target, or have absurdly high damage dots compared to their single target. These are the abilities that you want to use on the legs.

Ferals, warriors, mages, and rogues should all be cleaving, but the important part is that you guys are using abilities that generally will do damage to the boss as well, or very efficient multidotting. For example, as a feral I'd only rake & thrash the leg, nothing more.

The more people that go "screw it" and start fully dpsing the legs, the worse your wipes will be. This is one of those fights that you're just going to have to swallow your pride for the good of the raid. Feel free to return the favor and wreck them on later fights.

Honored
Posts: 110
Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2011 12:28 pm

Re: Garalon

Postby adianar » Tue Dec 11, 2012 6:07 pm

So as a feral working on this in 10 reg progression, to be clear, we're talking about FFF, rake, thrash on cooldown on leg and a full dps'd rip on body concurrently trying to keep both up? Am I trying to keep a DOC'd rake on each or a full DOC'd rake and rip on body while staying on legs for white damage? What approximately should the damage % be between legs and body on a kill? We're getting 5-8% wipes somewhat repeatedly and feel we're close at this point.

At the moment, out of desperation, we dropped one tank for a dps warrior in defensive stance for pheremones with 3 heals. Damage sits between 65k-70k for 2 kiting hunters, 28k for tank warrior and about 70k for defensive stance dps warrior. The higher end dps goes to 110k with mage and boomie. All this is without a kill. Seems like we're still missing something based on these metrics. 3 healers are all between 45-70k HPS.

Thanks,

Adi

User avatar
Posts: 39
Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2012 11:08 am

Re: Garalon

Postby Vaporgriffin » Tue Dec 11, 2012 6:23 pm

adianar wrote:...3 healers...


This looks like your problem to me. How many stacks of pheremones are you letting the kiter get to before swapping? If you have 3 healers going full-tilt, you're likely getting too many stacks. Have one of your healers go dps, make sure to trade pheremones at no more than ~20 stacks and you should be fine. Your damage numbers look roughly on track for normal mode afaik.

My group isn't on heroic yet, so I can't entirely relate to Kaidam's suggestions, personally. For normal mode we blow up all 4 legs at the start and then keep 3 of them down the rest of the time between myself and the other melee (DK). For the front outside leg the ranged throw some dots on it to take it down eventually, but it's not a high priority as long as the other 3 are under control. With 2 melee popping legs, we still get a decent amount of time to switch back to the body in between legs coming up.

Also, I wouldn't suggest using thrash on cooldown or you'll be incredibly energy-starved. Absolutely use your clearcast procs to thrash the leg and the body, but don't use too much energy trying to keep thrash up.

Honored
Posts: 110
Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2011 12:28 pm

Re: Garalon

Postby adianar » Fri Dec 14, 2012 1:34 pm

We went to two heals for some attempts and ended up a few more % pts down. We're struggling at the 2 heal level though as I'm always using my BR every pull. Last night we had a horrible comp, so i think the dps is there while the healing is dicey but there. Last pull was 4.8 Mio at enrage. Sunday we'll give it a go again.

Any ideas on the % dps on legs VS body across the DPS spectrum? I'm still unsure we have enough DPS on the body as well. I'm trying to not have that be the next hold up... Also, I am energy starved based on thrash, but was reviewing previous posts and thought the bleed cleave would be worth it. I'm guesssing its still only on proc however? If that's so, am I attempting to maintain bleeds on both body and legs? FFF, rake, rip on body and full rotation on legs? I'm hearing/seeing melee on legs primarily, then secondary on body while casters may work a more balanced dps approach?

Thanks as always,

Adi

PS
Last edited by adianar on Fri Dec 14, 2012 1:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

PreviousNext

Return to Boss Archives

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest