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Tsulong

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Tsulong

Postby Tinderhoof » Tue Nov 13, 2012 10:37 pm

This topic is for discussing Feral DPS tactics and/or general raid strategies for the Tsulong encounter.

Please feel free to post tips, tricks, videos or ask questions. I will do my best to keep the top post updated with information as it arrives.

When discussing, please mention raid size (10/25) and difficulty (normal/heroic).

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Re: Tsulong

Postby mmufasa » Wed Nov 21, 2012 8:23 pm

i wanted to know is hotw better for this fight or is doc

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Re: Tsulong

Postby Ampzilla » Thu Nov 22, 2012 10:56 pm

Any fight that has a lot of adds that die fairly quickly make hotw a good option. This fight has the added benefit that in the first part of the first day phase you can get some insane NS>HT and regular casted HTs on the boss for decent healing (just make sure you get hit by his breath). I think I did around 4.5% of the healing, which is possibly worthless but could be the difference between a wipe to enrage and a kill if your guild is still trying to find a good balance between DPS and stacking an extra healer or two.

As far as DoC goes, I think it would be almost worthless during day phase because you really have to focus down the low health adds and then don't even live long enough for rake to tick more than 3-4 times I'd imagine..if that.

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Re: Tsulong

Postby kaiadam » Fri Nov 23, 2012 8:39 am

Hotw for any progression fight, doubly so for Tsulong. Do 15 mil damage night phase then 20 mil healing day phase. That one talent literally brings more to the fight than an entire pure dps.

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Re: Tsulong

Postby Sibylle » Sun Nov 25, 2012 4:56 pm

kaiadam wrote:Hotw for any progression fight, doubly so for Tsulong. Do 15 mil damage night phase then 20 mil healing day phase. That one talent literally brings more to the fight than an entire pure dps.

:o Seriously?? How on earth do you do that? We just did our first 25man Tsulong kill (normal) and I did 8.63 mil healing with HotW. I used it on the second day phase.

My dps sucks too on this boss. Sometimes I think I'm just too stupid for this game.
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Re: Tsulong

Postby Leafkiller » Sun Nov 25, 2012 7:19 pm

Sibylle wrote:
kaiadam wrote:Hotw for any progression fight, doubly so for Tsulong. Do 15 mil damage night phase then 20 mil healing day phase. That one talent literally brings more to the fight than an entire pure dps.

:o Seriously?? How on earth do you do that? We just did our first 25man Tsulong kill (normal) and I did 8.63 mil healing with HotW. I used it on the second day phase.

My dps sucks too on this boss. Sometimes I think I'm just too stupid for this game.


Did you stand in the breath while healing?

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Re: Tsulong

Postby Tinderhoof » Sun Nov 25, 2012 7:58 pm

I would like to see this as well. When I last used a HotW Tanq on this fight (with wings on Tsulong) I healed for 3 million on the tranq, but only 1.2 million of that hit Tsulong. I made sure to be standing right next to him so the smart heal would always pick him. Even with every PS'd HT I don't break 1.5 mill.

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Re: Tsulong

Postby kaiadam » Sun Nov 25, 2012 11:30 pm

I don't have a video available for Tsulong, but here's what I do in day phase:

Screw around until first breath is casting, activate hotw, potion, and time my healing touch so that it lands about a quarter second after breath hits me. Then, rejuv, healing touch, and NS healing touch.

Just chain healing touch (and keep rejuv up) until second breath, then basically do the same thing - healing touch so that it lands just as the breath is cast, then healing touch twice more and rejuv as your last spell.

Done correctly, you get 6 healing touches and 2 rejuvs while the 500% buff is active (usually, wings and divine hymn are running as well).

I averaged ~1.5 mil non-crit and 3.4 mil crit healing touches, and rejuvs are slightly more healing than healing touches, so 8 empowered heals at around 2 mil each = 16 mil, and then around 2-5 mil filler while the breath debuff isn't up.

I don't think tranquility is a good use of the breath, but ymmv.

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Re: Tsulong

Postby Sibylle » Mon Nov 26, 2012 2:51 am

I did stand in the breath (or at least I hope so, the animation is a little weird so I'm never sure). What I did was pop HotW with weapon swap to int weapon + offhand, keep up Rejuv and otherwise spam HT.

Edit later: Reading Kaiadam's account, I probably didn't. Can't check logs now as I'm at work (the inconspicuous light background of this forum is ok; the black background of WoL isn't! Hehe).
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Re: Tsulong

Postby Yriss » Mon Nov 26, 2012 7:53 am

i do the same things than kaiadam, timing my first healing touch (under hotw) with first breath. When hotw is down, i help on adds, dps and kick them and i go back to take next breath, droping another healing touch +rejuv, depending on my mana ... My better HT was around 4.2 millions (hotw, crit +breath +NS, 463 blue int weapon, probably guardian angel up too) ...
I'm not sure about tranquility too, if it's to heal the boss ... But it can help other (real) healeurs to focus more on boss, and not on raid
@sybille: try to make a powa/tmw/other addon to track breath debuff, it can help a lot, don't waste mana if you are not under hotw and you havent this debuff

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Re: Tsulong

Postby Ampzilla » Mon Nov 26, 2012 5:04 pm

Yriss wrote:i do the same things than kaiadam, timing my first healing touch (under hotw) with first breath. When hotw is down, i help on adds, dps and kick them and i go back to take next breath, droping another healing touch +rejuv, depending on my mana ... My better HT was around 4.2 millions (hotw, crit +breath +NS, 463 blue int weapon, probably guardian angel up too) ...
I'm not sure about tranquility too, if it's to heal the boss ... But it can help other (real) healeurs to focus more on boss, and not on raid
@sybille: try to make a powa/tmw/other addon to track breath debuff, it can help a lot, don't waste mana if you are not under hotw and you havent this debuff

I thought you weren't suppose to interrupt the adds because if they get the cast off they lose 15% of their own health. Maybe it depends on your healers and how comfortable you are with killing the add before it reaches Tsulong?

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Re: Tsulong

Postby Yriss » Mon Nov 26, 2012 11:24 pm

we had very few casters on this boss, 6 only, healers weren't able to heal all melees on adds (2 bolts @240k each was deadly, or 1bolt +1 terrorize tick), dps on them wasn't a problem so we kicked a lot ... With more ranged it's probably easiest to heal, just standing near healers, mass dispell on terrorize timer etc... but we haven't ...

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Re: Tsulong

Postby bearpelt » Fri Nov 30, 2012 11:05 am

Since HotW matters quite a bit here, I'd like to ask if swapping my SP weapon (Staff of Trembling Will - unenchanted) over Gao-Rei, Staff of the Legendary Protector-Dancing Steel for Day Phase healing is still better? If it is, why?

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Re: Tsulong

Postby Leafkiller » Fri Nov 30, 2012 4:52 pm

bearpelt wrote:Since HotW matters quite a bit here, I'd like to ask if swapping my SP weapon (Staff of Trembling Will - unenchanted) over Gao-Rei, Staff of the Legendary Protector-Dancing Steel for Day Phase healing is still better? If it is, why?


You should probably enchant your Staff of the Trembling Will. It will be better because it has 5151 spell power that more than compensates for the 899int vs 1223agi on the weapons.

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Re: Tsulong

Postby bearpelt » Sat Dec 01, 2012 2:11 am

Did a couple of comparisons between staves and it is indeed as you say!
http://pastebin.com/bSj9ExS5

What should I enchant the SP staff with to maximise healing?

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Re: Tsulong

Postby Tinderhoof » Sat Dec 01, 2012 3:18 am

Since healing spells can proc Dancing Steel that is going to be the best one. However, because that is beyond crazy expensive for a blue weapon. Wind Song isn't to bad, because 2 of the 3 proc's can help but it is far from optimal.

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Re: Tsulong

Postby LiquidDruid » Fri Feb 15, 2013 9:05 am

doing this on HM with guild progression atm, any tips?

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Re: Tsulong

Postby Dysheki » Fri Feb 15, 2013 1:10 pm

Not many feral specific tips. Hopefully you won't need to kill the little buggers at night because that can kill your dps with constant CP switching. HUGE help is typhoon - both the adds at night and the unstable shas during the day can be knocked back and it will be incredibly helpful to keep them from reaching their target.

During the day you want to interrupt any unstable shas you can interrupt within reason. And depending on how your raid is doing you should try to interrupt shas when they are targetting a squishy target (especially if they are low - mostly meaning don't interrupt if a sha is targetting a tank). You could use some instant HTs on Tsulong, but honestly I would rather use my HTs on a raid member so to let the healers efficiently heal Tsulong more and the raid less.

Also pay attention to when the night phase is about to end. Don't put up a new rip if most of it will be wasted because all of the debuffs on tsulong are wiped (I think).
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Re: Tsulong

Postby Tinderhoof » Fri Feb 15, 2013 1:57 pm

Quoted from Kaiadam earlier in the thread:
I don't have a video available for Tsulong, but here's what I do in day phase:

Screw around until first breath is casting, activate hotw, potion, and time my healing touch so that it lands about a quarter second after breath hits me. Then, rejuv, healing touch, and NS healing touch.

Just chain healing touch (and keep rejuv up) until second breath, then basically do the same thing - healing touch so that it lands just as the breath is cast, then healing touch twice more and rejuv as your last spell.

Done correctly, you get 6 healing touches and 2 rejuvs while the 500% buff is active (usually, wings and divine hymn are running as well).

I averaged ~1.5 mil non-crit and 3.4 mil crit healing touches, and rejuvs are slightly more healing than healing touches, so 8 empowered heals at around 2 mil each = 16 mil, and then around 2-5 mil filler while the breath debuff isn't up.

I don't think tranquility is a good use of the breath, but ymmv.

We are doing progress on this right now. It gives Ferals (and boomkins) a really big boost to helping out with the enrage timer. Doing normal single target on Tsulong during the night, and try to weave a Thrash refresh when the dark of night adds come close to you. Like Dysheki said Typhoon is your friend. I am using it almost on cooldown day and night (when I am not doing HotW).

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Re: Tsulong

Postby Stenhaldi » Tue Feb 19, 2013 9:47 am

On 10H, I went into the fight expecting to do a lot of healing in the day phase, but it turned out that the day-phase DPS check (for killing adds) was severe enough that losing one of the 5 damage dealers would have been crippling. Moreover, we found that as long as we held things together, we'd win about halfway through the second day phase anyway. In the end I settled for landing a rejuv and (instant) HT on each breath, and saving HotW for the end of the second day phase in case something went wrong.

Just something to consider if you're doing 10H with 3 healers. Obviously, things are different on 25H when you're just one of 15 (or so) damage dealers.

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