Register

Leafkiller's 4.1 Feral Ovale Script

Face-rippin fun.

Moderator: Forum Administrators

Revered
Posts: 457
Joined: Sat Jan 29, 2011 7:17 am

Re: Leafkiller's 4.0.6 Feral Ovale Script

Postby shinryu » Tue Mar 08, 2011 9:01 am

I'm always on Anshal, and can confirm he can be charged as well. Dunno why it wouldn't work for any of the 3 really, as they're all on a platform (unlike jerks like Al'Akir that you can't charge).

Posts: 4
Joined: Tue Feb 22, 2011 2:49 pm

Re: Leafkiller's 4.0.6 Feral Ovale Script

Postby Finandir » Tue Mar 08, 2011 7:11 pm

Leafkiller wrote:Mid-post edit since Tinderhoof responded - I have had failures on Halfus at the start of the fight charging a Drake - so it may have to do with the topology of the platform. The drake was near the whelp cage and I was between the two passageways.


The likely problem with the drakes isn't topology but the fact that it takes them a little while after they are talked to to actually become attackable. If you tried to soon, your charge would fail. If you tried after they could actually be attacked, yet still at the beginning of the fight then I don't really know what would be causing the problem.

Revered
User avatar
Posts: 327
Joined: Wed Dec 29, 2010 12:24 pm
Location: Moonglade

Re: Leafkiller's 4.0.6 Feral Ovale Script

Postby Sylvaneart » Tue Mar 08, 2011 7:43 pm

Well if it happens again this week i am going to open a ticket.
Be sure to subscribe to The Fluid Druid RSS feed and follow me on twitter! @Sylvaneart

Honored
Posts: 80
Joined: Wed Jun 09, 2010 12:22 pm

Re: Leafkiller's 4.0.6 Feral Ovale Script

Postby Mihir » Wed Mar 09, 2011 3:56 am

Afaik the issue with the drakes is that they're considered flying units, and as such is not considered to be standing on the ground. Hence charge cannot find a path to them. (this is easily seen in BWD as the drakes there tend to fly over the vault as well from time to time)

Posts: 46
Joined: Sun Jan 16, 2011 5:47 am

Re: Leafkiller's 4.0.6 Feral Ovale Script

Postby Beanna » Wed Mar 09, 2011 5:02 am

Yep, like every drakes in BWD those in Halfus' fight can not be charged because they fly above the ground. Even if they are in range for attacks, our FC can not find any available path.
About Magmaw and Al'akir, it seems that warriors can charge them but not druids, probably because of the placement in the back that is specific to FC. Although it is normal for Magmaw, I do not really understand why Al'akir break problem ... There is no risk to end up in his back and that is part of the job of the player to watch tornadoes. Disappointing. :/

Posts: 43
Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2010 1:48 am

Re: Leafkiller's 4.0.6 Feral Ovale Script

Postby Evil » Wed Mar 09, 2011 9:59 am

@Leaf:

As you know I love you work quit some time now. Now I have 4piece T11 bonus and as I remember since some last versions you included the self checking of T11 4piece bonuses. My game play, since I wear 4piece T11, isn't the same anymore with all these mangles at the beginning - and at the end of each fight I make less dmg as with non 4piece rotation.

So I have few questions:

1.) Could I disable the Mangle option in the menue - because I have to mangle all the time to get the 3 stacks up?
2.) Would be wonderfull if you could add the old function again where you could select if you want to use the T11 rotation or not? Would be really great if I could decide to use the T11 rotation or not.

For me right now - I make even more dmg without the automatic 4piece bonus rotation. So would be great if you could add this to the options again!?

Posts: 24
Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2011 11:29 am

Re: Leafkiller's 4.0.6 Feral Ovale Script

Postby syntax » Wed Mar 09, 2011 10:01 am

Evil wrote:For me right now - I make even more dmg without the automatic 4piece bonus rotation. So would be great if you could add this to the options again!?

t11 4 piece is a definite increase in dps. stop letting the debuff fall off and you won't lose dps.

Exalted
User avatar
Posts: 1145
Joined: Fri Jun 04, 2010 4:28 am

Re: Leafkiller's 4.0.6 Feral Ovale Script

Postby Leafkiller » Wed Mar 09, 2011 1:54 pm

4 piece tier 11 is about a 300 dps increase - I am not sure why you would want to disable it, but I can add in an option to ignore it. It just seems counter productive.

Revered
Posts: 388
Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2011 5:51 pm

Re: Leafkiller's 4.0.6 Feral Ovale Script

Postby ShmooDude » Wed Mar 09, 2011 4:21 pm

Leafkiller wrote:4 piece tier 11 is about a 300 dps increase - I am not sure why you would want to disable it, but I can add in an option to ignore it. It just seems counter productive.


Depends on the encounter. There are some encounters where it WILL fall off unless you are super conscious of keeping it up (conclave comes to mind; even then it means extra mangles vs shreds). Sometimes encounter mechanics means it'll drop off (omnitron, malorak, probably others). You also lose it to battle rezzing (which I have to do frequently on progression encounters, where it counts). Perhaps you could simulate how often if would have to drop off before it became not worth keeping up?

300 DPS up is pretty low considering we're talking 20k damage, that's 1.5%. If we're losing shreds to mangles due to it dropping off I'm sure that margin becomes lower. I almost wonder if its worth using offset items instead for the stats >.>

User avatar
Posts: 12
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:29 pm

Re: Leafkiller's 4.0.6 Feral Ovale Script

Postby feralCat » Wed Mar 09, 2011 9:55 pm

Leafkiller, thanks for all of your work on this.

Would it be possible to include a few more (maybe 4 more) "cooldown" boxes on the right? I'd like to watch a few more things.

Edit: Before anyone freaks about a crowded UI, remember Ovale's option to hide empty boxes. You wouldn't have to look at them if you don't configure them.
Last edited by feralCat on Wed Mar 09, 2011 10:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Posts: 24
Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2011 11:29 am

Re: Leafkiller's 4.0.6 Feral Ovale Script

Postby syntax » Wed Mar 09, 2011 10:10 pm

ShmooDude wrote:I almost wonder if its worth using offset items instead for the stats >.>

If you find yourself having trouble keeping the buff up, then it's probably better to have offspec pieces. In which case you wouldn't have 4-piece and the script wouldn't detect it and therefor wouldn't suggest it. I don't find myself having trouble keeping the buff up at all and we all have to battle rez and do random thing. If you have to battle rez, check the buff... if it's about to fall refresh it first.

Exalted
User avatar
Posts: 1145
Joined: Fri Jun 04, 2010 4:28 am

Re: Leafkiller's 4.0.6 Feral Ovale Script

Postby Leafkiller » Thu Mar 10, 2011 2:36 am

300 dps is a fair amount for 1 piece of gear. Most of us will kill just to get a 10 dps up after all...

Ok - so the request is for 6 programmable boxes to the right, and a switch to ignore the tier 11 bonus? Anything else? Better to get them saved up so I can do the changes in one pass. I will need help testing this since I am still stuck at 3 tier pieces.

Exalted
User avatar
Posts: 1658
Joined: Mon May 24, 2010 10:21 pm

Re: Leafkiller's 4.0.6 Feral Ovale Script

Postby Tinderhoof » Thu Mar 10, 2011 3:13 am

syntax wrote:
ShmooDude wrote:I almost wonder if its worth using offset items instead for the stats >.>

If you find yourself having trouble keeping the buff up, then it's probably better to have offspec pieces. In which case you wouldn't have 4-piece and the script wouldn't detect it and therefor wouldn't suggest it. I don't find myself having trouble keeping the buff up at all and we all have to battle rez and do random thing. If you have to battle rez, check the buff... if it's about to fall refresh it first.


If you shift out of cat form it removes Strength of the Panther no matter how long it had left on the timer.

It's the same issue that Bears had with vengence falling off if they shifted to caster to Brez. Blizzard fixed it so you would only lose vengence if you shifted to cat (so you couldn't cheat on the ap). Hoping they fix this as well.

Posts: 43
Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2010 1:48 am

Re: Leafkiller's 4.0.6 Feral Ovale Script

Postby Evil » Thu Mar 10, 2011 5:35 am

syntax wrote:
Evil wrote:For me right now - I make even more dmg without the automatic 4piece bonus rotation. So would be great if you could add this to the options again!?

t11 4 piece is a definite increase in dps. stop letting the debuff fall off and you won't lose dps.


I know its a dps gain - but in my experience at alot of encounters it would be very positive with a options to ignore the automatic T11 4piece rotation. At some counters I need a full burst dmg phase - and within bursts - it would be great to have that option to disable it.

@Leaf: Would be great if you could include this checkbox into the option area - I'm sure alot of us will use it for some encounters. Thanks in advance dude!!

Evil

Posts: 18
Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2011 7:24 am

Re: Leafkiller's 4.0.6 Feral Ovale Script

Postby Oronare » Thu Mar 10, 2011 7:26 am

Just wondering what that black paw icon is meant to represent? on the left.

Is there any way to modify this to where it is just ONE icon?

Thanks

Revered
User avatar
Posts: 327
Joined: Wed Dec 29, 2010 12:24 pm
Location: Moonglade

Re: Leafkiller's 4.0.6 Feral Ovale Script

Postby Sylvaneart » Thu Mar 10, 2011 9:36 am

Leaf I know your script is ready or you wouldn't have released it, but is the new version of ovale ready? Have you noticed any problems or tweeking that needs done besides your script being copied in?
Be sure to subscribe to The Fluid Druid RSS feed and follow me on twitter! @Sylvaneart

Posts: 24
Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2011 11:29 am

Re: Leafkiller's 4.0.6 Feral Ovale Script

Postby syntax » Thu Mar 10, 2011 10:39 am

My shitty unreliable "napkin math" actually tells me that the 4-piece is a DPS again in real-world fights, but not by much.

Omnotron kill Tuesday--
98% strength of the panther uptime.

I had 66 shreds: 26 crits at 36k average, and 40 non-crits at 18k average.
I had 18 mangles: 8 crits at 20k average, and 10 non-crits at 10k average.

With the fight lasting 5 minutes and 13 seconds, that tells me I mangled about 5 extra times then I should have. Either the buff fell off or I got spam happy once or twice.

If you convert all those mangles to shreds you end up with 208k extra damage ([16k*8] + [8k*10]).

Now I know this may not be right, so correct me if I'm wrong... but rawr tells me that 4 piece tier 11 gives me 667 additional attack power. Rawr also tells me that each point of AP gives me 1.04 DPS. The fight lasted 5 minutes and 13 seconds so 318*667*1.04=220k damage. 220k damage with 4pT11 vs 208k without is only a whopping 12k total damage increase. Now that's assuming 100% uptime of the buff fully stacked which isn't true. The damage of my mangles and shreds would also be decreased without the AP from SotP, but it should be relatively the same (I think?).


Atramedes--
On Atramedes the issue should be magnified since it's guaranteed that the debuff will fall for every air phase, in addition to having to rez and human error.

Strength of the panther uptime was only 75%.

63 shreds: 43 non-crit @ 16k, 20 crit @ 33k
23 mangles: 9 non-crit @ 12k, 14 crit @ 22k

Mangles -> Shreds = 190k extra damage

Fight lasted 6:48 so 408*667*1.04=283k extra damage with 4PT11. But we all know on that fight you aren't DPS'ing the entire time as melee so I believe there are 3+ air phases which automatically reduces the dps time by 120 seconds, so 288*667*1.04=199k damage. Yes, there are bleeds still ticking and such, but even if you took the 283k damage that you could do by DPS'ing the entire time, you'd have to reduce it by 25% due to due to buff uptime which brings it down to 212k damage.


Cho'Gall last week--

97% SotP uptime.

73 shreds: 43 non-cirt @ 14.6k, 30 crit @ 30.6k
37 mangles: 25 non-crit @ 9.9k, 12 crit @ 19.2k

Mangles -> Shreds = 254k damage.

Fight lasted 7:11 so 433*667*1.04=300k damage with 4PT11. 300k-254k=46k=106k dps increase.


So all in all it DOES seem like a dps increase, especially because there are many fights where we have to mangle a lot anyway (Al'Akir, nef adds depending on your spot on the platforms, maloriak if you have to stand in front on red phase, chimaeron often during feud (heroic esp), and cho'gal adds). However, it is a very minimal increase, and on fights where you would normally not have to mangle extra times, I'd be willing to bet it would be a DPS increase to have offset pieces instead.

Exalted
User avatar
Posts: 1145
Joined: Fri Jun 04, 2010 4:28 am

Re: Leafkiller's 4.0.6 Feral Ovale Script

Postby Leafkiller » Thu Mar 10, 2011 1:39 pm

An easy way to test what turning on/off the 4 piece bonus does is to bring your toon up in Mew and toggle the t11 switch. This does not test any dps loss due to inferior secondary stats on tier pieces though. On my current toon the bonus comes to 330dps in Mew.

Exalted
User avatar
Posts: 1145
Joined: Fri Jun 04, 2010 4:28 am

Re: Leafkiller's 4.0.6 Feral Ovale Script

Postby Leafkiller » Thu Mar 10, 2011 1:48 pm

Sylvaneart wrote:Leaf I know your script is ready or you wouldn't have released it, but is the new version of ovale ready? Have you noticed any problems or tweeking that needs done besides your script being copied in?


3 new versions of Ovale have been released in the last week. I have not noticed any issues with them.

@Oronare - the Black Claw tells you that you are not in melee range. That is the main rotation box and if you can't cast anything you see that. Get closer and it will tell you what to cast next. I find it incredibly useful - especially on kite phases.

@Syntax's napkin math - Mangle costs 35 energy while Shred costs 40 energy. RAWR uses a formulation model with based on a rotation that has not been published. Last time I checked it seemed to be reasonable for comparing pieces of gear but I would not use the math there to judge a buff - simulation is more reliable for that.

Posts: 24
Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2011 11:29 am

Re: Leafkiller's 4.0.6 Feral Ovale Script

Postby syntax » Thu Mar 10, 2011 3:01 pm

How do I simulate "dead time" in mew, but on a random basis? I would like to see what mew comes up with if you made the debuff fall off once per fight, or 3 times per fight, for example.

I did download mew and mess around with it. I forgot about the cost difference between mangle and shred, but at only a 5 energy difference you're talking 1 less shred per 8 mangles. So my numbers wouldn't be off that much. Mew actually tells me AP is only worth 0.99 dps per point (using your simulator), so rawr was pretty close with 1.04.

Posts: 18
Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2011 7:24 am

Re: Leafkiller's 4.0.6 Feral Ovale Script

Postby Oronare » Thu Mar 10, 2011 4:23 pm

Ahhh I see!

There are two boxes though, is there any way to just have one rotation box? the second just seem to be the same as the first, or shows the cooldown of another spell.

Posts: 24
Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2011 11:29 am

Re: Leafkiller's 4.0.6 Feral Ovale Script

Postby syntax » Thu Mar 10, 2011 4:43 pm

Oronare wrote:Ahhh I see!

There are two boxes though, is there any way to just have one rotation box? the second just seem to be the same as the first, or shows the cooldown of another spell.

The left box is your normal rotation included filler shreds. Meaning it will tell you to shred when rip, rake, mangle, faerie fire, and roar are all up. The right box is normal rotation minus filler shreds. This is important because it will show you shred if it's part of the shred glyph, and it will show you when then next thing is about to fall of so you can plan ahead. If you see rip or rake in that box (for example) with only a few seconds left, you don't want to be mashing shred and losing all of your energy so you can refresh it.

Posts: 43
Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2010 1:48 am

Re: Leafkiller's 4.0.6 Feral Ovale Script

Postby Evil » Thu Mar 10, 2011 5:44 pm

I personaly think the option to deactivate the automatic 4piece rotation would be very helpfull. It would be a option - so anyone that wants to test encounters with and without T11 set rotation ( and as the word says - option, so anyone could decide to activate or deactivate it).
Hopefully you get this done Leaf - would really appreciate it!! Thanks in advance!!

Evil

Exalted
User avatar
Posts: 1145
Joined: Fri Jun 04, 2010 4:28 am

Re: Leafkiller's 4.0.6 Feral Ovale Script

Postby Leafkiller » Thu Mar 10, 2011 6:33 pm

syntax wrote:How do I simulate "dead time" in mew, but on a random basis? I would like to see what mew comes up with if you made the debuff fall off once per fight, or 3 times per fight, for example.

I did download mew and mess around with it. I forgot about the cost difference between mangle and shred, but at only a 5 energy difference you're talking 1 less shred per 8 mangles. So my numbers wouldn't be off that much. Mew actually tells me AP is only worth 0.99 dps per point (using your simulator), so rawr was pretty close with 1.04.


I am not sure you would want to simulate dead time on a random basis - as repeatability is helpful (although you could do that). You can easily put dead time into a rotation though - and at any intervals you wanted. For example, we could model Atramedes including the air phases and a little downtime when dodging (and even make the dodging time a little variable).

The problem with napkin math is that it does not accurately reflect all of the interactions of a rotation. The small amount of saved energy does not necessarily all go into more shreds. Some of it could translate into slightly higher uptimes on Rip, Rake or SR. The details inside of what actually happens are why sims are better than formulation to answer dps questions with some level of precision. If you want a good example of that, just go read the Mew thread on EJB and look at the posts bewteen A Civilian and me. He suggests that Rip should always be refreshed during TF if it was cast prior to the TF. He presented napkin math that demonstrated the dpe increase. When I plugged it into the sim code, the results I got were not as significant as was expected given his napkin math. Analyzing the Mew output a couple of things came to light. First off, the cost of extra Rip refreshes was not just to Shred, but also to other abilities - even when the Rip refresh was prioritized lower than the other abilities. Also, the number of extra Rips was smaller than one might have expected - only 2.4 in a 5 minute fight. But analysis of the output suggests that is believable. The third thing that came to light is that Mew is assuming a 2 second increase in Rip time for each of the three shreds used to extend it, but real life data suggests that the increase is actually more on average - and you sometimes get 11, 12 or even 13 Rip ticks per Rip. So Mew is underestimating the potential increase from A Civilian's idea.

As for RSVs - they tell you the incremental value of adding 1 of a given stat at a given gear point. For large stat increases RSVs are entirely unreliable. Plug in the stat increases and run the simulator. You will get much more reliable data. If you are curious, change your stats in several increments and check the RSV at each increment. The results will surprise you. I plan to do a series of reforges shortly and will publish the results including both measured dps and also calculated RSVs.

Posts: 24
Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2011 11:29 am

Re: Leafkiller's 4.0.6 Feral Ovale Script

Postby syntax » Thu Mar 10, 2011 6:54 pm

How would i add dead time? I searched the net for a good amount of time and couldnt find any documentation. And how can i randomzie it?

Thanks

PreviousNext

Return to Kitty DPS

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests