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Kitty DPS priority - difficult choices

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Kitty DPS priority - difficult choices

Postby blipped » Tue Dec 18, 2012 7:43 pm

Hi all,

First time posting - greetings to everyone =). This forum has been an invaluable source of info to me in thinking about and learning to perfect my kitty dps.

I think I understand the priority list more or less, and I hope I'm applying the concepts correctly. However, certain situations crop up time and again, where I'm not sure what the right thing to do is. in particular, these two situations below crop up very often and I find myself at a bit of a loss.

1) Savage Roar and Rip about to expire at the same time (in the next 6-8 secs) : I have 5 combo pts - if I refresh savage roar, I may or may not have the combo pts to refresh rip again in the near future (depending on crits, OOC prods). Typically I wait till the last second, refresh rip, then go with a zero combo pt savage roar. Given the time remaining, this leads to energy capping sometimes, but is normally manageable with thrash. On the other hand, I am wondering if it makes more sense to refresh savage roar early (wtih >6 secs left) and then spend the rest of the time building to the next rip.

2) 5 combo points and Refreshing Rake This happens quite a bit. For some reason (crits, ooc) I have 5 combo pts, and rake is about to fall off in the next 2-3 secs. I don't want to spend the combo pts because either savage roar or rip is going to fall off in the next 5-6 secs, and if I use the points on ferocious bite, I won't be able to refresh on time. Typically, I just rake anyway, and waste the extra combo point. Am not sure if there is something more optimal I can do here?

Finally, I know the issue of dot clipping has been talked about. I just want to be clear that it is OK to refresh both rake and rip early with a buffed version, no matter how long the time remaining.

Thanks all for advice!

Regards

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Re: Kitty DPS priority - difficult choices

Postby timmydactal » Tue Dec 18, 2012 7:59 pm

For scenario #2 I typically just use rake to refresh it

as for scenario #1 both seem fine, I generally prefer to refresh rip and use a 0-1 cp SR. it's probably a DPS increase to refresh SR though but that also depends on your talents/tier situation.

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Re: Kitty DPS priority - difficult choices

Postby Tinderhoof » Tue Dec 18, 2012 8:40 pm

Hi Blipped. Welcome to the community.

1. Assuming you have SotF (which you should) you will likely be better off by refreshing SR first. You will likely have some down time yes, but it will be more energy efficent in the long run. Let me explain. When you cast SR with your 5 combo points you will get 20 energy refunded. In all you spend 5 energy to have 42-45 seconds of SR time that you won't have to spend combo points on. If you refresh Rip with and do a 0 point SR, you spend 25 energy, and only have 12-14 seconds. That means you will need to spend what ever combo points you can build in that time on another SR. By the time that 12 seconds is up and you have refreshed SR again Rip will be about 6 seconds left and you are right back where you started of expecting Rip down time. Either way you are looking at some Rip down time. However refreshing SR first will save you energy as all of your finishers will be 5 points and thus refund you 20 energy each time. The 0 point option you get nothing back.

2. The short answer here is taking a risk by using FB can yield more damage, but can also cause more down time then you might like. Just refreshing Rake won't hurt much. You should take a glance at where TF is on the cooldown, and what fight mechanics are coming up before choose if you go safe or go agressive.

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Re: Kitty DPS priority - difficult choices

Postby Instaqueues » Wed Dec 19, 2012 2:32 am

I've been working on #1 scenario more lately, and have gotten a lot better about preventing an energy cap with thrash. I run into that same situation so many times :P I read recently that if you notice those 2 timers are synced, to just go ahead and 5 CP your SR to de-sync them. I did that a lot tonight, and actually started meeting my SimC expected numbers, whereas the past 2-3 weeks I've been staying 3-5k under my expectations.

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Re: Kitty DPS priority - difficult choices

Postby blipped » Wed Dec 19, 2012 4:12 am

Yes this is quite true. It always seems that once it starts to happen (rip and sr falling off together) it seems to keep right on happening after that. I'll start making that change from now on =)

Separately I also asked if it was correct to always clip your dots (both rake and rip) with the buffed version? obviously not straight away since that would be a waste of energy, but sometimes u get a confluence of events, like tiger's fury coming off CD, trinket procs etc. It annoys me a bit if say TF comes off like 5-6 secs after Rip needs to be refreshed, which is too long to wait, but too short to refresh. Even worse TF comes off with a trinket proc at the same time.

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Re: Kitty DPS priority - difficult choices

Postby blipped » Wed Dec 19, 2012 8:48 am

Well I just went to try it out on the raid dummy, and I am actually very pleasantly surprised at how much of a difference it made.

I focused less on trying to keep rip on 100%, and tried as far as possible to keep SR up with as many combo pts as practical, and FB whenever possible.

Over 4 x 10 min periods, consistently did about 1k more dps than my best attempts before and am very much smack right on what simc says is the mode dps for my gear level.

Thanks all for the helpful advice =)

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Re: Kitty DPS priority - difficult choices

Postby Leafkiller » Wed Dec 19, 2012 12:47 pm

blipped wrote:Separately I also asked if it was correct to always clip your dots (both rake and rip) with the buffed version? obviously not straight away since that would be a waste of energy, but sometimes u get a confluence of events, like tiger's fury coming off CD, trinket procs etc. It annoys me a bit if say TF comes off like 5-6 secs after Rip needs to be refreshed, which is too long to wait, but too short to refresh. Even worse TF comes off with a trinket proc at the same time.


We have done a lot of sim work on when it is a dps up to clip DoTs. First, the rules are different for Rip vs. Rake. We found it is a dps up to clip Rake anytime you can replace it with a Rake that will do at least 12% more damage per tick, even if it means casting back to back Rakes. We also found it was worth clipping a Rake with <= 6 seconds left if a DoC proc is up and the Rake will not lose DPS if clipped.

Rip is clipped less - no doubt because the resource requirements are much higher (5 combo points). It is worthwhile to extend a Rip at <= 6 seconds if you have a DoC proc and the Rip ticks will not lose damage per tick. That is the only rule we currently use for Rip clipping.

We also found it is worthwhile to refresh Rip with a Rip rather than a FB if you are in BitW and can gain at least a 14% dps gain per tick and the mob will be alive for at least 30 more seconds.

All of these numbers and rules are what we found from doing many hours of work with Simulationcraft. A key thing to keep in mind is that you need some way to know how the tick damage on Rip and Rake is going to change if you clip them. Ovale (using my script), Droodfocus and (I believe) FBLite all have this capability. Collie also posted a Weak Aura that can track this in the UI/Addon section of this forum: viewtopic.php?f=11&t=4446

If you really want to dig into the finer points of the rotation, you can try looking through the sim script here: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=817

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