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Looking for DPS Benchmarks

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Looking for DPS Benchmarks

Postby blipped » Tue Dec 25, 2012 8:18 pm

Hey guys,

First of all, hope everyone had a merry christmas! =)

Looking for some benchmarks on what kind of dps output I should be putting out. Did a HOF the other day and the numbers weren't great. Broadly, came in at 55 ish k dps, give or take, for 10 man normal Windlord, Ambershaper and Empress. Was told that dps was far too low and got dropped for the following TOES run.

Now my gear isn't the greatest (at 475 ilvl) and I'm wondering how much better I can do. I know it's very much dependent, on gear, spec fight, but I was looking for broad ballparks. What kind of numbers were you guys putting out when you were at similar gear levels for these fights? in the 50-60 region? 60-70? My mate says I should be putting out around 70-ish k dps or so, but I honestly don't know if I can or if that is a reasonable expectation.

Armory here if it helps: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/frostmourne/Nombresix/simple

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Re: Looking for DPS Benchmarks

Postby Instaqueues » Wed Dec 26, 2012 10:45 am

a good benchmark site is

http://www.raidbots.com
On the left side, choose which fight (normal/heroic/10m/25m) to look at. It will average the top 100 parses on that fight, to give you an idea of what class can do what for a particular fight.

and http://www.raidbots.com/epeenbot/
Find your character, find your fight, (have to be captured on world of logs) and find what percentile you're in. 75th Percentile means you are doing better than 75% of captured ferals for example.


Hope this helps some!

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Re: Looking for DPS Benchmarks

Postby Tinderhoof » Wed Dec 26, 2012 2:40 pm

Raidbots is not a good spot for what he is asking for. He is looking for based on his gear level what he should be putting out. Raidbots is filled with the top performers, most geared, and most lucky folks of the spec. It is not the place to compare your self with others of your same Ilvl unless you are doing cutting edge progression (which you let us know is not your goal).

It looks like you are in your resto gear right now. If you swap back to your Feral gear I could get a closer look. One thing I did note last night is that you arn't using your Inscription "free" shoulder enchants. It costs almost nothing for a much bigger chunk of stats. Have a look at your recipes to find what I am talking about.

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Re: Looking for DPS Benchmarks

Postby Instaqueues » Wed Dec 26, 2012 4:09 pm

but I was looking for broad ballparks.


This is what I was referring to. And to elaborate a bit, raidbots will show you which specs are best on the fight (by comparing top 100 parses).


The epeen bot measures ALL world of logs records, and shows you what percentile you're in. This includes the 20k dps and the 180k dps feral. In 475 gear I'd suspect on normal fights you'd want to aim for 40-50 percentile.

I was in the 90+ percentile with 485 gear and I'm over-geared for normals, and 10 ilvl is quite a jump. So data combined with common sense can always give you an accurate perspective.


We had a 470ish rogue pug with us this week on normal windlord/amber shaper and I think he did about 80-90k on wind-lord fight.

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Re: Looking for DPS Benchmarks

Postby aggixx » Wed Dec 26, 2012 6:24 pm

I think you're making way too many assumptions there, if you have to guess what percentile you should be able to achieve with your gear that's no better than just guessing the DPS you should be able to achieve.
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Re: Looking for DPS Benchmarks

Postby Instaqueues » Wed Dec 26, 2012 6:57 pm

Yes, I agree, but I think knowing 40-50% on all fights is better than 12 different fights for DPS :D

I guess we could say on Feng, you could probably aim for ~70k. On Windlord maybe aim for 100k (hotw + hurricane). Hard to say on individual fights, but regardless, check your percentiles on epeen, see if you improve each week (that's really the biggest thing). Then see if your percentile stays the same (that would suggest you are improving at the same rate as everybody else) or is your percentile improving, going down? All of this information will help you determine if you're on the right path or not.

It could also be a case of HotW activated, then you get in an amber prison and nobody gets you out! That would cause a dps loss.

But don't jump on my back! I'm just giving the guy tools to track his progress. Basically you never want to see your percentile go down from week to week, cause then you are 1) doing worse and worse, or more likely 2) doing the same as last week while everyone else improves.

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Re: Looking for DPS Benchmarks

Postby aggixx » Wed Dec 26, 2012 7:04 pm

Instaqueues wrote:But don't jump on my back! I'm just giving the guy tools to track his progress. Basically you never want to see your percentile go down from week to week, cause then you are 1) doing worse and worse, or more likely 2) doing the same as last week while everyone else improves.

Yeah, totally. Epeenbot is a very helpful tool I just wanted to say that it's not exactly what he's asking for. If you play consistently your DPS should improve every week, barring poor RNG, but that doesn't mean you're playing well.

It could also be a case of HotW activated, then you get in an amber prison and nobody gets you out! That would cause a dps loss.

That's what paladin symbiosis is for! :D
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Re: Looking for DPS Benchmarks

Postby blipped » Wed Dec 26, 2012 7:52 pm

Have logged out in my feral gear =).

Had a look at raidbots, and holy crap. For the three fights I was referring to, I'm not even in the 10th percentile, based on the 14 day moving average for the 10 man normals. I'm clearly doing something extremely wrong.

Next time I get a chance on this, i'll log the fights and pore over them to find out what exactly I'm doing different from 90% of ferals....

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Re: Looking for DPS Benchmarks

Postby Tinderhoof » Wed Dec 26, 2012 9:08 pm

blipped wrote:Have logged out in my feral gear =).

Had a look at raidbots, and holy crap. For the three fights I was referring to, I'm not even in the 10th percentile, based on the 14 day moving average for the 10 man normals. I'm clearly doing something extremely wrong.

Next time I get a chance on this, i'll log the fights and pore over them to find out what exactly I'm doing different from 90% of ferals....

This is what I was getting at. You are trying to compare yourself to Ferals who are much more geared then you, and have had weeks doing these kills over and over. According to your Armory you have only killed bosses on normal 1 time this tier. At your current level using Raidbots will not help you at all and will likely just add confusion.

Yeah, totally. Epeenbot is a very helpful tool I just wanted to say that it's not exactly what he's asking for. If you play consistently your DPS should improve every week, barring poor RNG, but that doesn't mean you're playing well.

The other side of this is also true. If you see that you go down over the next week, it doesn't mean you played badly. Maybe other folks at your same skill level got a new weapon. Unless you are pushing serious progression Raidbots is not a good measuring stick for evaulating your output.

What you need to do is pick up Ovale and Leafkillers script and do some pratice work on the training dummies. Also next time you get into a raid make sure you link us the logs and we can have a look.

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Re: Looking for DPS Benchmarks

Postby aggixx » Wed Dec 26, 2012 9:19 pm

I looked at a log of yours briefly, your Savage Roar uptime is quite decent (still a little room for improvement), but your rip and rake uptimes are not what they could be. There's a lot of specifics that I can't tell from logs alone so I apologize if any of these things are things you're already doing:
  • Think of rake as a replacement for shred that also applies a bleed. Whenever rake is getting low (less than three seconds) you want to swap a single shred out for a rake. Remember that for all dots if you refresh it between the second to last and last tick (like I said, for rake the magic number is 3 seconds) the remaining duration will be added to the duration of the new bleed that takes it place. Keeping this in mind, it's possible to obtain almost 100% uptime on rake on something like Gara'jal or Feng. This is the simplest thing that will get you the biggest DPS gain. On any number of targets 7 or fewer (ditching rake for more swipes becomes superior at 8) you should try to keep rake on as many targets as possible, although swipe is a lot easier to do so you may want to consider trying that as well and see if it works better for you until you can get used to watching a bunch of rake timers at the same time (a good nameplate addon helps a ton with this).
  • Until you can get your Rip uptime to around 85% or higher on a single target fight, I would suggest using Ferocious Bite very very sparingly if at all. Optimal use of Ferocious Bite is actually fairly aggressive but you're not doing yourself any favors if it's impeding your ability to learn how to manage your Rip uptime to your fullest extent. Rip has a 2 second tick timer so you can refresh it anytime it goes below 2 seconds to help get a little higher uptime (always with 5 combo points, of course!).
  • Like I said at the top of the post, your Savage Roar uptime is good but there's room for improvement. Since it's the highest priority in your rotation you want to aim for as high as you can possibly get it, 99% or higher is not unachieveable. While unlike other finishers it's okay to use it with any number of combo points, more combo points on a SR is always better as it reduces the amount of times you'll have to spend that 25 energy to refresh it, and also reduces the number of times that it's possibly for it to fall of the same time as Rip. Just like Rake, Savage Roar has a hidden "tick timer" of 3 seconds so you should aim to refresh it anytime it goes below 3 seconds in most cases. It's okay to refresh it below 6 seconds as well if it will help you out with keeping your Rip and SR from falling off at the same time but you don't want to do this every time.

And like Tinderhoof said, Ovale + Leafkiller's script can help you learn a lot. Even if you don't want to use it all the time it can help you realize some of the subtleties of when you should and shouldn't use certain abilities, you'll be surprised how much you can learn just by paying attention to what it's suggesting and when!
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Re: Looking for DPS Benchmarks

Postby blipped » Wed Dec 26, 2012 9:36 pm

This is helpful advice.

This may be a noob question, but how did you manage to look at the logs? I haven't uploaded any?

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Re: Looking for DPS Benchmarks

Postby Tinderhoof » Wed Dec 26, 2012 10:06 pm

Your guild is likely doing the logs. We just look at your guild name and server from the armory and check to see if logs were uploaded under that guild name. I didn't do that myself as I was at work today.

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Re: Looking for DPS Benchmarks

Postby blipped » Wed Dec 26, 2012 11:12 pm

Have been playing with ovale and the script. It's really interesting how very different the decisions I would have made are. The key learning pts I guess is how often the script refreshes rake - everytime a trinket or two procs it seems, on top of the the usual timer. It's also much more willing to "waste" combo pts, shredding past five points in order to be able to refresh stuff on time. This is good stuff to learn from =)

But the thing that really bugs me is how it uses tiger's fury and berserk. Are we not supposed to dump energy and tiger's fury then berserk? I can understand if the timings don't sync, but v often tf and berserk are both off cooldown and the script just won't want to use TF before berserk?

Am trying to understand the logic here and wondering if it's because TF is better used buffing rake and rip, and hence, those 6 seconds are less beneficial if all we're doing is shred shred shred to FB during berserk?

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Re: Looking for DPS Benchmarks

Postby Instaqueues » Thu Dec 27, 2012 12:06 am

blipped wrote:Have logged out in my feral gear =).

Had a look at raidbots, and holy crap. For the three fights I was referring to, I'm not even in the 10th percentile, based on the 14 day moving average for the 10 man normals. I'm clearly doing something extremely wrong.


If this is your first kill you're looking at, don't feel bad at all. I'm often at 9-20 percentile on a first kill. That comes from not knowing when to use CDs, saving things for emergency, trying to help healers...etc. etc.

I can't remember which fight but I went from 9-Percentile to 80 to 95 and have been around 95 ever since. It's best used to mark your progress from week to week.


As far as the Ovale script, mine seemed to work good with TF+Berserk.

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Re: Looking for DPS Benchmarks

Postby aggixx » Thu Dec 27, 2012 7:54 am

blipped wrote:But the thing that really bugs me is how it uses tiger's fury and berserk. Are we not supposed to dump energy and tiger's fury then berserk? I can understand if the timings don't sync, but v often tf and berserk are both off cooldown and the script just won't want to use TF before berserk?

The script should never be suggesting for you to use either unless you're less than 35 energy. What you may be missing is that it is assumed that you have a Tiger's Fury + Berserk macro (that pops TF and then Berserk at the same time) and that when it suggests to use Berserk you're supposed to hit that macro. Alternatively, you can disable the "Cat Berserk" option in the menu (right click on the ovale frame to open the menu) and just manage your berserk cooldown by yourself.

blipped wrote:The key learning pts I guess is how often the script refreshes rake - everytime a trinket or two procs it seems, on top of the the usual timer.

Yeah, it tends to do that a lot because we've found that to be a DPS gain to do so. Like I said earlier, Rake is merely a substitute for Shred that also applies a bleed: it does direct damage just like Shred does, so as long as the amount of damage you're gaining is making up for the difference in direct damage then it's completely worth it, and it gives you cheaper combo points than shred as well.
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Re: Looking for DPS Benchmarks

Postby blipped » Fri Dec 28, 2012 9:29 pm

Ah yes! i unchecked that option and it was fine.

Separately, just wanted to say I found my (very high) dps benchmarks watching Kaiadam's feral POV 25H videos, where he conveniently states his ilvl and shows the dps meters in this Ui =)

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