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T15 Set bonuses

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Re: T15 Set bonuses

Postby aggixx » Thu Jan 10, 2013 7:56 pm

T15 is way better than the T14 bonuses are for sure, if nothing is changed.

@Tinder: Ravage bonus is 50% I believe so that would put the crit cap for ravage at 13%, lol.
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Re: T15 Set bonuses

Postby aggixx » Sat Jan 12, 2013 1:58 am

Cross-posting from MMO-C regarding how the 2p affects DoC's ability to get the damage buff onto a finisher:

You hardly even have to pool.

Assuming 5% melee haste from gear and 35% raid buffed crit (something you could probably achieve this tier with the right gear, so it's not unreasonable at all):

If it's a 5 point finisher you get 20 energy from the SotF return, and you get 73.5 energy over the course of the PS buff from your energy regeneration.

If you get a single Omen of Clarity or Primal Fury proc you're guaranteed to make it even if you pool 0 energy. The chance of getting at least 1 primal fury proc is 72.54%. In the 7 second window that you have to get to 3 cp, you would execute a minimum of 8 autoattacks, which puts your chance of proccing at least 1 Omen of Clarity at 27.86%.

So if you combine those two things you have a 80.19% chance of being 100% guaranteed to be able to reach 3 combo points in the 7 second window of the PS, and in the 20% chance that you get neither a PF or a OoC proc you only need 11.5 (or 26.5 with Shred) energy to reach 3 CP regardless.
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Re: T15 Set bonuses

Postby aggixx » Sat Jan 12, 2013 4:59 am

Something to consider is that if the 4-piece bonus works like Dream of Cenarius does, where attempted attacks consume a charge regardless of if they land, it will make Hit and Expertise by far the best secondary stat.
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Re: T15 Set bonuses

Postby Etapicx » Sat Jan 12, 2013 5:37 am

aggixx wrote:Hit and Expertise by far the best secondary stat.

I do think (And hope) most of us cap Hit and Exp more or less already but that point is right and i do think that case is because the attack is landing but is getting dodged/parried whatever it still consumes the charge.
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Re: T15 Set bonuses

Postby Dysheki » Thu Jan 17, 2013 2:51 pm

I tried to prod a response from GC in the tier bonus thread for you guys that were concerned about the increased divide between DoC builds and non-DoC builds, but it's apparently not on their radar because they haven't said anything.
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Re: T15 Set bonuses

Postby Tinderhoof » Thu Jan 17, 2013 4:31 pm

It's ok Dysheki. I tired for months in beta. Huge long posts. My thread for Feral Druids ended up being 22 pages long. We got a grand total of 2 replies the entire beta. First telling us that Incarnation was still good (even though the previous post had math proving otherwise). And second in response to people expressing distaste for the change to SR. It was a longer response but still boiled down to, we don't like the Cata way as it's to easy. That's it.

I am going to try again sometime this weekend with a big post about our current bugs (both filed and not fixed during beta). I will also make a smaller one in the class feedback thread. I have already tried twice on twitter but no luck there. If there are other Ferals with Twitter accounts keep asking the question about NS making us drop form, and HT giving us a 1.5 second GCD. Please be polite. Thanks.

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Re: T15 Set bonuses

Postby raffy » Thu Jan 17, 2013 5:36 pm

I've been having a lot of luck lately getting indirect blue attention. Surely it's just correlation, but the last few days have been interesting:

I started a few threads and posted countless times in the various Arm's turtling in Defensive thread about 25% damage reduction and 0 rage cost on Arm's attacks. Soon after, Dstance changed to 15% and Overpower rage cost bumped to 10. I even mentioned Second Wind healing not being the issue, and that was reverted.
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic ... ?page=2#21
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/7415466811
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic ... ?page=5#83
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic ... ?page=5#97

I posted in the Warbringer thread:
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic ... ?page=2#39
and like 10 minutes later the PTR notes had Warbringer on normal stun DR.

I just posted in the PTR Class and Set bonus thread yesterday:
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic ... age=25#487

And boom:
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic ... age=26#518
Feral PvE 4 pc - now also affects Ravage and Swipe (in addition to Mangle, Shred and FB).

Tinderhoof wrote:and HT giving us a 1.5 second GCD.

This was my major request. I think HT being spell-gcd in Cat form is so freaking clunky and ruins the flow of our rotation, considering we also have SR and FF to maintain which also do 0 damage. When Heroism/Berserk/TF/2xTrinket/Potion are active, the last thing I wanna do is waste GCD cycles for zero output.

I've tweeted to GC a few times, linking various threads (mostly bugs). While I never got a direct response, all the things I linked were fixed in 5.1 patch.

Additionally, the Blizzard API guy responds very quickly to feedback and even answered (and implemented) a personal feature request!
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic ... ?page=1#20

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Re: T15 Set bonuses

Postby Tinderhoof » Thu Jan 17, 2013 5:52 pm

I saw your post and the quick reply. Nice job! Glad some of us are getting through. Keep it up.

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Re: T15 Set bonuses

Postby lamchopp » Thu Jan 17, 2013 6:38 pm

I just wanted to chime in and say I think that's a great idea that we're on the map when it comes to discussing changes, especially regarding the HT GCD. Let me know if there's anything I could do to get our voice heard and again, I commend you good sir.

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Re: T15 Set bonuses

Postby Tinderhoof » Thu Jan 17, 2013 6:58 pm

There is always something you can do. If you have a twitter account send a tweet to @ghostcrawler. Make a post in the Class/set bonus thread. I am going to do a state of feral (PVE) post this weekend. Add your thoughts. The problem we have is a lack of volume right now. There are a few ferals posting, but not enough. Not much has been made of the HT GCD bug since the beta. Make it an issue as it will not hamper everyone instead of just DoC using ferals.

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Re: T15 Set bonuses

Postby Sorcerer » Thu Jan 17, 2013 7:55 pm

If someone can add to tweet, my recent idea would be to:

- Add new skill in spellbook for ferals only to make HT healing an absorb if the heal itself was overheal. Caping at % cat health to not make it overpowered or the absorb be % of the heal, doesnt need to be 100% ratio.
- up tranquility coeficient outside of HOTW or shorten the cast... idk. Something else could be added to make it more appealing.
- make symbiosis actually sth that I have to remember each pull to cast, currently there is almost 0 punishment for not doing so for cats at least.

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Re: T15 Set bonuses

Postby raffy » Thu Jan 17, 2013 8:16 pm

In addition to the push for a 1.0 GCD on PS+HT, I think we should try to get Rejuv added to PS. "Catjuv" would be nice for PvP, instead of 100% overheal HT's.

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Re: T15 Set bonuses

Postby aggixx » Thu Jan 17, 2013 9:37 pm

Druid
- Cyclone range reduced back to 25 yards. (It was 30 yards in an earlier PTR build.)
- Glyph of Cyclone - increases range by 5 yards (rather than 4 yards which was an odd number left over from when it was a % increase).
- Maim damage has been increased by 100%.
- Feral PvP 2pc - now also increases Bear Hug duration by 1 sec.
- Feral PvP glove - has changed. It now increases Maim damage by 100%.
- Balance / Restoration PvP glove - changes have been reverted and once again increases the range of Cyclone by 5 yards.
- Feral PvE 4 pc - now also affects Ravage and Swipe (in addition to Mangle, Shred and FB).

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic ... age=26#518

Yay for 130% crit chance ravages.
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Re: T15 Set bonuses

Postby raffy » Thu Jan 17, 2013 9:53 pm

I thought it was worth suggesting Ravage (and Swipe) on the 4pc.

Not that I would ever use Incarnation in PvE, but most fights are 6+ minutes (3+ uses), so if you're using Incarnation, this is still worth it since the Boss isn't at 80% the entire fight :p. Possibly, if the charges/buff doesn't have a short timer (like if it lasted 30 seconds), then maybe the +40% crit would of been better spent on the next 3 FB's during Incarnation, but I didn't sim it because I'm not interested in Incarnation.

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Re: T15 Set bonuses

Postby aggixx » Thu Jan 17, 2013 9:58 pm

Well we don't know how long the buff lasts yet, if it lasts like 30 seconds then yeah it's definitely safe to say it would be better for it to not affect Ravage, because then the bonus would go to 3 FBs which is surely more damage (and less prone to crit capping).
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Re: T15 Set bonuses

Postby raffy » Thu Jan 17, 2013 10:51 pm

If the 4p buff lasts long enough, I'd be tempted to build cp with Rake and throw all the crit benefit at FB.

You could action-list this pretty easily with a high priority Rake, that checks for 4p charges and <5 cp.

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Re: T15 Set bonuses

Postby Tinderhoof » Thu Jan 17, 2013 11:03 pm

I was thinking about this too. I am assuming they are going to try and avoid that being what they did last time when Rake ended up being a better filler. Fastest damn fix I ever saw.

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Re: T15 Set bonuses

Postby aggixx » Fri Jan 18, 2013 2:59 am

I'm 90% certain it won't last more than 10 seconds so I don't think we should worry about it. And if it was 30 second duration they'd just nerf it into the ground again like they did in MoP prelaunch.
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Re: T15 Set bonuses

Postby raffy » Fri Jan 18, 2013 6:36 pm

Changed again:
Druid
- Thick Hide - now also reduces crits from spells.
- Feral PvP gloves - increases the duration of Bear Hug by 1 sec. (I originally typed Bear Huge, which would also be an awesome ability.)
- Feral PvP 2pc - Thick Hide now reduces the chance to be crit by 20%. This is in addition to the Savage Roar effect.
- Feral PvP 4 pc - Now also causes successful interrupts with Skull Bash to reset the cooldown of Enrage.
- Feral PvE 2pc - Redesigned. Now gives your finishing moves a 15% chance per cp to add a cp to your target.


Less control and not guaranteed, possibly a nerf to DoC, but a buff to HotW.

I wonder if the 0-pt SR -> PS bug could put a CP up on your target when out of combat.

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Re: T15 Set bonuses

Postby Tinderhoof » Fri Jan 18, 2013 7:37 pm

That would be funny.

I have been mentioning this on Twitter now, but I think DoC just took a hit here. It doesn't really hurt us per say, but we were going to get some help to smooth things out which has now be kinda taken away. It does help NV and HotW rotations by giving free extra combos. I can understand that using PS'd heals to give combo points didn't make sence to the other 2 talents, but I was kinda warming to the possiblities for DoC. At least give me some incentive to use PS at the right time instead of "BEFORE IT RUNS OUT!".

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Re: T15 Set bonuses

Postby aggixx » Fri Jan 18, 2013 8:22 pm

New 2pc is kind of "meh" design imo, especially that they decided to pick 15% as a value. Might as well reword it as "When you execute a 5pt finisher, you get 1 combo point back. Well, at least most of the time."
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Re: T15 Set bonuses

Postby Sorcerer » Fri Jan 18, 2013 8:48 pm

15% instead 20% feels like serious slap in the face. No sarkazm, for real. This is beyond retardness to make the rotation even shittier.

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Re: T15 Set bonuses

Postby Tinderhoof » Fri Jan 18, 2013 10:44 pm

It won't make it shitty cause it won't change the rotation at all. Just sometimes you will get an extra one. Sometimes. I mean it only happens when you do a finisher anyway so it won't really be wasted.

I agree it sucks to have something cool be kinda reduced and then nerfed so hard. An RNG set bonus gives one a kind of empty feeling.

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Re: T15 Set bonuses

Postby Etapicx » Sat Jan 19, 2013 3:23 am

That the bonus is 15% is a real **** block like really blizzard? Rng setbonus...
How would using Rake as CP builder affect the usage of DoC stacks for the DoT?
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Re: T15 Set bonuses

Postby aggixx » Sat Jan 19, 2013 8:13 am

Using Rake as a CP builder is pretty far from viable for DoC. You'd lose a ton of Rake DoT damage.
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