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DoC rotation

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DoC rotation

Postby Arctagon » Sat Jan 26, 2013 7:28 pm

I just started trying out the DoC rotation on dummies. For someone the DoC rotation is completely new to, I must say it's fairly complex and prone to lots of mistakes.

One thing I especially noticed was how often my energy gets capped because I need to use a GCD for the heal. Is this normal? I also noticed Rip and Rake being a lot more down, because I try to refresh them with DoC up (imagine you're about to cast HT being at 60+ energy, TF is about to come of cooldown, and on top of it all you get an OoC proc -- you're bound to waste time, energy or uptime of the bleeds).

With DoC I added a lot to the timers, so I've split them up into two now, since there are so many different things up at the same in those timers now that it takes longer to react.

Does anybody have any tips on making the rotation more simple to begin with, so it doesn't take so long to learn it? Me having Synapse Springs and an on-use trinket to watch the cooldown and usage of in addition to Berserk and Tiger's Fury, makes it very difficult to try and incorporate the DoC part while still maintaining optimal usage of all these cooldowns. Ignoring them completely didn't make it that much easier.

Also, is there any rule for when you can refresh Rake with cooldowns and procs up? I remember Mihir simmed 9 seconds or less to be optimal at least for TF, but that was quite some time ago. And is there anything else than crit procs that updates dynamically in regards to the bleeds?

Other than that, I want to try to avoid using Ovale or any move suggesters because I like using my own head rather than having an addon telling me what to do.

Lastly, is there any addon that displays uptime on things like bleeds, procs, buffs? As far as I'm aware Recount does not, and I'd like to see uptime primarily on my bleeds, so that I can analyse my fights without checking WoL, especially considering I don't want to log everything.

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Re: DoC rotation

Postby Tinderhoof » Sun Jan 27, 2013 5:13 am

I am pretty sure Recount does track up time on bleeds. However because Recount is such a resource hog and breaks all the time I use Skada. To access that info in Skada simply right click anywhere on main window. This will bring up a list of catagories. Select debuff uptimes. Click on your name and it will list all of the debuffs you applied turing the the combat including your Rake, Rip, and FF uptimes.

There will be some energy capping. This should mostly happen during the opening of Berserk. A few things you should take into consideration. It's really nice to have DoC buff every bleed you have. In reality you arn't going to get that lucky. If Rip is falling off and you have 5 combo points use em and keep Rip going. Don't hold because TF is coming off in 6 seconds. Though out the course of the fight you are going to buff a lot of Shreds with DoC. That is just the way it is. Now if you are getting close to having Rip come off cooldown and you don't want to refresh it early but you might energy cap using Thrash. This gives additional damage with out wasting combo points.

While you may be resistant to using Ovale, it's something you should really look into. There is lots of things happening that shift often. You don't have to become dependent on Ovale to use it to pratice with. I don't really know of any other short cut. Just takes a lot of practice.

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Re: DoC rotation

Postby Vami » Sun Jan 27, 2013 7:01 am

Practice helps, and Ovale is really handy if you want to get "a feel" of how to dps as a cat. Just dps a dummy with it for a couple of hours. I don't like using it elsewhere either, but it was worth it to practice 1-3 hours at a dummy and 1-3 raids with Ovale on. If you like challenges, DoC rotation is for you. If you want it easy, this is the wrong place to go. Also, everything Tinderhoof said.

About DoC, timers and tracking stuff, (especially refreshing Rake) this is what you want. If the ratio is 112 or higher for Rake, you overwrite it. (It's mentioned in some other threads, too, that if the stats you currently have would make Rake at least 12% better than the previous one, it is worth it to put a new one in.) DroodFocus addon helps you track everything, also bleed ratios (as does Ovale, too) but I've got a feeling that you might like this simpler look that Collie's Weakauras-mod gives. You should try DroodFocus, too, anyway.

If you have an on-use trinket, you should just macro it to one of you cooldowns (possibly TF, or if it's on 3min timer, Berserk), to use it as efficiently as possible. No need to track it separately, especially when you've got loads of other things to learn right now.

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Re: DoC rotation

Postby Arctagon » Sun Jan 27, 2013 10:04 am

Tinderhoof: Huh, I've never had any problems with Recount. I have heard that Skada is a much more lightweight version, though, so I will try it when it's time to update addons and overhaul my UI (which should be sometime this upcoming week when I get my new GPU and monitor).

I have indeed noticed that energy capping happens during the opening of Berserk, and also that a lot of the DoC buffs go to Shreds. I didn't know about the Thrash, though. Sounds like a good idea, since I've encountered that scenario a couple of times. Also, just to make sure, I still want to refresh Rip and Rake between their two last ticks even if the DoC buff is up, right? That is assuming the previous bleed is also buffed with DoC of course. Otherwise, when is it okay to refresh Rake if it will be better? Is it okay to refresh Rip any other time than in between the two last ticks? Basically, I'm not sure the refreshing rules are the same as with TF only.

Hm, I suppose I can try Ovale just to get a feel for the rotation while I practice. It seems to make the process a little quicker.


Vami: Oh, I love challenges. Otherwise, I would probably not have ventured into this to begin with.

Regarding the timers and tracking, thanks for the suggestions. Raffy seem to have produced results that disagree with the 1.12 ratio. It needs more looking into before anything is decided, but it's interesting: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=4498&view=unread#p15571 (last paragraph).
... I'm not very familiar with DroodFocus, even though I have heard about it in many different places. Currently I have something that tracks buffs and debuffs, and if I were to use the Weakauras mod for bleed ratios, I would have that covered too. What else does DroodFocus do?

Lastly, the on-use trinket I have have a one minute cooldown, and so does Synapse Springs. The problem is that once one of them is activated, the other one incurs a 15 second cooldown. I don't know why, but it prevents me from macroing them both to TF. I could macro one of them to TF and then use the other one manually.

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Re: DoC rotation

Postby Vami » Sun Jan 27, 2013 11:32 am

I haven't used DroodFocus myself that much, just tried it once, so I don't know much about that. If you've got all other tracking covered, I guess you don't really need it either. It just has many tracking possibilities specifically for ferals, so that's why it often is an easy option if you want to see your CDs, ratios, bleeds and all other stuff with the same addon.

Raffy's graph about bleed clipping sure looks interesting. It might be related to that refreshing rake with procs up will give you more ticks while buffed. If you wouldn't refresh it with procs up, it'd fall off and you'd need to apply a new one faster, probably without any procs up at all. At least that's what I've been thinking... Might really be worth studying.

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Re: DoC rotation

Postby Arctagon » Sun Jan 27, 2013 1:32 pm

I can probably try it out and see what it has to offer. I've really only been using RoguePowerBars, and it's been enough for me.

While I'm at it, is there any good and reliable Feral guide out there? I'm still not entirely sure what to do on several targets. Mihir rerolled monk, and Alarron hasn't updated the guide on the US forums since before MoP's release. I followed the latter to begin with, but I recently learned that that section is no longer true. It's always nice to have a guide you know is up to date, good and reliable to look at every now and then.

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